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InvisibleNOS4A2
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Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 510
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can someone explain...
    #3800424 - 02/18/05 09:43 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

... why in a heavy trip, the mind tends to get stuck in a cirlcular pattern?

I have a friend who would ask where his GF was, then- where his shoes were(they were in the corner), then- scream out my name,then- repeat. He had no control over this phenomenon and to me it was very disturbing.


--------------------
Hail to the King, Baby
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Invisiblemecreateme
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Re: can someone explain... [Re: NOS4A2]
    #3800473 - 02/18/05 09:53 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The world that we call reality is just that, a circular pattern. Have you not noticed it before. Many things happen, over and over and over again. Such as the sun rising and setting. Wake then sleep then wake. Get up, Hi Mom, Hi Dad, Hi little Johnny, did you sleep well? Eat, go through the day, sleep, wake. That is what the world of illusion, or maya, the same thing over and over again. Only by using psychedelic drugs can you see the real illusion that you are in, in your waking life. Perhaps there is a way to break the pattern. That is what some say, but if there was, wouldn't it have already happened? Has it always been, or not, are we no where or now here...Ponder that one.


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No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.

You are everything's way of feeling itself.

Happy Schwag, everygodly!


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InvisibleNOS4A2
Sh!tApple

Registered: 07/22/04
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Re: can someone explain... [Re: mecreateme]
    #3800519 - 02/18/05 10:05 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

You know I just realized, when I was a little kid I did ponder such things quite often. I was a single child, with a single mother who had to work all the time, and I spent a lot of time alone thinking to myself silently in my head. Now that I am middle aged and life is so busy, I don't stop to think anymore. Abstract thinking was something I used to be proud of being capable of doing. Now I need to get that back. It may help my attitude durring the trip. Waiting to see what it wants to show me.

But the loophole thing definitely can be scarey when you just want to be rid of it. It always seems to come out when a group is tripping.


--------------------
Hail to the King, Baby
CulturingTech


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Invisiblejux
I'm better thanan STD!

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 924
Re: can someone explain... [Re: NOS4A2]
    #3801140 - 02/18/05 11:55 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The problem is that you believe there is this "I" and that this I "wants"
When you accept that there is no I to want, then the one we call you will dispell the illusion of want
when the illusion of want is dispelled, one is not frightened by events that they do not want, for there are none that are wanted, and hence none that are unwanted
Desire nothing, seek nothing, gain everything, Go shrooms!


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Invisiblemecreateme
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Re: can someone explain... [Re: jux]
    #3802205 - 02/19/05 02:41 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Nicely put.


--------------------
No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.

You are everything's way of feeling itself.

Happy Schwag, everygodly!


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Offlinedjd586
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Re: can someone explain... [Re: mecreateme]
    #3802466 - 02/19/05 04:46 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Seems like with psychedelic eperiences, the mind always tries to connect a "begining to and end". And that doesn't seem to exclude the process of thought.


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InvisibleNOS4A2
Sh!tApple

Registered: 07/22/04
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Re: can someone explain... [Re: djd586]
    #3803314 - 02/19/05 03:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

OK you guys talk amongst yourselves cause obviously you don't really want to help me at all. You're all just getting a big boner outta hearing yourselves make plays on words. Sorry, I don't buy it. I hear the message behind your words, but you really oughta cut the crap. Baffle him with bullshit, right? I got assholes PM'ing me and telling me I'm a dope and here you guys are trying to tell me you're better than me. LOL. What did I expect? Asking a bunch of drug users for spiritual advice. What a joke. Sorry to those of you who were sincere, but your friends, they are eating you alive! Take a bite outa that one, you hacks. And post counts don't impress me. So take em and shove them in a dark place. Get off the computer and try to bring yourselves back to earth. hehe


--------------------
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Offlinelemon_lw
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Re: can someone explain... [Re: NOS4A2]
    #3803384 - 02/19/05 03:35 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

well nos no need to get harsh on people. i understand what your saying about it being disturbing cause the first time i experienced a this event i freaked a little bit. im sure you talked to your friend about this and in his trip he doesnt remember doing any of the things you describe, am i right? and if you look back on it you two had talked about everything he was looping. now you know what a level 5 can be like and you can prepare for it better. so this loop is the way things are, there is no changing it so just let it be. just remember that in the end everything was fine. if you hit level five your body will do crazy things but inside the mind is a different story, inside you will be having a great lesson learned if that is what you are looking for, or a blast if that is what you want, and if it is a bad setting you will have a bad trip. so if you want to exerience a level 5 trip again just remember that the mood/mindset is very important. sorry if you find this all to be more meaningless words. but step back a second and look. you just got mad at some people on the internet for trying to help, first off its on the internet so how can that even get you flustered and second off they did nothing wrong. so chill. peace.


