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InvisibleSilversoul
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Say your prayers
    #3793489 - 02/17/05 03:24 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

As if it makes a lick of difference. Let's all pray for no violence in the world for the next week. Let's pray for peace between Israel and Palestine sometime within the next month. What's that you say? Can't interfere with free will? How about let's pray that nobody gets sick for a week and see how that turns out? Then again, how do we know bacteria don't have free will? Guess that would put a damper on the whole idea of God healing the sick. Well, how about we pray for no more natural disasters ever again? Think that might work? If not, then what can you pray for that will have any effect whatsoever on the world? And if God is all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-loving, then why would he even need to hear your prayer in order to do any of these things? I've got an idea: How about instead of praying for these things, we actually go out and do something about them?


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Say your prayers [Re: Silversoul]
    #3793856 - 02/17/05 05:07 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Why would god have to hear prayers? Prayers are not wishes.
Real praying is a special state of mind, which is even measurable with instruments. It gives the same neural signitures as meditation.
Praying is not saying words to make wishes come true. It is a state of light trance which "saints" go into to contact their god.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Edited by OldWoodSpecter (02/17/05 05:10 PM)


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Say your prayers [Re: Silversoul]
    #3794015 - 02/17/05 05:40 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Prayer is not about handing a personal wish list over to God. If you read the Bible, you'll see that there are many cues to avoid asking God for things.
Prayer is about attuning oneself to God, like one friend opening up to another.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Say your prayers [Re: Alan Stone]
    #3794444 - 02/17/05 06:58 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I think intention works. Prayer is a way for people to focus their intent on a subject via the belief in a god.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Say your prayers [Re: Alan Stone]
    #3794660 - 02/17/05 07:42 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

If you read the Bible, you'll see that there are many cues to avoid asking God for things.

You mean such as, "Ask and you shall receive. Knock and the door shall be opened,"?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Say your prayers [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3794678 - 02/17/05 07:45 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Why would god have to hear prayers? Prayers are not wishes.
Real praying is a special state of mind, which is even measurable with instruments. It gives the same neural signitures as meditation.
Praying is not saying words to make wishes come true. It is a state of light trance which "saints" go into to contact their god.




Hhhhmmm....  I thought prayer was about thanking/praising "God", or selflessness, and selfless thoughts for others....  Like praying for someone sick, etc.... 

What is the difference between "Praying" and "Real Praying"...??    I dun~ ain't never heard that before....?  They measure it with instruments...?  And it makes it more "REAL"....?    I honestly would doubt any validity in "state of mind" or "frequency" of brain waves to be a measurement of weather or not one is "Praying"....  I would be more apt to call it "Focused Praying" if one was to put a "tag" on it....    But what makes one more "important" than the way others pray as to call one "REAL"....?

Not saying it doesn't happen, but I have never seen anyone go into a trance while praying....  If your thoughts and intents are what define "praying", then why couldn't you do it while driving, or mowing the lawn...?  What does going into a trance have to do with anything...?  Does it mean that your "God" will hear you better...?  If so, why not build yourself a radio tower, and get a direct line....?

I think that a "God" would still answer the calls coming in on the ole' "two cups and a string" phone....  :smirk:

HHhhmmmm....    :shrug:

>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Say your prayers [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3794847 - 02/17/05 09:10 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

So if you are sleeping and the instruments measure that your brain is sleeping, it doesn't make it sleep?
The tests were done on nuns and Budhistic monks, both had same signitures, and some specific centres in the brain activated which are not used usually.

A comment to Swami...
ask and you shall recieve, yes, but not gold and money, but health, happiness, peace, a good harvest, healthy animals, not palaces.
Christian god does not support greed, nor does any other god I think.

Back to you..

A prayer can be prayer without any words or askings. It is simply a state of mind in which you are "in touch with god" or at least have the illusion of that. But prayer is like christian version of Borg regeneration chamber. It may or may not serve a purpuse, in this state you can do anything from give thanks to god or ask him something, it is up to you.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Say your prayers [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3794859 - 02/17/05 09:13 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
If your thoughts and intents are what define "praying", then why couldn't you do it while driving, or mowing the lawn...?
>^;;^<




Well thats the point. It is not thoughts or contents of the prayer that define it. Prayer is a state of strong focus on god. Like hypnosis begins with focus on a shiny object, so is prayer a point of focus on god. It's not that different from hypnosis anyway.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Edited by OldWoodSpecter (02/17/05 09:13 PM)


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Say your prayers [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3794910 - 02/17/05 09:23 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I love when people try to apply their rules of spirituality to everyone; Giving these man made confines of what God does and doesnt do. Stick with the "may God show you your own truth" statement.

