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OfflineDeviate
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quick lesson on how to decode drug experiences
    #3807610 - 02/20/05 06:45 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

i've noticed that there seems to be a lot of confusion over the "meaning" of psychedelic experiences. now i don't pretend to any sort of authority on the subject at all but it bugs me when i see someone is who is much more experienced than i am claiming they haven't learned from their experiences. so i'd thought i'd explain my method of interpretation in the hope that it may work for someone else.

i think the key question to enlightenment is "who am i?" on any psychedelic (you needn't go any further than marijuana to try this) and even on non psychedelic drugs there are immediate changes to what people think of as themselves. for example on marijuana my personality changes, my body feeling changes, my opinions change, my mind changes, all the things i would normally associate with as myself change. what could this mean? it means that i can't be my body, i can't be my mind, i can't be my opinions, i can't be anything that can be removed from me by a drug or other means. if you lose an arm are you not still you? what is it that remains througout all these transient states i go through? am i not myself during sleep? who am i? no one at all, only being. this is why buddhists maintain there is no solid self, when you look for it it's simply not there. nothing that's transient can really be you so when you remove (or stop associating with) everything that is not you will be left with your inescapable essense, being, bliss. it's that simple. when you discover this so many other things that confused you before will make sense. but they are only secondary, you need only focus on finding out who the experiencer is behind everythng. heaven, hell, earth, none of them can exist without someone to go there. who is it that goes?

if you want a much more detailed explanation of this read any of the teachings of ramana maharshi. his teachings are mainly focused on this extremely simple concept, although he answers many other spiritual questions and basically describes reality in as best a way as its possible to do with language. he maintains that this is all anyone really need know. the reason drugs can be helpful is that they show you this right away, during normal consciousness you still change all the time but so slowly that you don't really notice it and so the illusion that you have an indivdual self is maintained.


Edited by Deviate (02/20/05 06:47 PM)


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: quick lesson on how to decode drug experiences [Re: Deviate]
    #3807690 - 02/20/05 07:04 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Again, I am going to say that you take out of an experience what you make of it, or perceive it....  I can't think that I am the only one to choose what I choose to think about when on anything, or nothing at all....  I can say that when psychedelics were the route to thought in the beggining of my "learning", it was very much "shock and awe", but I didn't relate it to Spirituality at all....  I just enjoyed the experience for what it was, an experience....  It was not until I started questioning, or looking for Spirituality before my chosen thoughts started focusing on it....  My thought process encompasses my whole life, weather I am psychedicized or not.... 

You *seem* to be caging the two individual experiences together....  If this is what you believe to be true, I can't argue with you....  They are your thoughts and ideas based on your experiences....  I just don't see it that way - thru my experiences....  Had I experienced all of it in a different way, I might see it in a different way now....

>^;;^<


:sun:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineGomp
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Re: quick lesson on how to decode drug experiences [Re: Deviate]
    #3807696 - 02/20/05 07:05 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

"if you look for One, you find One, that looks"
-Unknown :P


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Disclaimer!?


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: quick lesson on how to decode drug experiences [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3807728 - 02/20/05 07:12 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
Again, I am going to say that you take out of an experience what you make of it, or perceive it....  I can't think that I am the only one to choose what I choose to think about when on anything, or nothing at all....  I can say that when psychedelics were the route to thought in the beggining of my "learning", it was very much "shock and awe", but I didn't relate it to Spirituality at all....  I just enjoyed the experience for what it was, an experience....  It was not until I started questioning, or looking for Spirituality before my chosen thoughts started focusing on it....  My thought process encompasses my whole life, weather I am psychedicized or not.... 

You *seem* to be caging the two individual experiences together....  If this is what you believe to be true, I can't argue with you....  They are your thoughts and ideas based on your experiences....  I just don't see it that way - thru my experiences....  Had I experienced all of it in a different way, I might see it in a different way now....

>^;;^<


:sun:




it's not the 2 individual experiences that are important, its the continuity. when you are sober and then you get high, what is that continues on unaffected by the change and what is it that has changed?


