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InvisibleEgo Death
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Perpetual motion
    #3808052 - 02/20/05 08:34 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Alledgedly it is impossible.

Although I've made a design I think could work. It consists of a wheel with magnets all around it. The magnets have all of the poles the same and face the same way. If a plastic circle with magnets was now placed around the wheel, with the opposite pole facing in, it has the potential to move.

When the wheel is spun it is propelled by the magnets until it meets the next when it all equals out and stops.

My theory is if you shielded the magnet (apparently there is no known block material), it would redirect the magnetic waves that stop the wheel from spinning leaving just the propelling force.

If this works, I would of successfully designed a perpetual motion machine (scientifically impossible based on current rules).

Sorry if this made no sense, I will try and draw the design!


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Offlinecb9fl
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Re: Perpetual motion [Re: Ego Death]
    #3808243 - 02/20/05 09:24 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

My theory is if you shielded the magnet (apparently there is no known block material), it would redirect the magnetic waves that stop the wheel from spinning leaving just the propelling force.


That makes no sense. It is the magnetic attractive forces that initiate movement. If the magnetic "waves" were blocked there would be not initiation of movement and further more no continuation of movement.


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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Perpetual motion [Re: cb9fl]
    #3808279 - 02/20/05 09:32 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Its hard to explain but as one magnet approaches the other it is counter acting the propelling force, ie The first magnet is propelled then the device stops because of the next magnet.

If the magnets were shielded on one side they could successfully propel in the same direction!


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Offlinecb9fl
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Re: Perpetual motion [Re: Ego Death]
    #3808430 - 02/20/05 10:07 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

It's not like one "side" of the pole is attracting while the other is repelling. All "sides" of the pole are attracting.


--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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InvisibleDieCommie
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Re: Perpetual motion [Re: cb9fl]
    #3808829 - 02/21/05 12:28 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I'm no Physicist but I think the biggest fault of your design is the "shielding" of the magnet.  According to Ampere's Law the source of magnetic field is moving electric charges, either through a circuit or around an atom.  The only way to shield a magnetic field is to provide electric charges moving in the opposite direction.  These two sets of moving charges will feel magnetic
force between each other.  So even if your device was operating in a vacuum, energy would still need to be consumed to "shield" the magnetic field.  Nice idea though, speculating about physics can be real fun  :wexican:


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: Perpetual motion [Re: DieCommie]
    #3809219 - 02/21/05 01:51 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

even if your device was operating in a vacuum, energy would still need to be consumed to "shield" the magnetic field.

so as long as your device had a constant supply of power, it would be a perpetual motion machine!

yep, just like they say, perpetual motion is impossible


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Offlinedaba
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Re: Perpetual motion [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3809719 - 02/21/05 05:19 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Sorry, this is impossible. Don't waste your time with it.

Look up: Lenz's Law.


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Fold for The Shroomery!


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Offlineoffmyrocker
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Re: Perpetual motion [Re: daba]
    #3810100 - 02/21/05 10:32 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Energy of a closed system must remain constant. So theoretically it is impossible, but here is an interesting website I came across while doing a study on the subject for school.
Supposedly the Johnson motor was denied patent by US in 70's. http://www.newebmasters.com/freeenergy/4151431-pg4.html
I also came across a page where german engineers claimed to have a perpetual motion machine capable of producing 20 kw that would be in production in the future. The picture looked like a cylinder with magents in it. Sorry can't find the page, but I think if it were true we would have all heard about it.


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Perpetual motion [Re: DieCommie]
    #3812718 - 02/21/05 07:57 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Yes, I know about all the *crap* regarding perpetual motion and I know the scietific laws of energy.

The thing is their is substance that diverts the magnetic force, carbon-graphite! It would not require a charge or extra field.


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InvisibleDieCommie
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Re: Perpetual motion [Re: Ego Death]
    #3812885 - 02/21/05 08:35 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

danoEoboy said: The thing is their is substance that diverts the magnetic force, carbon-graphite!  It would not require a charge or extra field.


