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OfflineZekebomb
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enlightenment through x
    #3802838 - 02/19/05 11:20 AM (12 years, 11 days ago)

where x = anything, anything at all.

what I'm saying, or asking, is: do I have to meditate to 'achieve enlightenment'? or follow some prescribed 'path' to enlightenment? or could I find enlightenment in, you know, a flower, or cooking a pizza, or playing baseball or whatever.

seems to me like if you were to do something fully, to the utmost of your ability... I don't know. anyone see Animatrix? that sprinter busts out of the matrix because he's sooo physically tip-top, he's trained so hard, his entire existence like a razor blade honed so directly towards one thing.

hmm, I just realized I'm not sure what I'm saying. discuss


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: enlightenment through x [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3802871 - 02/19/05 11:40 AM (12 years, 11 days ago)

I'm not sure how you define enlightenment. To me, that is something different from playing baseball or cooking a pizza.

I do think that playing baseball in full awareness and intensity (regardless of one's abilities), creating and cooking your perfect pizza, and really looking at and smelling the beauty of flowers can all be enlightening and meditative.

Being the "best" at something is rewarding yet generally punishing as well. Better to try your hardest yet still enjoy the fun of the activity. If it's not fun, unless you are committed to achieving gold, it may be time to find another activity.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: enlightenment through x [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #3802914 - 02/19/05 12:24 PM (12 years, 11 days ago)

Anything you do in full awareness is enlightening. Because it is not what you do, it is the full awareness. You are your self :wink:

The character in Animatrix broke free because he broke the natural laws. It ties in nicely with the movie imo.


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: enlightenment through x [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #3802948 - 02/19/05 12:39 PM (12 years, 11 days ago)

I'm not sure how you define enlightenment.

yeah, me neither.

I do think that playing baseball in full awareness and intensity (regardless of one's abilities)... can .. be enlightening and meditative.

I think that's pretty much what I meant. it ties in with a thread I made a couple days ago, about how meditation is only good for getting better at meditation. (not that I necessarily believe that's true, but I wanted to hear some opinions.) following that, baseball would only good for increasing baseball skills, pizza cooking only makes you better at cooking pizza, etc. but that isn't true, is it? there's always skill crossover. extending that, baseball could be the 'path' to enlightenment.

like, when people talk about the 'Path', and how far 'along the Path' they have made it, I feel like they are (or can easily be) limiting their possibilities for enlightenment.

whatever, we all have different definitions for the word 'enlightenment' so this discussion is, in a way, pointless. as is all discussion, in a way


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: enlightenment through x [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3803178 - 02/19/05 02:13 PM (12 years, 11 days ago)

something may one day tip the ballance of resistance to what is

or not

satori happens repeatedly to the same seeker at different times

so "what is enlightenment?"

one may glibly consider full awareness or other concepts - yet all of these efforts may "wind up the spring" yet not tip the ballance.

once tipped it needs be revisited as frequently as makes sense.


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OfflineTinTree
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Re: enlightenment through x [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3803194 - 02/19/05 02:23 PM (12 years, 11 days ago)

A great runner can be enlightened when he is running.
What about when he's not running?
The enlightenment that persists is the true enlightenment.


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"I'm afraid of losing my obscurity. Genuineness only thrives in the dark. Like celery."
- Aldous Huxley


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: enlightenment through x [Re: TinTree]
    #3803237 - 02/19/05 02:39 PM (12 years, 11 days ago)

nothing persits.
this persistent enlightenment would be an absolute concept, more akin to the static religions of the west than the fractally dynamic religions of the east.

however by cultivating one's garden one does create a special place

the very idea of a temple relates to something ready to be consecrated at any moment if you knwo what I mean


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OfflineTinTree
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Re: enlightenment through x [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3803264 - 02/19/05 02:52 PM (12 years, 11 days ago)

Perhaps persistent is not the right word.
Enlightenment that survives transfiguration.
Enlightenment in man running, enlightenment in man sitting and eating dinner, enlightenment in man drinking rum, enlightenment in man getting hit by bus.
To be mindful during one activity and mindless during others is not fruitful, such as those who rise from meditation so: 'thank goodness i can get up now! my back hurts so much from meditating! i wonder what i should cook for supper?'