My God can beat up your God......


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Say your prayers [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #3794989 - 02/17/05 09:35 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I was not talking about "my god" since I am not a christian.
These are not by beliefs.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Edited by OldWoodSpecter (02/17/05 09:37 PM)


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Say your prayers [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3795115 - 02/17/05 09:52 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
ask and you shall recieve, yes, but not gold and money, but health, happiness, peace, a good harvest, healthy animals, not palaces.
Christian god does not support greed, nor does any other god I think.



Look through what I asked people to pray for. I don't think there was a single selfish request on there. They were all prayers for peace, health, and happiness for other people. Why would God not grant such prayers?(and why would we even need to ask?)


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OnlineShroomDoom
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Re: Say your prayers [Re: Silversoul]
    #3795157 - 02/17/05 09:59 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

prayer is like a magical power that we all have, and some of us forget to use it.


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Say your prayers [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3795178 - 02/17/05 10:02 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
If your thoughts and intents are what define "praying", then why couldn't you do it while driving, or mowing the lawn...? 
>^;;^<




Well thats the point. It is not thoughts or contents of the prayer that define it. Prayer is a state of strong focus on god. Like hypnosis begins with focus on a shiny object, so is prayer a point of focus on god. It's not that different from hypnosis anyway.




So a quick prayer before a meal with your family would be pointless...?  It would be too quick to be in a "focused" state of mind, and you would be most likely thinking more about the smells of the food and eating.... 

I TOTALLY get it now....  :rolleyes:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Say your prayers [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3795316 - 02/17/05 10:32 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I don't know why did you add the sarcastic flavour to the post. That is what I ment, yes.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Say your prayers [Re: Silversoul]
    #3795352 - 02/17/05 10:41 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Humanity starts a war and kills itself and then expects god to fix it? Well if humanity wants a war to stop, humanity should just stop it.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Say your prayers [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3795612 - 02/17/05 11:07 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I did add sarcasm....  Because, you are trying to give measurement to a prayer and give it "worth" by placing rules on "state of mind" for praying....  If "God" is the absolute, and can make anything happen, including stopping time to hear ALL of the praying done by ALL of the people praying....  Then the length of time of a prayer would have no meaning, and the length of time praying would not have effect on how important it is....  Otherwise I am pretty sure that more religions would be teaching people how to put themselves in a trance or hypnotic state so they can pray "right".... 

To judge or measure someone's prayer based on length of time as opposed to one's intents and feeling of the prayer sounds somewhat sarcastic to me, even arrogant....  To have a man say what a God is paying attention too, and for what reasons sounds ignorant to me....  Some pray to a God to bless their food and family, and by what you said, based on a scientific measurement, you have just excluded a big percentage of people's praying to be pointless.... 

It is like saying that I don't love my family because I am not in a certain mental state, or don't talk to them for a certain amount of time on the phone.... 

Sarcasm....  Just like spicey food, it tastes good sometimes....  You said that they were not your beliefs, then you should not find my sarcasm for more than simple humor, as I just don't agree with the people you are refering too in your quoted ideas/beliefs of "Real Prayer" - again, defined by man....  You did first post it in a factual tense....  Then you said it was not your belief....  Then, you kinda~ started standing up for it like you do believe it....  So why do you defend it if you do not believe it...?

:::::scratching head:::::
(I think I have lice, I have been scratching my head all night....)
:tongue:

>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Say your prayers [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3795823 - 02/17/05 11:45 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

ask and you shall recieve, yes, but not gold and money, but health, happiness, peace, a good harvest, healthy animals, not palaces.
Christian god does not support greed, nor does any other god I think.


Do you just make this stuff up? A good harvest = money - doh!


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Say your prayers [Re: Swami]
    #3797291 - 02/18/05 08:08 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

well you could die without a good harvest, or become a begger, so it was a neccessarity not luxury.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Say your prayers [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3797293 - 02/18/05 08:10 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Well ok, I'm just testing out different ideas and se how well the can stand out in discussions


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Offlinezahudulallah
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Re: Say your prayers [Re: Silversoul]
    #3797300 - 02/18/05 08:14 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Prayer is merely an esoteric communication for me with the divine - meaning, the other-worldly existence of consciousness that is ultimately free of any hinder & grinding. I have long accepted that I am trapped in a very bad, horrible physical existence that is plagued with sickness, death, hate, and last but surely not the least, ignorance. I can only await a liberating experience like death with a gleeful smile on my face. They say "Rest in Peace" because we all know this life is exhausting. It's tiring. All of us wish from time to time that we can take a one month nap. I know I can take a one month nap.


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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