Nope, when carbon is exposed to a strong magnetic field it produces a weak magnetic field in the oppisite direction.  The electrons in carbon rearrange their orbits slightly creating small persistent currents which oppose the external magnetic field.

Quote:

danoEoboy said:
Yes, I know about all the *crap* regarding perpetual motion and I know the scietific laws of energy.


  :lol:


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InvisibleLetto
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Re: Perpetual motion [Re: Ego Death]
    #3812926 - 02/21/05 08:44 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

You didn't come up with this idea. It's been around for a long time and I read a lot of listserv posts about it years ago. Try googling for the basic idea and you should find a diagram of what you're talking about.


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InvisibleZippoZM
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Re: Perpetual motion [Re: Letto]
    #3814276 - 02/22/05 12:26 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

youd have to use an electro magnet that generates its force from the spinning of the wheel. should take acre of the oposing force as the magnet approaches the other magnet...


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PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."


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InvisibleZippoZM
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Re: Perpetual motion [Re: ZippoZ]
    #3814282 - 02/22/05 12:27 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

i have thought of perpetual motion for a very long time, i was trying to figure out a way to incoroprate the earths rotation, and the motion of the planet through space to add extra energy...


--------------------
PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: Perpetual motion [Re: ZippoZ]
    #3815945 - 02/22/05 09:56 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

a electromagnetic generater which receives its energy from a giant pendulum.

Put gold coils on the weight of the pendulum and as slides left to right, between two magnet rails it will begin to generate electricity. There would have to be an initial force required to get get the pendulum to swing, and a threshold angle. But other than that, if engineered by a proper team could theoretically be perpetually in motion using the force of the Earths rotation.

:spliff:

----
Edit: What really looks promising is h2o splitting and photovolteic cells. Using a relatively low electric current you could zap water to a resonant frequency making it unstable, and use physical force to slam into the water causing it seperate (I think thats right).

And microscopic photovolteic cell's in paint, in our clothes, cars, etc... could seriously help with our impending energy problems.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



Edited by psyka (02/22/05 10:00 AM)


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Perpetual motion [Re: psyka]
    #3815967 - 02/22/05 10:07 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

> if engineered by a proper team could theoretically be perpetually in motion using the force of the Earths rotation.

However, the rate of the Earth's rotation will slowly decline as energy is transfered into the system... this is not a perpetual motion machine. (I once calculated an estimate of rotational energy in the Earth and it was a huge number. It would take the transfer of a lot of energy before a change in rotational speed could be detected.) Also, the pendulum will not only swing back and forth, but will cover a large circle over time.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleZippoZM
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Re: Perpetual motion [Re: Seuss]
    #3820173 - 02/23/05 01:01 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

true, but its probably as close as we are ever going nto get, somthing like this on a large scale could generate large amounts of electricity....


--------------------
PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: Perpetual motion [Re: ZippoZ]
    #3820740 - 02/23/05 03:10 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

youd have to use an electro magnet that generates its force from the spinning of the wheel. should take acre of the oposing force as the magnet approaches the other magnet...


I think you'd find that the amount of electricity generated by the electro magnet would not ultimately be able to overcome the friction in the wheel's axle. plus the motor would eventually wear out.


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OfflinekronnyQ
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Re: Perpetual motion [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3820915 - 02/23/05 05:07 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Daba is right, you have no idea how many people in this world have attempted to create a perpetual motion device, many of them a lot smarter than you.

Don't bother man it's not possible. When we clone Einstein then maybe we can consider it.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Perpetual motion [Re: kronnyQ]
    #3821599 - 02/23/05 12:07 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

> Don't bother man it's not possible.

Nor possible based upon our current understanding of physics, which happens to be far from complete.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: Perpetual motion [Re: Seuss]
    #3821983 - 02/23/05 01:45 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Nor possible based upon our current understanding of physics

true. however, shouldn't we look at the physics first, before attempting to build a PM machine?


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