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In the belly of the Leviathan, one can either despair and perish, or be cheerful and persevere.-Dean Koontz


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OfflineBardonic
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Re: can someone explain... [Re: NOS4A2]
    #3803477 - 02/19/05 04:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Hi there my friend,

I?m afraid I can?t give any kind of scientific explanation for this phenomenon of looped thought and I don?t think there is anyone on the planet who can. We just don?t know enough about the brain; it?s the most mysterious object in the universe!

I can offer wild speculation however, in the hope that it will at least provoke a little discussion.

I recently experienced this looping thought pattern whilst lying in silent darkness on 60 grams of fresh. My mistake was not to tell one of my housemates I was tripping. Throughout a good portion of the trip I found myself repeatedly worrying about her coming in the room. I kept wondering what I would say and what would happen. I am a person who has always tripped alone and feels uncomfortable around sober people while under the influence.

If one thinks of psychology in terms of circuits then maybe we could come up with some model for this looping business. By circuit I suggest that all thought patterns do loop eventually but maybe psychedelics shorten the time it takes to do this by redirecting it in some way. If we imagine that any particular thought (which can be equated to nerve impulses for the purposes of this idea) has a number of points or nodes to visit as it branches throughout the cortex and that each of these nodes is considered an important place for the impulse to pass through in normal waking consciousness for the thought to be meaningful and relate to the outside world. Now bear with me here, in a deep psychedelic state the number of worldly, material concerns is diminished and one is instead aware of whole nature of reality without these normal everyday values related to perception, action and reaction. So instead of the thought being conducted throughout the usual neural structures that relate to things in the world, these structures are bypassed and the thought takes a new shorter route through the nervous network. Instead of completing its normal cycle, it takes a fraction of a time and the circuit completes it?s self much before it should do. So the impulse is more or less connected back to its origin and an incredibly fast cycle occurs. This may manifest in consciousness as a though loop.

Maybe some kind of short circuit happens.

This has happened to me before when on shrooms although not quite in the way I think you mean. On one particular occasion my pleasure circuit became a kind of closed feedback loop and to cut a long story short I was laughing my arse off in complete bliss for about an hour.  :crazy2: Now that was a good trip!! I learnt a lot after wards about the emptiness of pleasure and pain too.

Or maybe it?s just a cause of extreme short term memory malfunction on a subconscious level. If one supposes that conscious thought is motivated by an undercurrent of subconscious desires, if the mechanism of subconscious memory or value network is fucked in some way, then conscious thought patterns will reflect this.

Yes I?m quite aware that this is mostly bullshit but hey I felt like trying to help you out!

Please tear this to pieces guys!  :wink:


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Invisiblemecreateme
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Re: can someone explain... [Re: NOS4A2]
    #3803680 - 02/19/05 05:07 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Wow, you just lost all credibility in my eyes, NOS.
See it how you want, but I think you may need to learn how to read. The mushroom experience is fraught with paradox and if you are too dense to realize it, thats your problem. Everything stated in this thread is just an individuals view on what is going in your dilemma. Only trying to help, guess next time I won't dirty your threads with my posts cause you don't seem to even want to give it a thought. Maybe you are not the type of person who should be tripping. That is how it sounds to me.

Yes it is very disturbing, but it is the way reality is. The type of cryptic post that you complain about is one of the only ways to address this paradoxical nature of the mushroom experience. :sun:


--------------------
No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.

You are everything's way of feeling itself.

Happy Schwag, everygodly!


Edited by mecreateme (02/19/05 05:50 PM)


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OfflineBardonic
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Re: can someone explain... [Re: mecreateme]
    #3803727 - 02/19/05 05:18 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Right that's fine boyo!  :smile:

It's OK tho you can't offend me.
I think maybe your just a child?
I was just trying to offer a starting point, a little input. I thought maybe somebody would offer some proper critisism to my post, after all that's how we learn.

I did even say in my post that this was wild speculation and I know that my words hold little truth. I'm quite aware of that. I suppose your the one who doesn't read.

No hard feelings from me though:

It's just such a frosty welcome from you that's all

I'm new here and I'm sorry if anything I said offends you, really. I may have been incredibly ignorant of something, and if that is the case please accept my apologies.

Can't we be friends?


