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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
and fell

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 537
Loc: MI
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
Kick-ass party in Fallujah
    #3796813 - 02/18/05 03:15 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

02/17/05 - - IT WAS the smell that first hit me, a smell that is difficult to describe, and one that will never leave me. It was the smell of death. Hundreds of corpses were decomposing in the houses, gardens and streets of Fallujah. Bodies were rotting where they had fallen-bodies of men, women and children, many half-eaten by wild dogs.

A wave of hate had wiped out two-thirds of the town, destroying houses and mosques, schools and clinics. This was the terrible and frightening power of the US military assault.

The accounts I heard over the next few days will live with me forever. You may think you know what happened in Fallujah. But the truth is worse than you could possibly have imagined.

In Saqlawiya, one of the makeshift refugee camps that surround Fallujah, we found a 17 year old woman. "I am Hudda Fawzi Salam Issawi from the Jolan district of Fallujah," she told me. "Five of us, including a 55 year old neighbour, were trapped together in our house in Fallujah when the siege began.

"On 9 November American marines came to our house. My father and the neighbour went to the door to meet them. We were not fighters. We thought we had nothing to fear. I ran into the kitchen to put on my veil, since men were going to enter our house and it would be wrong for them to see me with my hair uncovered. "This saved my life. As my father and neighbour approached the door, the Americans opened fire on them. They died instantly.

"Me and my 13 year old brother hid in the kitchen behind the fridge. The soldiers came into the house and caught my older sister. They beat her. Then they shot her. But they did not see me. Soon they left, but not before they had destroyed our furniture and stolen the money from my father's pocket."

Hudda told me how she comforted her dying sister by reading verses from the Koran. After four hours her sister died. For three days Hudda and her brother stayed with their murdered relatives. But they were thirsty and had only a few dates to eat. They feared the troops would return and decided to try to flee the city. But they were spotted by a US sniper.

Hudda was shot in the leg, her brother ran but was shot in the back and died instantly. "I prepared myself to die," she told me. "But I was found by an American woman soldier, and she took me to hospital." She was eventually reunited with the surviving members of her family.

I also found survivors of another family from the Jolan district. They told me that at the end of the second week of the siege the US troops swept through the Jolan. The Iraqi National Guard used loudspeakers to call on people to get out of the houses carrying white flags, bringing all their belongings with them. They were ordered to gather outside near the Jamah al-Furkan mosque in the centre of town.

On 12 November Eyad Naji Latif and eight members of his family-one of them a six month old child-gathered their belongings and walked in single file, as instructed, to the mosque.

When they reached the main road outside the mosque they heard a shout, but they could not understand what was being shouted. Eyad told me it could have been "now" in English. Then the firing began. US soldiers appeared on the roofs of surrounding houses and opened fire. Eyad's father was shot in the heart and his mother in the chest.

They died instantly. Two of Eyad's brothers were also hit, one in the chest and one in the neck. Two of the women were hit, one in the hand and one in the leg. Then the snipers killed the wife of one of Eyad's brothers. When she fell her five year old son ran to her and stood over her body. They shot him dead too. Survivors made desperate appeals to the troops to stop firing.

But Eyad told me that whenever one of them tried to raise a white flag they were shot. After several hours he tried to raise his arm with the flag. But they shot him in the arm. Finally he tried to raise his hand. So they shot him in the hand.

The five survivors, including the six month old child, lay in the street for seven hours. Then four of them crawled to the nearest home to find shelter. The next morning the brother who was shot in the neck also managed to crawl to safety. They all stayed in the house for eight days, surviving on roots and one cup of water, which they saved for the baby. On the eighth day they were discovered by some members of the Iraqi National Guard and taken to hospital in Fallujah. They heard the Americans were arresting any young men, so the family fled the hospital and finally obtained treatment in a nearby town.

They do not know in detail what happened to the other families who had gone to the mosque as instructed. But they told me the street was awash with blood. I had come to Fallujah in January as part of a humanitarian aid convoy funded by donations from Britain.

Our small convoy of trucks and vans brought 15 tons of flour, eight tons of rice, medical aid and 900 pieces of clothing for the orphans. We knew that thousands of refugees were camped in terrible conditions in four camps on the outskirts of town.

There we heard the accounts of families killed in their houses, of wounded people dragged into the streets and run over by tanks, of a container with the bodies of 481 civilians inside, of premeditated murder, looting and acts of savagery and cruelty that beggar belief.

