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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Mind take flight!
    #3796451 - 02/18/05 01:39 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

So we know some people are considered to have their heads off in the clouds. We know some people feel they belong down on the ground.

Clouds=Bad
Ground=Good

Why do we all have to have our heads down on the ground? How can you ride light particles and discover relativity if you can't leave the ground?

Are we under attack or something? Is it safer down here? :confused:

The only reason we are is because of gravity. Mass and things with weight are drawn down to the ground by it.

If a persons mind is down on the ground, would it not then be heavily ladened and or very dense to be able to be there?

Is this good?

I've realized so many dreams come true from having my head in the clouds and its been awesome. I also realize that I can perform tasks and manage responsibilities with my physical body while my head is lightened and up in the clouds. The air is fresher and more crisp, the view is grand and everything is so tiny.

Down low on the ground, I see creepy crawlies and dirt. Going under ground is interesting. Many gems and gold and pretty sparkly valuable things are buried deeply beneath it's surface. To find them, again, you are not on the ground anymore, you are digging deep beneath it.

High above the surface, the earth looks so pristine, vast, clean, safe and beautiful and unblemished. From up there, anything can be conceived to take place down on it.

While on it, you can't see very far and the details become distracting from the bigger picture.

Things that look so tiny from up above become much larger when down on the ground. What was once a tiny stick becomes a giant tree that could crush you.

Whats so much better about having your mind down on the ground then up in the clouds?

I'm beginning to think its some cliche said by people who haven't soared like the birds.

Of course, it can be said that being down on the ground is where reality is taking place and its where we are realistic.  So the mouse down on the ground from the birds eye view is less real or less attainable from the view up above it?

Weather you are eye to eye with the mouse or 50 feet over it, the mouse is just as real to you or the bird. If you want the mouse, you can reach out and grab it. If the bird wants the mouse, it can swoop down and grab it and take it back up and away to a cliff.

So whats the problem for the bird?

Thinking through it lately, I think the notion of having your head out of the clouds and down on the ground is overrated.

Have you ever noticed how its never a problem for the person who has their head in the clouds and its only a problem to the people around them with their heads on the ground?

When one has their head up in the clouds, they are so happy and problem free and everything appears clear and simple to them and they see so much more others don't and cant, save the small details, which usually just serve as visual distractions and are manifestations of complication.

Go ahead and give it your BEST argument for what one with their head on the ground can do that one with their head in the clouds can't (remember the body is still on the ground and in physical reach of everything down here) and why having the head down on the ground all of the time is better and how its better?

Whats the advantage because I don't really see it? I've had my head on the ground and when there it pretty much just sucks by comparison.
Tell me please what I may be missing because everytime, I come down, I can't find it.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineCaptainJailew
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Registered: 11/10/04
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Re: Mind take flight! [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3796482 - 02/18/05 01:43 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I don't think it is fair to simply slice a group into two and name them the clouds and the clods (like dirt, get it?) it seems like there would be room to be in both situations, and that permutation is what you talk about with your "body on the ground head up there" stuff. When people are truly dreamers, they devote their lives to their dreams- which means their bodies are in the clouds as well.

You can dream big and still live by a simple, structured and pragmatic means, there is no reason (IMO) the two are mutually exclusive.


--------------------
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" - Albert Einstein



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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Mind take flight! [Re: CaptainJailew]
    #3796601 - 02/18/05 02:09 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I agree so I don't see why some want to take one away from the mix.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Mind take flight! [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3796632 - 02/18/05 02:18 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Why?
Ask a DJ why certain music is no good for dancing.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Re: Mind take flight! [Re: Sclorch]
    #3796669 - 02/18/05 02:29 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Ask a good dancer what music they could not move with?


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Mind take flight! [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3796688 - 02/18/05 02:38 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
Ask a good dancer what music they could not move with?




By "move" I assume you mean "groove". Epileptics and slugs move... but they don't groove. And you also said good dancer...

Church hymns, Creed, white power music (sorry, I can't think of names), The Mars Volta... to name a few.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Re: Mind take flight! [Re: Sclorch]
    #3796727 - 02/18/05 02:46 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

By move, I meant become the physical expression of the music through movement.

What is the argument here for what one can do with their head on the ground one with their head in the clouds can't? If, you can think of something, "any cloud head can swoop down for a closer look and stay there for as long as they like and the body is there to do anything just the same, so I can't"

Or what also is the argument for having your head on the ground ALL of the time being the best way to be out of this music analogy?

I want a good example or reason I havn't considered or missed for the advantage of keeping your head on the ground all of the time and out of the clouds.