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OfflineBardonic
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Re: can someone explain... [Re: Bardonic]
    #3803742 - 02/19/05 05:22 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

hmmm it appears I may have been mistaken and that you were not replying to my post. If that is the case: javascript:void(0)
:lipsrsealed:


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Invisiblemecreateme
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Re: can someone explain... [Re: Bardonic]
    #3803773 - 02/19/05 05:32 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Of course it is the case.
How can we be friends if we are already?
Damn dude, just chill, everything is cool.
However that Nos guy worries me, he seems to have a thick head, perhaps Nos really needs a monster dose like 10 grams to break his head open so he can see the way more of us do. And the differnce truly is in the eye of the beholder, and no one can help you see that but yourself and maybe some of those little children that NOS thinks are eating us alive?
Snicker. Snicker. :rolleyes: :crazy2: :mushroom2: :sun:


--------------------
No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.

You are everything's way of feeling itself.

Happy Schwag, everygodly!


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OfflineBardonic
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Re: can someone explain... [Re: mecreateme]
    #3803787 - 02/19/05 05:39 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah sorry man, I have to admit I didn't beleive that somebody could be that intolerant!


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Invisiblemecreateme
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Re: can someone explain... [Re: Bardonic]
    #3803820 - 02/19/05 05:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah that seems fucking insane doesn't it but there are people like that everywhere all the time. They live their life like that, ooooo creepy. :eek:


--------------------
No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.

You are everything's way of feeling itself.

Happy Schwag, everygodly!


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InvisibleNOS4A2
Sh!tApple

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 510
Loc: notfarfromtheshittree Flag
Re: can someone explain... [Re: mecreateme]
    #3804150 - 02/19/05 07:53 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Thank you Bardonic for the great reply! I can't solve these questions, especially a simple innocent question like this, with the "cryptic" puzzle type explanations I've been getting. I just wanted someones rational biological explanation for the phenomenon, maybe I should be clearer in the wording. I wasn't real happy with losing my cool, but I am more of a scientific type of thinker, I want to know the mechanical reasons for why things happen. It is my nature. And I appologize if I hurt any ones feelings, I just wanted more. And that PM I got from that jackass really set me off. Disreguard that last PM mecreateme. Now you know what I was expecting hopefully. I am very serious about understanding what is happening to me on tripps so I can better be prepared, not more confused. I just need different wording. Does that have to mean I am less intelligent? I want physical explanations right now. I'll deal with the spiritual stuff when I am certain I can go through a heavy trip and come out in one piece physically. That is the first of my hurdles, what is it doing to my mind and body. Also, I am not extremely good at expressing myself on a keyboard (alway hate english class) so please accept my appologies and don't think I'm to big of an horses ass. Maybe, more of a baboon sized ass.:P
NOS


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Invisiblemecreateme
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Re: can someone explain... [Re: NOS4A2]
    #3804322 - 02/19/05 09:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The physical things are spiritual too. That does not make you less intelligent at all.

You should just put some more thought into your posts. It may seem like some of us are giving cryptic answers, but they are truly just deep statements that only with the right trip outlook do they take on the deep meaning. Similar to many religious and mystical writings.

The nature to know how things work mechanically can get you into trouble. But you already talk of your mishaps while tripping. A mindset like you are looking for the underlying thing can lead you to some negatice mindsets. The hidden variable, magic finger, which controls all life, does not want to be known because when it is, the game is over. And who ever liked to see the Game Over screen? I think what you are asking was answered in my first post. Is it not mechanical that all you see, hear, smell, touch, is a circular pattern that goes on, and on, and on. Sounds as mechanical as any machine, they call it the human biocomputer.


--------------------
No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.

You are everything's way of feeling itself.

Happy Schwag, everygodly!


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InvisibleNOS4A2
Sh!tApple

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 510
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Re: can someone explain... [Re: mecreateme]
    #3804927 - 02/19/05 11:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

So are you telling me that the more I know how they affect my body the more potential for bad tripping or the lack of a need to trip any more? Like I'm going into tripps expecting my experience to go a certain way? But it's not going to. Right? Ignorance is bliss type thing.


--------------------
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CulturingTech


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Invisiblejux
I'm better thanan STD!

Registered: 04/06/04
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Re: can someone explain... [Re: NOS4A2]
    #3805178 - 02/20/05 12:56 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

You'd feel better during the trip if you'd let go of this need to understand what is going on. The knowledge of what is going on at the chemical/physical level will not negatively effect your trip, but trying to find an answer where none are to be found can be frustrating. And mushrooms, often acting as emotional amplifiers, would make this frustration immensely worse than it was before.

Sorry if my previous post didn't help you, but it was not intended as intellectual masterbation, only trying to help you. The message I was trying to get across to you was to let go. let go of you, let go of want, let go of reason, logic, insight, self. If you don't let go, you'll be ripped apart.


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OfflineBardonic
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Re: can someone explain... [Re: mecreateme]
    #3805735 - 02/20/05 03:47 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Would you reccomend John Lilly's book, for info about this subject?
I hope to get my hands on a copy soon


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