Through the ruins That is why we decided to go into Fallujah and investigate. When we entered the town I almost did not recognise the place where I had worked as a doctor in April 2004, during the first siege.

We found people wandering like ghosts through the ruins. Some were looking for the bodies of relatives. Others were trying to recover some of their possessions from destroyed homes.

Here and there, small knots of people were queuing for fuel or food. In one queue some of the survivors were fighting over a blanket.

I remember being approached by an elderly woman, her eyes raw with tears. She grabbed my arm and told me how her house had been hit by a US bomb during an air raid. The ceiling collapsed on her 19 year old son, cutting off both his legs.

She could not get help. She could not go into the streets because the Americans had posted snipers on the roofs and were killing anyone who ventured out, even at night.

She tried her best to stop the bleeding, but it was to no avail. She stayed with him, her only son, until he died. He took four hours to die.

Fallujah's main hospital was seized by the US troops in the first days of the siege. The only other clinic, the Hey Nazzal, was hit twice by US missiles. Its medicines and medical equipment were all destroyed. There were no ambulances-the two ambulances that came to help the wounded were shot up and destroyed by US troops.

We visited houses in the Jolan district, a poor working class area in the north western part of the city that had been the centre of resistance during the April siege.

This quarter seemed to have been singled out for punishment during the second siege. We moved from house to house, discovering families dead in their beds, or cut down in living rooms or in the kitchen. House after house had furniture smashed and possessions scattered.

In some places we found bodies of fighters, dressed in black and with ammunition belts.

But in most of the houses, the bodies were of civilians. Many were dressed in housecoats, many of the women were not veiled-meaning there were no men other than family members in the house. There were no weapons, no spent cartridges.

It became clear to us that we were witnessing the aftermath of a massacre, the cold-blooded butchery of helpless and defenceless civilians.

Nobody knows how many died. The occupation forces are now bulldozing the neighbourhoods to cover up their crime. What happened in Fallujah was an act of barbarity. The whole world must be told the truth.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8093.htm


--------------------
If you want a free lunch, you need to learn how to eat good advice.


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InvisibleSoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst

Registered: 11/13/04
Posts: 1,690
Re: Kick-ass party in Fallujah [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #3796826 - 02/18/05 03:19 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

How were people who were told to evacuate and had centers in which to evacuate to "trapped"?


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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Kick-ass party in Fallujah [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #3797236 - 02/18/05 07:01 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

any crack pot with a website could of wrote this. I'm having trouble believing some of it.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: Kick-ass party in Fallujah [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #3797358 - 02/18/05 08:54 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

FrankieJustTrypt said:
But they were spotted by a US sniper.

Hudda was shot in the leg, her brother ran but was shot in the back and died instantly.





This makes me question the whole thing. The article never says they identified an American sniper. It says the sniper spotted them. But how do we know the sniper that shot at them was American? If this was an American he would have been trained for months through boot camp to be comfortable under stress. Then he would have been selected for his marksmanship and go through many more months of training for advanced marksmanship. They expect me to believe that a civilian identified an American sniper from an unknown distance away. You know if THEY identified HIM, then he would have had a shot on all of them. and if HE was shooting at them, they'd all be dead. Psht.

I say they were shot at by insurgents.


Edited by YidakiMan (02/18/05 11:58 AM)


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
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Re: Kick-ass party in Fallujah [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #3797370 - 02/18/05 09:05 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I just read through that site and it is nothing but an political editorial.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
and fell

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 537
Loc: MI
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
Re: Kick-ass party in Fallujah [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3798083 - 02/18/05 01:21 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

The article definitely isn't written by a republican, or even a boot-licking democrat. And while the uneccessary sentiment is easy to pick out, I still think that Fallujah has turned into the new My Lai.

What are you gonna do with a whole city that doesn't want you there? Easy, kill indiscriminately until they realize you are boss, whats the problem?


--------------------
If you want a free lunch, you need to learn how to eat good advice.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
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Re: Kick-ass party in Fallujah [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #3798137 - 02/18/05 01:35 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

What are you gonna do with a whole city that doesn't want you there? Easy, kill indiscriminately until they realize you are boss, whats the problem?




the poblem is that that probly never happened and that whole website is an opinion peice.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
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Registered: 01/26/01
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Re: Kick-ass party in Fallujah [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #3798233 - 02/18/05 01:58 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

If this was an American he would have been trained for months through boot camp to be comfortable under stress



I literally laughed out loud when I read this...envisioning a drill sargeant yelling at his troops to have "happy thoughts" while at war.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: Kick-ass party in Fallujah [Re: Rono]
    #3798239 - 02/18/05 02:00 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Every bootcamp documentary I've seen has a drill sargeant interviewing aside, telling the film crew the best way to simulate combat stress is to get in their face and yell like hell.