Are you inviting me to go dancing with you? You know, we live close together.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Invisiblep4kSouL
Animals Are Cool
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Re: Mind take flight! [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3796765 - 02/18/05 02:57 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

i think anyone should put there mind were ever they want too as long as it makes them happy. there is no point to live on this earth without happiness and love. if you don't like the ground swoop to the clouds. i personally hate the dirt.


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Mind take flight! [Re: p4kSouL]
    #3796957 - 02/18/05 04:13 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I can't argue, but I do have comments, or specific additional thoughts....    :smile:

Quote:

Have you ever noticed how its never a problem for the person who has their head in the clouds and its only a problem to the people around them with their heads on the ground?

When one has their head up in the clouds, they are so happy and problem free and everything appears clear and simple to them and they see so much more others don't and cant, save the small details, which usually just serve as visual distractions and are manifestations of complication.




Even those small details *can* be noticed (I bring a pair of binoculars with me when up amongst the clouds....)  :grin:  As a practical purpose and without getting specific about my job, thinking in the clouds actually allows one to see thru those "cloudy manifestations of OVERcomplication" to **see** a SIMPLE solution to a complex problem that is otherwise an accepted form of "wasting time/effort" for no other reason than to follow "procedure"....  A procedure written by too many different people at too many different times....  The "grounded" people see it is a problem, learn to live with it (with the occasional weak complaints), and slowly but surely add to that very problem one clump of dirt at a time.... 

(Generalizations sympathetic to my specific perspective...)  (I CAN do that....!  :grin: )
There are 1)Passive and 2)Opposing ways of adding to a complex procedural problem itself.... 
1)By adding bits of defined complexity to "**bandaid" problems within the complexity itself.... 
2)By not following the EXACT ROUTE of the defined procedural complexity.... 
(**"Bandaid", not to be confused with "Fixing"...)  :wink:

Both give rise to much wasted effort.... 
:shake:  For shame, for shame....  :shake:

How did it get that way you ask....?    Very very slowly.....    For the resistance to change in itself from the safety of familiarity is a saddening CURSE of "the grounded"....    This I have seen all to clearly....  Aaahhh to make them see how I see, much much effort, and many painted pictures of the same scene of simplicity....  Ohhh, I WILL make them see....    :smile:

They will never be able to appreciate the "bird's eye view" as I see it....  BUT, they will see the 2-Dimensional schematic representation of it for what it is, and will slowly grow to accept it in time after much apprehension.... 

:::::Fingers tightly crossed:::::

:grin:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: Mind take flight! [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3797104 - 02/18/05 05:06 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Why do we all have to have our heads down on the ground? How can you ride light particles and discover relativity if you can't leave the ground?

How many car accidents have you had (or caused)?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Re: Mind take flight! [Re: Swami]
    #3797884 - 02/18/05 12:33 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Swami,

I thought through it and your argument supports my experience. That's cool! My mind started taking flight around age 24 as the ground level started sucking for me. I was very grounded in material physical reality prior to that.

At age 21, leaving work at 4 in the morning, we had had a bad ice storm while in work I didn't know about. The main roads out had been salted and all was well. I took a side street that was quicker which "hadn't been salted yet. Someone pulled out in front of me and spun out and I tapped on my breaks and went into a fish tail I couldn't bring under control and smashed into a concrete wall. The ice was an inch think.

That was the only accident I was in as a driver, and then when at the epitome of my being on the material ground level in life. I'm 36 now and haven't come close to an accident since nor a traffic ticket. Not only that, as a passenger I have helped drivers avoid accidents by seeing what they didn't.

Remember my analogy for a mind on the ground being pulled down by being heavily laden or dense. That mind is to preoccupied with heavy things or closed in to catch the bigger picture.

Thanks for your additions pk4soul and TomCat!

I will still consider any arguments if you can think of another swami. Like I said, I don't see the advantage or why others say its the way to be, head on the ground all of the time that is.

Life experience has shown me the advantage with it up in the clouds.

I want to know why people say its better on the ground. :shrug:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleSinbad
Living TheMoment
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Re: Mind take flight! [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3797942 - 02/18/05 12:49 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

If we are not living, 'on the ground' in our physical bodies, working with our negatvity and everyday experiences of body, speech and mind, then it becomes very difficult to be present and aware of our human condition. People who spend there lives living with there heads up in the clouds, are just attempting in vain to escape the reality of our human condtion.

Escapism is not beneficial as it denies the neagtive aspects of our nature in exchange for the comfort of not having to deal with ourselves in any concrete way. Responsiblility for our lives is essenital if we are ever to find happiness, as our actions of body, speech and mind have an impact on others as well as ourselves, we must be aware of this!

The hippies tried this, and discovered, as you will, that it doesnt deal with the root cause of our suffering to bring about lasting happiness. Avoidance is'nt a viable option on any spiritual path.