--------------------
"I'm afraid of losing my obscurity. Genuineness only thrives in the dark. Like celery."
- Aldous Huxley


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: enlightenment through x [Re: TinTree]
    #3803407 - 02/19/05 03:42 PM (12 years, 11 days ago)

of course you can search for the unattainable and still benefit from the practice so I won't get too upset about fixation on survival of transfiguration.

but you see you did chop the man up into this and then that, rather than approach it as a varying day night seasonal curve with natural transitions and the essential element of continuity being of course
change


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: enlightenment through x [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3804640 - 02/19/05 10:27 PM (12 years, 11 days ago)

Why would you ask a group of unenlightened people how to attain enlightenment?

Notice how many of these same people can't wait to give you an answer.

If there is a gate, then it is YOUR gate and no one else can point it out.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: enlightenment through x [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3804667 - 02/19/05 10:33 PM (12 years, 11 days ago)

I'd say there's different kinds of enlightenment. You don't necessarily have to understand the true nature of reality in order to have an enlightened attitude, which I think can be achieved through simple observation and contemplation.


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OfflineTinTree
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Re: enlightenment through x [Re: Swami]
    #3804807 - 02/19/05 11:12 PM (12 years, 11 days ago)

True enough. I do not think anyone has said in this thread that X is the only path to enlightenment, and not Y, however.


--------------------
"I'm afraid of losing my obscurity. Genuineness only thrives in the dark. Like celery."
- Aldous Huxley


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OfflineMojo_Risin
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Re: enlightenment through x [Re: Silversoul]
    #3804843 - 02/19/05 11:22 PM (12 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
I'd say there's different kinds of enlightenment. You don't necessarily have to understand the true nature of reality in order to have an enlightened attitude, which I think can be achieved through simple observation and contemplation.




I think what your saying is similar to what i'm thinking:

Meditation - To be able to think about or of with thougths of great depht on possibliy, ability, and potential in relation to self, other(s), or thing(s).


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: enlightenment through x [Re: Mojo_Risin]
    #3805288 - 02/20/05 01:33 AM (12 years, 11 days ago)

I think that the path to enlightenment can be a path of thoughts and not necessarily a path of actions (although thoughts and actions are dependent on each other as is everything else). Also it doesn't matter which path you take as long as it ends at your desired destination.

This may be a forum full of "unenlightened" people, but we are all still walking our paths. Is it foolish to ask someone who is walking the same path as you for directions? "Tell me where you've been, tell me where your going! You've been wandering for a while, you probably know this path better than I do! Do you have any idea how to get to this place?"


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: enlightenment through x [Re: Swami]
    #3805688 - 02/20/05 03:27 AM (12 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Why would you ask a group of unenlightened people how to attain enlightenment?




I didn't. good point though. even if I did expect myself to 'attain enlightenment' by the time I die, I wouldn't expect this forum to really be of much help.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: enlightenment through x [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3806038 - 02/20/05 08:47 AM (12 years, 11 days ago)

how would you be able to tell?
someone once told me that the teacher, AKA the dharma, is everything


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: enlightenment through x [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3806068 - 02/20/05 09:29 AM (12 years, 10 days ago)

he told me too :wink:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: enlightenment through x [Re: dorkus]
    #3806231 - 02/20/05 11:47 AM (12 years, 10 days ago)

so the light is in everything?


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: enlightenment through x [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3806459 - 02/20/05 01:24 PM (12 years, 10 days ago)

In everything?
Or is everything?

If one consciously tunes in to be educated, education is what one gets? My brothers cat have taught me alot lately. Did not know he was that wise :smile:


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