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Kick-ass party in Fallujah [Re: YidakiMan]
    #3798250 - 02/18/05 02:03 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

YidakiMan said:
Every bootcamp documentary I've seen has a drill sargeant interviewing aside, telling the film crew the best way to simulate combat stress is to get in their face and yell like hell.




I was in the forces for 4 years...I know all about boot camp.
I can assure you that getting yelled at does not make you 'comfortable' under stress.

the purpose of the yelling is to slowly break down any chance of you having an independant thought.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Edited by Rono (02/18/05 02:06 PM)


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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
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Re: Kick-ass party in Fallujah [Re: Rono]
    #3798322 - 02/18/05 02:23 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

That's right, boot camp is basically a brainwashing experience.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Kick-ass party in Fallujah [Re: Rono]
    #3798342 - 02/18/05 02:26 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)


I was in the forces for 4 years...I know all about boot camp.

Canada has a military? Were you the only member?


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Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
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Re: Kick-ass party in Fallujah [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3798365 - 02/18/05 02:31 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

1) NO FLAMING ...if you can't state your case or refute someone elses case without calling them "stupid" or an "idiot"..etc...Then don't bother posting here. This forum is for intelligent debate, not to try to belittle someone that doesn't think like you. THIS WILL BE STRICTLY ENFORCED ... If you have been warned already, you will receive a temporary ban, if you continue to flame you will be banned permanently...choose your words wisely or suffer the consequences.


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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Kick-ass party in Fallujah [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3798410 - 02/18/05 02:41 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Canada has a military? Were you the only member?




When you're as good as me, that's all you need.  :smirk:

and for the record...We've never lost a war. :tongue:


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
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Re: Kick-ass party in Fallujah [Re: Rono]
    #3798438 - 02/18/05 02:47 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)


When you're as good as me, that's all you need.

Did you get military leave to go marry your hypothetical foreign wife?

:rotfl:


and for the record...We've never lost a war.

Touche.  But we Americans fight a lot more than you Canadians do, so we experience more victory and more defeat as a matter of course.


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Invisibleblacksabbathrulz
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Re: Kick-ass party in Fallujah [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3798522 - 02/18/05 03:07 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Oh the humanity, all the poor civilians that had 3 months to evacuate.....


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Kick-ass party in Fallujah [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3798536 - 02/18/05 03:10 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Touche. But we Americans fight a lot more than you Canadians do




Ahh...we can only hope to achieve that kind of 'greatness'


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Kick-ass party in Fallujah [Re: Rono]
    #3799313 - 02/18/05 06:10 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)


Ahh...we can only hope to achieve that kind of 'greatness'

That's a great attitude to have!  You Canadians should keep "reaching for that rainbow".  :grin:


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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
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Re: Kick-ass party in Fallujah [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3799716 - 02/18/05 07:23 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I think its sad to see how a thread about a tragic event turns into a joke. IT seems that no one really wants to listen or acknowledge what happened in Fallujah. typical reaction: "nah, that can't be true, you're sources must be wrong...hey lets go eat something".

All of this doesn't surprise me much though. I've seen some crazy reports on TV, with american snipers actually shooting at red cross doctors who were holding they're papers up with a white flag. They were being shot at, the americans didn't want the doctors to go and help out the injured victims.

Soldiers can easily go on a wild shooting rampage once they're used to the war environment, shooting becomes fun, do any of you guys remember Vietnam?? might as well admit right now that the same atrocities have been happening in iraq...anywyas, time will tell us who's really right, and how you're really wrong..that is unless the american army has successfully learned to cover up their massacres since vietnam.

Madness


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Kick-ass party in Fallujah [Re: exclusive58]
    #3801004 - 02/18/05 11:29 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)


I think its sad to see how a thread about a tragic event turns into a joke. IT seems that no one really wants to listen or acknowledge what happened in Fallujah. typical reaction: "nah, that can't be true, you're sources must be wrong...hey lets go eat something".

You're right. It is a serious thread that got derailed into a joke. It shouldn't have happened.

I don't know how to look at Fallujah. Obviously it was an insurgent stronghold. However, it still is a city where civilians live. In that situation it would be difficult to determine how much force to use and where to use that force. It is quite possible and probable that some U.S. soldiers screwed up and did some things they shouldn't have.


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