--------------------


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Re: Mind take flight! [Re: Sinbad]
    #3797969 - 02/18/05 12:57 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Sinbad,

I asked for an argument that says what one with their head in the clouds can NOT do that one with their head on the ground can. One in the clouds can swoop down at any time it may be neccesary to get in closer.

I also said that with head in clouds, I can take care of all of my responcibilities in the physical and do.

You made zero argument about being responcible. I find I am even more efficient with my responcibilities with my head hovering high over ground.

here's another point you flat out missed. People with their head in the clouds are NOT suffering people because of it. Remember my anaology about a wieghted mind being pulled down to the ground. A weighted mind that is heavily laden or dense produces suffering, not a light one.

Please, give me an argument if you actually have one. So far, you have supported my original post.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Mind take flight! [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3798078 - 02/18/05 01:20 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Are you being present and aware in your physical body. By being up in the clouds, do you mean, generally in high spirits, or living in a fanstasy world? Im sure there are many posts on this forum that can teach you the benefit of being in reality rather then a fantasy world.

In the immediacy of death, which person do you think would fair better. A person who knows the truth of their being and lives soley in th reality of that state, or somebody who has been living in a fluffy fantasy land of their own creation all ther lives, oblivious to the workings of their own body and mind?

Always being aware and observant of ones experiences of body, speech and mind, is essential for any real spiritual progress to be made with the individual. This become difficult if the person is soley living within a fantasy world created within there minds, and completely ignores the body - mind connection, which a vital awareness for one to have, as when one is too involved with their mind, this becomes a very one sided, unbalanced experience of life. Balance is essential for peace.

Its the same for one who it completely involved with there body, and believes that this is who they are, this is also an unbalanced view, which rejects the other aspect as unimportant or trivial.

Body and mind are two sides of the same coin.


--------------------


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Mind take flight! [Re: Sinbad]
    #3798228 - 02/18/05 01:56 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Remember, I said the bird 50 feet up can still see the mouse down on the ground and swoop in for it if it likes. The bird is seeing the same reality up in the air that you are on the ground.

The bird that can only walk would say it is fantasy to the bird in the air who says he can grab 300 mice in a day. The bird on the ground can't see as far and all of the mice around him so he thinks its bullshit.

The bird in the sky can fly around and see shit loads more he can go get. Of course it looks like fantasy to the bird on the ground who can not see the abundance of them.

The bird that can fly and see from above will efficiently catch mice with ease and live fullfilled. The one on the ground has to work hard to find a few an may suffer from fatigue and hunger at times.

As far as your imminent danger example question goes? The bird that can fly wins hands down. If a cougar that loves to eat birds is in the area, who has a better chance of becoming aware of spotting its presence first? The bird that can fly or the one on the ground? Who will be better able then to get their body to safety away from the cougar before it can pounce? The one who sees it first from a distance of course.

Keep trying to find an argument if you can.

Consider something Sinbad. Being grounded within the body is not the same as being grounded on the ground. The subtle energy bodies are free to fly while being connected and in communication with the physical body. Think of the knowledge and awareness of the bodies one has to have to be able to use them all together.

Our bodies can have the advantages of the bird while being physically on the ground when the mind takes flight. People living beyond suffering know this. Suffering people are the ones without a grounding connection between the physical body and the sky. A mind on the ground that is heavily ladened, preoccupied with the distractions of details and or dense can't see solutions to end the suffering.

To them, the rest with their heads in the clouds are living in a fantasy land. Indeed they are and its real for the one in it.

You're funny, on the one hand you talk about who can better escape from danger (good) and on the other, you do not advocate a quick and easy retreat from needless suffering (bad). Whats the difference? I see them as both being good and ideal.

Keep trying if you come up with something. Being mentally on the ground just sucks by comparison and I think its for suckers unless someone can show me otherwise.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Mind take flight! [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3798412 - 02/18/05 02:42 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

To realize the value of having one's head in the clouds, look at the price of good view property as opposed to no view property.

The reason people pay more to be up above and looking out/down is that it is spiritually satisfying. That, and a southern exposure with good sun has a magic all it's own. Weather, planes, clouds, sun, sunset, it's all there with the right location. You just feel better to have experienced it.

A body in the clouds has a mind in the clouds.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Edited by LunarEclipse (02/18/05 02:47 PM)


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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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Re: Mind take flight! [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3798457 - 02/18/05 02:51 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

It's a play on words. You're taking advantage of the fact that many words have multiple meanings.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Re: Mind take flight! [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #3798542 - 02/18/05 03:11 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

The it should be very easy for you to come up with an argument for why its best to keep your mind down on the ground all of the time and how it is one in the pent house can't come down when they want to.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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