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 JesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
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 Re: The P.C. police strike again  [Re: shroommachine]
#3806363 - 02/20/05 10:53 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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We started letting women vote around a century ago.
Look what happened. World Wars, prohibition, rising crime, etc.
We let women into the work force in the last century and have seen wages steadily decline.
Lets take the prohibition of the drug alcohol. They only got that through because they had already sent the men off to war so they couldn't vote. That would have never passed if the young drinking men were stateside. Bitches. Prohibition was the event that truly organized crime in this country, and orgainized crime has been with us ever since. Blame women. Bitches.
I am all for not beating them unless they really deserve it, but I think the whole idea of women's suffrage goes way too far.
The problem reflects itself in the women of today. You should see the things I have to do to make love to my wife. The foreplay involves jumping through so many hoops I feel like a damned circus animal. I don't know who gave them the idea that they have a right to be satisfied, but that guy was an asshole.
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Tastes just like chicken
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 RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: The P.C. police strike again [Re: JesusChrist]
#3806645 - 02/20/05 12:38 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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I am all for not beating them unless they really deserve it
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Re: The P.C. police strike again [Re: RandalFlagg]
#3822136 - 02/23/05 12:26 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Harvard Chief Likens Women to Nazis, Saves Job
by Scott Ott
(2005-02-22) -- In a last ditch effort to save his job, Harvard University President Larry Summers today compared female professors of math and science to Nazis, in a fashion reminiscent of Colorado Professor Ward Churchill's characterization of 9/11 victims.
"Female math and science professors form a technocratic corps at the very heart of America's global financial empire," Mr. Summers said, paraphrasing Mr. Churchill. "These little Eichmanns drive the mighty engine of profit to which the military dimension of U.S. policy has always been enslaved ? and they do so both willingly and knowingly."
The Harvard faculty greeted the statement with a standing ovation, after which the faculty senate voted down a motion demanding Mr. Summers' resignation.
"Harvard has always been a bastion of intellectual freedom," said one unnamed female science professor. "If Ward Churchill can enjoy the liberty to call stock brokers little Eichmanns, then we support Larry Summers right to do the same to us. After all, we teach the people who go on to make the bombs and to pay for them. We have an intrinsic aptitude to do so."
The faculty senate then approved a motion "condemning all female Harvard faculty members for their role in all of the illegal, immoral, imperialistic wars America has fought since 1945 when Harvard appointed its first female instructor in basic sciences."
link: http://www.scrappleface.com/MT/archives/002080.html
Phred
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Vvellum
Stranger
Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
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Re: The P.C. police strike again [Re: RandalFlagg]
#3822373 - 02/23/05 01:14 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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I can tell you havent actually read the essay that Churchill wrote, only the AP and Reuters (and other) press reports. There was no celebration of 9-11; as written in the first paragraph, he simply reiterated Malcolm X's phrase within the context that the 9-11 attacks were the "chickens coming home to roost." How is this celebration? Whether it is true or not, is irrevelent, he simply put forth his thoughts and people like yourself called for his censorship/firing because you disagreed and were offended.
But anyways, I agree with Phluck and Tao. You are inconsistant with your notion and advocacy of free speech.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: The P.C. police strike again [Re: Vvellum]
#3822482 - 02/23/05 01:36 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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people like yourself called for his censorship/firing
Read my posts again.
I didn't call for his firing or censorship. I gave my opinion that he was a scumbag and I think that the University board has a right to get rid of anybody that they don't want around.
9-11 attacks were the "chickens coming home to roost." How is this celebration?
He compared innocent civilians to Nazis. That part of his essay seemed to almost revel in the idea that these people died and they deserved it.
But anyways, I agree with Phluck and Tao. You are inconsistant with your notion and advocacy of free speech.
No, I'm not. Anybody is allowed to say anything they want to in this country. I recognize that and agree with that right.
I was not disgusted by his disagreement with American foreign policy. I was disgusted that he insinuated that innocent civilians deserved to die merely because they happened to be office workers in Manhattan.
There is a big difference between proposing a theory and condemning slain innocent civilians as Nazis.
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Vvellum
Stranger
Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
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Re: The P.C. police strike again [Re: RandalFlagg]
#3822555 - 02/23/05 01:52 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Colleges such as the University of Colorado cannot legally fire someone for expressing themselves in writing. Even employees have 1st Amendment rights. The Board would expect a lawsuit and would most likely lose the case.
Professors can be fired for such things as dereliction of duty and sexual harrassment and being convicted for felony acts, but a professor (and especially a tenured professor as Churchill), cannot be fired for expressing ideas.