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: quick lesson on how to decode drug experiences [Re: Deviate]
    #3807752 - 02/20/05 07:19 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Why not look as to why you are bugged? That is much more important to your growth than what is going on or not going on elsewhere.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: quick lesson on how to decode drug experiences [Re: Deviate]
    #3807764 - 02/20/05 07:21 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I can "decode" my drug experiences with a simple question: "Can I use this insight to better myself?" If no, then that insight is basically useless, and may be discarded. Or, sometimes I will later be reading something about string theory, or quantum mechanics, or something of that sort which corresponds to some insight I've had, in which case it's just useful reinforcement of that insight.


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Edited by Paradigm (02/20/05 07:32 PM)


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: quick lesson on how to decode drug experiences [Re: Deviate]
    #3807797 - 02/20/05 07:29 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Well, when you take any substance to change your consciousness, it essentially re-wires your brain to a different perception of what you are thinking OR experiencing....  It doesn't matter what the substance, or if there is a substance at all....    Some people use Meditation (another way of altering the consciousness) to obtain a different perspective of thinking....    Or one could find spiritualness in a dream or vision.... 

The only continuity is that there is no real continuity, unless you choose perceive to see it that way thru your experiences, or what you have been exposed to thru other's ideas in your lifetime....    Perhaps if something "clicks" with how you perceive something as it relates to an idea, you are more than likely going to keep that as fact - because you related to it....  The consciousness is a very inconsistant thing from person to person - when you break it down to the fine details.... 

>^;;^<


:heart:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: quick lesson on how to decode drug experiences [Re: Swami]
    #3807805 - 02/20/05 07:30 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Why not look as to why you are bugged? That is much more important to your growth than what is going on or not going on elsewhere.




i already know why i am bugged. it's because i'm used to looking outward for approval and reassurance, i'm afraid to take the final plunge inward. the idea that i could be more enligtened than people with much more psychedelic experiences scares me for some reason. but yes swami, you're absolutely right about that being more important my own growth.


Edited by Deviate (02/20/05 07:45 PM)


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: quick lesson on how to decode drug experiences [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3807878 - 02/20/05 07:48 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
Well, when you take any substance to change your consciousness, it essentially re-wires your brain to a different perception of what you are thinking OR experiencing....  It doesn't matter what the substance, or if there is a substance at all....    Some people use Meditation (another way of altering the consciousness) to obtain a different perspective of thinking....    Or one could find spiritualness in a dream or vision.... 

The only continuity is that there is no real continuity, unless you choose perceive to see it that way thru your experiences, or what you have been exposed to thru other's ideas in your lifetime....    Perhaps if something "clicks" with how you perceive something as it relates to an idea, you are more than likely going to keep that as fact - because you related to it....  The consciousness is a very inconsistant thing from person to person - when you break it down to the fine details.... 

>^;;^<


:heart:




yes i agree with that but for whom is the lack of continuity? my point is there must always be an experiencer and that experiencer is always the same even though everything else is in constant change. awareness is present through every experience.


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: quick lesson on how to decode drug experiences [Re: Deviate]
    #3808041 - 02/20/05 08:31 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

But, that awareness/perception is changed when changing the consciousness...  I guess if the experiencer was able to not be effected by the constantly changing surroundings (internal and external), then there would be continuity....  I would logically be forced to agree with that....  But does one stay un-effected by one's environment....?  That would depend on the perception of the experiencer.... 

When you say,  "the experiencer is always the same", in what way do you mean....?    I think that somehow I am changed and ever evolving thru every experience I have....  Life is experience....  But, that is my perception....  I would like to hear yours.... 

>^;;^<


:sun:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
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Re: quick lesson on how to decode drug experiences [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3808398 - 02/20/05 09:59 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
But, that awareness/perception is changed when changing the consciousness...  I guess if the experiencer was able to not be effected by the constantly changing surroundings (internal and external), then there would be continuity....  I would logically be forced to agree with that....  But does one stay un-effected by one's environment....?  That would depend on the perception of the experiencer.... 

When you say,  "the experiencer is always the same", in what way do you mean....?    I think that somehow I am changed and ever evolving thru every experience I have....  Life is experience....  But, that is my perception....  I would like to hear yours.... 

>^;;^<


:sun:




your mind is constantly being changed by experience and ever evolving but you are not the mind.  the mind is a bundle of thoughts that arise after the "I" thought from the ultimate reality that remains during sleep, waking and dream. it is simply being. it is the subject of all subject-object experience. when you find out who the subject is, all objects resolve into the subject. the reality that gives rise to the "I" thought is eternal and unchanging, byond the body, beyond the mind.


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