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Offlineummikko
sika joka eilenn? on pelkk?sika

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 1,222
Loc: Finland
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
What can I do to help a friend quit opiates?
    #3797180 - 02/18/05 06:13 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Any suggestions are welcome.

I really want to help him, but I'?m not sure if he wants to be helped.
It's getting difficult to even get in contact with him, he usually won't answer his phone. When I see him he says that he's been ill but he's okay now, though I can see he's not.  :confused:


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"All substances are poisons; there is none which is not a poison. The right dose differentiates a poison and a remedy." -Paracelsius


Edited by ummikko (02/18/05 06:27 AM)


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OfflineLocus
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Re: What can I do to help a friend quit opiates? [Re: ummikko]
    #3797203 - 02/18/05 06:38 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Well, this is a difficult subject. If he doesn't want to be helped and get off them himself, then there is no way to help him. I'm not sure if you can actually do anything until he decides for himself to get clean. Hmmm, I really don't know man.. sorry. I mean you can try telling him things are just going to get worse and worse if he stays on them and all that kind of stuff.. but I doubt he'll go for any of it until he wants to get off. I suppose all you can do is be there for him and only try* to help until he actually wants help.


--------------------

The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity. ~ Albert Einstein
"Fear is the great barrier to human growth." ~ Dr. Robert Monroe



~~~*Dosis sola facit venenum*~~~

*Check my profile to listen to my music* :smile:


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Offlineummikko
sika joka eilenn? on pelkk?sika

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 1,222
Loc: Finland
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: What can I do to help a friend quit opiates? [Re: Locus]
    #3797287 - 02/18/05 08:04 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks.
He wants to quit, but he wants to do it on his own, and he's cheating himself and not realizing it. He's been trying to quit for 6 months now without any success, just makes new (unrealistic) plans that keep failing. The main problem, I think, is that he's unwilling to believe that he can't quit by himself.


--------------------
"All substances are poisons; there is none which is not a poison. The right dose differentiates a poison and a remedy." -Paracelsius


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OfflineWiserGod
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Registered: 02/17/05
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Re: What can I do to help a friend quit opiates? [Re: ummikko]
    #3797631 - 02/18/05 10:59 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

it depends what type of opiates he's on
when my friend was on heroin we made him give up the hard way.
we basically locked him in his room for six weeks and guarded the door so he couldnt get out and we just fed him meals it wasnt easy for him but it was succesful


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OfflineWiserGod
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Re: What can I do to help a friend quit opiates? [Re: WiserGod]
    #3797634 - 02/18/05 11:00 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

by the way he didnt want to give up smack either but we forced him to because we thought it was the best thing to do for our friend. he hated us for it but hes been off smack for 5 years now and he realises it was the best thing for him and he appreciates what we did for him


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OfflineTrespasser
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Re: What can I do to help a friend quit opiates? [Re: WiserGod]
    #3798253 - 02/18/05 02:04 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

My suggestion is that you look up some organization consisting of former users who have managed to quit and now offer support for others who are in need of help. I don't know about your countries take on methadone treatment, but for many, that have very helpful.

/ Martin


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InvisibleHeavyToilet
The Heaviest OfThem All
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Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 9,458
Loc: British Columbia
Re: What can I do to help a friend quit opiates? [Re: ummikko]
    #3798263 - 02/18/05 02:06 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Handcuff him to some very large object in his home so he wont be able to get away.

Then bring him food and water when he needs it.


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OfflineLocus
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Re: What can I do to help a friend quit opiates? [Re: ummikko]
    #3799501 - 02/18/05 06:46 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Well that's better, that he says he wants to quit.. but it's not going to happen until he gets realistic about it. Yeah you could do something drastic like the others have said and lock him in a room and guard the door or something but who's to say he wont just go and get more after that is all over. that depends on the person and what they want most. you could also try to convince him to go to rehab or something. but ultimately all of that stuff depends on him. it's time for him to think realistically and take realistic actions to get off.


--------------------

The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity. ~ Albert Einstein
"Fear is the great barrier to human growth." ~ Dr. Robert Monroe



