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OfflineAlan Stone
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Registered: 11/23/02
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Gender confusion or not?
    #3811731 - 02/21/05 05:42 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Last week I saw this documentary about four British kids who were convinced they were born in the wrong bodies, at least where gender is concerned.

Do you believe it's possible to be born into the wrong gender physically? Or is this a result of a disturbance in the children's self image, allowed today like people who manically undergo plastic surgery to achieve perfection are tolerated? Perhaps you have another take on it?


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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Re: Gender confusion or not? [Re: Alan Stone]
    #3813565 - 02/21/05 10:45 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Four kids convinced of something does not make it true : )

I would more quickly subscribe to the idea of this being caused by "a disturbance in the children's self image" then the idea that you can be born into the wrong body. This would indicate a gender predesposition before conception.

My bet is this. The larger the human population grows, the more and more... I hate to say, "abnormalities" in childhood development we are going to see.


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Invisiblefearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
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Re: Gender confusion or not? [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #3813801 - 02/21/05 11:19 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

if you have both an X and a Y chromosome, you are a dude


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Gender confusion or not? [Re: Alan Stone]
    #3814068 - 02/21/05 11:50 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I recently read a book called, "Lessons from the Intersexed."  It tells about what happened to children who are both with either BOTH or ambiguous genitalia.  Some of it is very sad...back then, doctors gave the parents an hour to choose their baby's sex for it, without being able to consult with counselors or anything.  Nowadays the problem is a little bit better, with advanced testing.  BUT some children are born with ambiguous genitalia and one side of their body x-y and the other side of their body x-x.  :frown:  So then a decision must still be made on what sex the baby actually is.  Many of these children grow up in a forced gender role without knowing why they feel so dissatified and depressed in their lives. 

It's very sad, and it still happens today. 

I personally don't believe that gender is just a matter of genital.


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OfflineMAGnum
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Re: Gender confusion or not? [Re: fearfect]
    #3814101 - 02/21/05 11:55 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I hear that some people are XYY or XXY etc.

And what TheShroomHermit said is totally correct, just because someone feels a cetain way does not make how they feel true. Then again, I am not one of those children so I don't know how they think.

The way I look at it, I am a man and I like girls. Homosexuality is all good as long as it is done out of true love and you aren't lying to yourself. Transvestite stuff is around only because we base female and male attire on cultural norms which hold ( for the most part in my culture) that men wear pants and women wear dresses. This doesn't at all mean that it is wrong for a man to dress like a woman or for a woman to dress or have facial hair (eeew) like a man.

Transgender stuff, though, confuses me. Maybe it is not me that is confused, but at any rate, people can do whatever they want. As long as it is out of love and not a lie it is fine by me. People who want to swap sexes seem not to like themselves as they are and think the answer is in the sex switch, I don't know if I agree on it, then again, I don't know much about it.

The question is, "does a sexchange make a transgender feel better about themselves?"


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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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Re: Gender confusion or not? [Re: fearfect]
    #3814175 - 02/22/05 12:10 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Have you heard of this?

A doctor makes a mistake during a routine circumcision. He ends up maiming the infant very badly. So badly so, that the parents decide to do to a sex change and supplement with hormones for the kids entire life. I would make this the exception to the rule.


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Anonymous

Re: Gender confusion or not? [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #3814237 - 02/22/05 12:21 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

jamie lee curtis (actress) was one of these cases. she was born like it, don't know exact details.

thought she was pretty damn attractive in true lies, at least a good body. now i feel all tingly inside and weird... HOLY SHIT!!! haha


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: Gender confusion or not? [Re: Alan Stone]
    #3814622 - 02/22/05 01:33 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Looking at it from a spiritual point of view many people say that the cause is that the individual was the opposite sex for many lifetimes and on this trip they came back as a different sex, thus the feeling of being a misfit. Or the person died young or tragically and rushed back incarnating as another sex rather than resting between lives and letting go of previous patterns.


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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Gender confusion or not? [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #3817274 - 02/22/05 04:41 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I would more quickly subscribe to the idea of this being caused by "a disturbance in the children's self image" then the idea that you can be born into the wrong body.



To be complete, I have to add to my original post.
Of the four children, one had less-than-perfect parents to start with. They spoiled their kid, allowing him to do whatever he wanted. When the kid said he wanted to be a girl like his twin sister, they accepted it like everything else. Then they proceded to change the birth certificate and birth records of the kid to match his new female name, and started hormone therapy at age seven. While still keeping an open mind, I have to raise the question whether anyone can truly know who they are at age seven, and whether you have a right as a parent to proceed with hormone therapy when your kid is seven years old. I don't know the answer, but in this case I would have personally decided to wait it out.

Furthermore, the documentary claimed 1/4 of "gender confused" children turned out to keep feeling this way, while 2/4 of them turned out to be gay or bisexual and the remaining 1/4 turned out to be comfortable in the bodies they were born in and heterosexual.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Gender confusion or not? [Re: MAGnum]
    #3817304 - 02/22/05 04:46 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

"does a sexchange make a transgender feel better about themselves?"

The answer to that one is as ambiguous as the answer to "does cosmetic surgery make a person feel better about themselves?".
Going by the numbers crunched in the documentary, I'd say "no" in 75% of the cases. After all, you probably won't be able to produce offspring. And I guess you can't expect to be turned back into your original gender.


--------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Gender confusion or not? [Re: Jellric]
    #3817331 - 02/22/05 04:50 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Looking at it from a spiritual point of view many people say that the cause is that the individual was the opposite sex for many lifetimes and on this trip they came back as a different sex, thus the feeling of being a misfit. Or the person died young or tragically and rushed back incarnating as another sex rather than resting between lives and letting go of previous patterns.



I would like to believe that, but I can't. I think part of the confusion may arise from the gender stereotypes that are inforced.
I.e. boys wear blue, play football/softball/baseball, play with tiny construction vehicles, trains and cars, while girls wear pink and play with dolls. A tomgirl might be described as being more boylike than girly, a boy playing with dolls might be described as being feminine. Perhaps to some fathers it's also easier to believe that their kid was born into the wrong gender than to admit they might be gay.


--------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Gender confusion or not? [Re: Alan Stone]
    #3821801 - 02/23/05 01:02 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

In order to be born into the wrong body, there would have to be "right and wrong" bodies, which seems kinda nonsensical to me.

Of course, there are various reasons that someone might feel this way. A gay man living in a homophobic society could easily feel like he should have been born a woman, particularly if he feels there's no place for him in society as a gay man.

I'm sure there are lots of other factors that could effect this.

That said, if someone feels that they would be happier as the opposite sex, and they're well informed of the risks and have thought the whole thing through, then there's no reason they shouldn't be able to have the surgery.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
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