Quote:
I was not disgusted by his disagreement with American foreign policy. I was disgusted that he insinuated that innocent civilians deserved to die merely because they happened to be office workers in Manhattan.
There is a big difference between proposing a theory and condemning slain innocent civilians as Nazis.
He never said they deserved to die, he merely [and in his own words] pointed "..out that if U.S. foreign policy results in massive death and destruction abroad, we cannot feign innocence when some of that destruction is returned. I have never said that people 'should' engage in armed attacks on the United States, but that such attacks are a natural and unavoidable consequence of unlawful U.S. policy." There is a difference.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: The P.C. police strike again [Re: Vvellum]
#3822589 - 02/23/05 02:00 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Colleges such as the University of Colorado cannot legally fire someone for expressing themselves in writing. Even employees have 1st Amendment rights. The Board would expect a lawsuit and would most likely lose the case.
I was not looking at it from a 1st Amendment standpoint. I view it in this way:
The University of Colorado board should(I didn't say they did) have the right to get rid of anybody they want to. It is their job to safeguard the reputation of the University, ensure continued alumni contributions, and keep the taxpayers of Colorado(who are paying a lot of the bills) happy. In my opinion, in order to do those things they should be able to do whatever they want to. If that means hiring or firing someone, then so be it.
You're right...it is quite probable that Churchill cannot be fired. I think the University should have that right. Just like Harvard should have the right to get rid of their President if they so desired.
What the Harvard President said was just a theory. What Churchill said was more offensive and baseless than it was a theory. Those are my opinions.
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 18 years, 10 months
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Re: The P.C. police strike again [Re: Tao]
#3822596 - 02/23/05 02:01 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
TaoTeChing said:
Excuse me but weren't you the one posting article after article about that professor who said something 'un-p.c.' about 9/11 victims and refused to apologize or recant?
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 18 years, 10 months
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Re: The P.C. police strike again [Re: RandalFlagg]
#3822602 - 02/23/05 02:04 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Whatever. Talk about being selective. You try to defend this guy for his sociological studies regarding women that are deemed politically incorrect. When a professor makes a politically incorrect statement about 9-11, you're holding his feet to the fire.
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Vvellum
Stranger
Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
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Re: The P.C. police strike again [Re: RandalFlagg]
#3822606 - 02/23/05 02:05 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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what you distinguish as either "baseless/offensive" and merely "theory" is originates in your own bias.
oh, just a little point: Colorado taxpayers only pay 7% of U of C funding. the rest is private investment and tuition costs. The university is hardly indebted to the taxpayers so much so they must fire controversial, tenured professors.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: The P.C. police strike again [Re: Vvellum]
#3822654 - 02/23/05 02:17 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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He never said they deserved to die, he merely [and in his own words] pointed "..out that if U.S. foreign policy results in massive death and destruction abroad, we cannot feign innocence when some of that destruction is returned. I have never said that people 'should' engage in armed attacks on the United States, but that such attacks are a natural and unavoidable consequence of unlawful U.S. policy." There is a difference.
He said a lot more than that.....
Here is an excerpt from his essay:
As to those in the World Trade Center . . .
Well, really. Let's get a grip here, shall we? True enough, they were civilians of a sort. But innocent? Gimme a break. They formed a technocratic corps at the very heart of America's global financial empire ? the "mighty engine of profit" to which the military dimension of U.S. policy has always been enslaved ? and they did so both willingly and knowingly. Recourse to "ignorance" ? a derivative, after all, of the word "ignore" ? counts as less than an excuse among this relatively well-educated elite. To the extent that any of them were unaware of the costs and consequences to others of what they were involved in ? and in many cases excelling at ? it was because of their absolute refusal to see. More likely, it was because they were too busy braying, incessantly and self-importantly, into their cell phones, arranging power lunches and stock transactions, each of which translated, conveniently out of sight, mind and smelling distance, into the starved and rotting flesh of infants. If there was a better, more effective, or in fact any other way of visiting some penalty befitting their participation upon the little Eichmanns inhabiting the sterile sanctuary of the twin towers, I'd really be interested in hearing about it.
I reapeat.....this is what he said:
If there was a better, more effective, or in fact any other way of visiting some penalty befitting their participation upon the little Eichmanns inhabiting the sterile sanctuary of the twin towers, I'd really be interested in hearing about it.
I don't know what that sounds like to you. But to me, it sounds as if he is characterizing the innocent civilians who died in the Twin towers as Nazis. It sounds like he is attacking their lifestyles merely because they may have happened to have office-type jobs that they made decent money at. This essay is dripping with Leftist Class hatred that is insinuating that these people deserved to die.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: The P.C. police strike again [Re: zahudulallah]
#3822687 - 02/23/05 02:23 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Whatever. Talk about being selective. You try to defend this guy for his sociological studies regarding women that are deemed politically incorrect.