~~~*Dosis sola facit venenum*~~~

*Check my profile to listen to my music* :smile:


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OfflineWiserGod
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Registered: 02/17/05
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Re: What can I do to help a friend quit opiates? [Re: Locus]
    #3800088 - 02/18/05 08:39 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Locus said:
who's to say he wont just go and get more after that is all over.




after a after a harsh-scale comedown/withdrawal experience as described above comes into play i expect most 'newbie' heroin addicts  can easily be dissuaded from the pollution of the sinful influence which they had previously allowed to manifest within themselves...

...a hardcore smackhead is a different matter.

if you really want to get your friend off smack then the afore mentioned techniques are the way to go...and if the technique doesnt work and he still wants smack then there is really nothing you can do to help...he is beyond redemption. he must be discarded in order to be allowed to follow his own path...

harsh but true :confused:


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OfflineLocus
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Re: What can I do to help a friend quit opiates? [Re: WiserGod]
    #3800124 - 02/18/05 08:46 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

i wouldn't say soley one harsh withdrawal will be the deciding factor.. usually it takes more, pretty much always. but that's not the point i was conveying anyway, im just looking at each possibility and what is most likely.


--------------------

The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity. ~ Albert Einstein
"Fear is the great barrier to human growth." ~ Dr. Robert Monroe



~~~*Dosis sola facit venenum*~~~

*Check my profile to listen to my music* :smile:


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InvisibleMOTH
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Registered: 06/06/03
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Re: What can I do to help a friend quit opiates? [Re: WiserGod]
    #3800161 - 02/18/05 08:53 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

WiserGod said:
it depends what type of opiates he's on
when my friend was on heroin we made him give up the hard way.
we basically locked him in his room for six weeks and guarded the door so he couldnt get out and we just fed him meals it wasnt easy for him but it was succesful




Wow, that must have been hell. For everyone.

You're a good friend for doing that though. Glad it worked out.


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OfflinePsillyNilly
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Re: What can I do to help a friend quit opiates? [Re: MOTH]
    #3802250 - 02/19/05 02:51 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Im not sure if going cold turkey is always the best option. For hardcore addicts who has a huge tolerance, the withdrawls can sometimes be so intesnse, that tapering off would be a better method. Not only for comfornt issues but if you just take them off totally, there are cases where the lungs restrict eyes become pinheads etc.... (A doc has told me this but dont pass the previous statement off as fact) I dont know his condition nor am I in a position to say what should be done but sometimes intervention is the only option. If it can be controlled, I say try to step him down off the opiates rather then going cold turkey all together.


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Invisiblecricket
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Re: What can I do to help a friend quit opiates? [Re: PsillyNilly]
    #3810397 - 02/21/05 12:18 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Ever heard of Ibogaine? I'ld like to learn more about it.


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I tried to leave my signature but it didn't work...
By the way... Does anybody know how to get sharpie markers off of a computer screen?


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Offlineummikko
sika joka eilenn? on pelkk?sika

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 1,222
Loc: Finland
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: What can I do to help a friend quit opiates? [Re: cricket]
    #3810949 - 02/21/05 02:39 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Yes. I think it's been tried in Holland. Hard to come by in Finland though.

erowid ibogaine vault


--------------------
"All substances are poisons; there is none which is not a poison. The right dose differentiates a poison and a remedy." -Paracelsius


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: What can I do to help a friend quit opiates? [Re: ummikko]
    #3811648 - 02/21/05 05:24 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

The root of a plant called "Kill my pain" is inner sorrow. Find out what he calls sorrow and help him out of it. The opiates will find their way out of his life at the appointed time.

:sun:


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InvisibleHeavyToilet
The Heaviest OfThem All
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Re: What can I do to help a friend quit opiates? [Re: ummikko]
    #3811664 - 02/21/05 05:27 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Ibogaine is legal in Canada I believe. Might be able to get someone to ship it out.


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OfflineLocus
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Re: What can I do to help a friend quit opiates? [Re: World Spirit]
    #3813397 - 02/21/05 10:06 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, that would also be a good idea.

Really have a good talk with him if you can. Find out what he is escaping by using.


--------------------

The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity. ~ Albert Einstein
"Fear is the great barrier to human growth." ~ Dr. Robert Monroe



~~~*Dosis sola facit venenum*~~~

*Check my profile to listen to my music* :smile:


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OfflineStonedShroom
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Re: What can I do to help a friend quit opiates? [Re: ummikko]
    #3813524 - 02/21/05 10:37 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

"What can I do to help a friend quit opiates"

nothing, sadly.

I know it hurts to watch someone you care about abuse themselves, but there will come a point when they hit rock bottom. Rock bottom is different for everyone, for some it's just like losing a boyfriend/girlfriend- for others it could be living on the streets for 10 years.

only thing I can suggest is not making it an escalated issue everytime he's around. I mean, we've all had to deal with an annoying person who thinks smoking pot is bad and tries to preach at you and nags constantly. Just be a good friend, don't treat him like scum- if you scold it'll make him ashamed and hide it around you. the more trust between you he's likely to come to you when he's really ready to kick the habit.


--------------------
We are not human beings going through a temporary spiritual experience.

We are spiritual beings going through a temporary human experience.



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Offlinemonoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

Registered: 09/07/02
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Re: What can I do to help a friend quit opiates? [Re: ummikko]
    #3815679 - 02/22/05 06:48 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

In my experience with this issue,people don't quit any kind of drugs (or any other kind of addictive behavior for that matter),unless they really want to, without force or coercion.Then they will usually seek that help themselves. People just have to be there for them when they're willing to change.

I don't know why your friend is abusing opiates,and maybe he doesn't either. I think some people's brains just don't work properly and they need outside assistance from chemical substances to even things out. They just tend to overdue it by using too much too quickly (i.e. too much of a percieved good thing) That's the way I feel about opiates for myself. I think my brain just doesn't process natural opiate like chemicals properly or something. I never had problems with any other drugs,but since I was little kid,about the age of ten,I noticed painkillers where the only things they made me feel right for once. The constant anxiety and depression that I felt went away,even if for a short few hours.


For years and years I chased a high. A series of events changed my life that showed me I couldn't get high anymore. However,I also felt like living completely drug free was worse than death,it just wasn't an option either.

Finally I saw an addictions specialist in psychiatry that knew what he was doing. Medical science has finally started to understand what some addicts have known for years,that their brains need certain chemicals to operate properly. With that in mind,I started getting a drug called buprenorphine. It doesn't really get me high,but I feel right for once and I have no cravings for opiates. Buprenorphine is a wonder drug in my opinion.

I'm still on drugs,but at least I get them legally from a doctor. I don't have to spend all my time chasing a high that interferred with my life. I take my meds twice I day,and I get on with my life. I see it as like a diabetic sees insulin or something.

Tell your friend to read about buprenorphine (brand name Suboxone and Subutex). It's not the drugs themselves that ruins lives,it's just hard to lead any kind of fufilling life when you're trying to score half the time and the other half you're just nodding out. The threat of overdosing is very real too. If he gets bupe from a doc,he won't have to worry about those things at least anymore. It's a lot better than trying to score street dope.


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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams


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OfflineLocus
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Re: What can I do to help a friend quit opiates? [Re: monoamine]
    #3815909 - 02/22/05 09:36 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

is it easy to get bupe..?


--------------------

The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity. ~ Albert Einstein
"Fear is the great barrier to human growth." ~ Dr. Robert Monroe



~~~*Dosis sola facit venenum*~~~

*Check my profile to listen to my music* :smile:


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