The Harvard President did not make any sociological studies regarding women. He was at an informal meeting of academics. The topic of why there aren't more women in the sciences came up. He proposed a possible theory.
You are missing the point here. I am not calling for Churchill's firing. I am not calling for the suppression of his free speech.
I am merely saying that I think ANY University board has a right to make any decision that they want to in order to make the University run well. After all a University is somewhat of a business. If you have someone who is more trouble than they are worth in a business, you get rid of them. I think Harvard should have a right to get rid of their President and I think Uni. of Colorado should have a right to get rid of Churchill. I realize that they probably don't have that right however.
When a professor makes a politically incorrect statement about 9-11, you're holding his feet to the fire.
Am I the only person who sees a big difference between someone suggesting a possible genetic reason for something, and another person pretty much celebrating the deaths of innocent civilians merely because they belonged to a certain social class?
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Tao
Village Genius
Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Re: The P.C. police strike again [Re: RandalFlagg]
#3822732 - 02/23/05 02:33 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Back in the 50s/60s three professors at my university were fired for being suspected of being communist. Do you think the university had the right to fire them?
Your determination that a professor should be fired for making a political statement you disagree is fascist, I'm glad people in those have positions tend to have an actual understanding of what freedom of expression is about, unlike you.
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Magash's Grain Tek + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs 
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: The P.C. police strike again [Re: Tao]
#3822921 - 02/23/05 03:19 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Your determination that a professor should be fired for making a political statement you disagree is fascist, I'm glad people in those have positions tend to have an actual understanding of what freedom of expression is about, unlike you.
JESUS CHRIST! You people need to learn how to fucking read.
I will lay out my points in a clear and concise manner so everybody can understand them:
1. Anybody has the right to say whatever they want to in America, no matter how disgusting or abhorrent it is. Churchill had every right to say what he did.
2. I think what Churchill said was despicable. I have every right to think that. I NEVER said that he SHOULD be fired.
3. A University is a business. The University of Colorado is a public-funded university. Its money comes from taxpayers, alumni donations, and student tuition. The University board therefore has to make sure these streams of revenue keep coming in. It also has to make sure that the taxpayers of Colorado are being served well. If ANYBODY in the organization does anything that threatens revenues or sullies the reputation of the University, the board in my opinion should have the right to get rid of them. I realize that right now they legally can't do that, but I think they(or any University) should have that right.
Read more closely next time before you start calling people fascists.
Edited by RandalFlagg (02/23/05 03:23 PM)
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 18 years, 10 months
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Re: The P.C. police strike again [Re: RandalFlagg]
#3823045 - 02/23/05 03:43 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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If you're gonna support free speech, then SUPPORT it. Don't be hypocritical about what can and cannot be said by your own tastes. It's hubris.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: The P.C. police strike again [Re: zahudulallah]
#3823054 - 02/23/05 03:44 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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If you're gonna support free speech, then SUPPORT it. Don't be hypocritical about what can and cannot be said by your own tastes.
HUH?!?!?!
Did you not read my last post. Read #1 in my last post.
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Tao
Village Genius
Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Re: The P.C. police strike again [Re: RandalFlagg]
#3826352 - 02/24/05 06:48 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Educational institutions go beyond what is simply a 'business', especially when they are state universities. State universities should absolutely not have the right to fire a professor over a politically unpopular statement.
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Magash's Grain Tek + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs
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phi1618
old hand
Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
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Re: The P.C. police strike again [Re: Tao]
#3826358 - 02/24/05 06:55 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
TaoTeChing said:
Educational institutions go beyond what is simply a 'business', especially when they are state universities. State universities should absolutely not have the right to fire a professor over a politically unpopular statement.
Professors get tenure in part so that the administration can't fire them for taking unpopular stances. Professors should be able to publicly state their views, unpopular or rediculous or whatever else, without fear of losing their jobs.
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Tao
Village Genius
Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Re: The P.C. police strike again [Re: phi1618]
#3826381 - 02/24/05 07:11 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Professors get tenure in part so that the administration can't fire them for taking unpopular stances.
that as well as being able to put near-zero effort into teaching introductory courses.
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Magash's Grain Tek + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs
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phi1618
old hand
Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
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Re: The P.C. police strike again [Re: Tao]
#3826406 - 02/24/05 07:30 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
that as well as being able to put near-zero effort into teaching introductory courses.
That, and putting near-zero effort into life in general, are about the only effects of tenure I've ever actually seen. I was speaking more in the theoretical sense.
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