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OfflineMAGnum
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Hope is evil
    #3793210 - 02/17/05 02:00 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

The Evil of Hope

Whoa wait a minute, I have to be crazy! Am I saying that hope is evil? I most certainly am and I am about to proove it! Hope, the last evil to come out of Pandora's box which was full of bad spirits and only bad spirits. Hope knocked and whisperred from inside the box saying that it would heal if released, promising that it will point to a bright future which seems fine. But hope is evil for this reason: Hope is the belief that things will get better, but for now they are bad. And this is why hope is evil, because it is looking at things as if they are bad. What a tangled mess we have!

Hope was the last evil that was in panderas box after all the whicked spirits escaped it, hope was willfully, but ignorantly released posing as good spirit. Hope is not good. To think your current possition is bad is never a good thing. To have hope will get you stuck in a state of "hope" always DESIRING better from where one is. Hope is born of want and giving place to current and past situations and is nothing but twisted.

If you really want hope, you don't know what you are talking about because you are wanting to look at things as not good enough and needing improvement, then looking and saying that they will be improved. Look at it like this and you will go crazy. Honestly, have faith in the fact that things are good, always will be good and always were good because God made things based out of Love. Hope is non exsistant in reality because things are already good no matter what and simply need to be realized as such. To say "I hope," is litterally to say "I wish the way things are didn't exsist and that things will get better," and hate is to wish into inexsistance; thus to have hope, you must have hate because you wish that the current doesn't exsist. BE CAREFUL what you choose to believe and please know what to have faith in. Love is the supreme force. live with a little Love and you will be surprized how your enemies will become your friends; how your bad looking circumstances are good; how all of your needs are already taken care of.

This is from my website:
http://www.angelfire.com/dragon2/prophets/index.html
Love is the Key


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Agent 727
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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Hope is evil [Re: MAGnum]
    #3793378 - 02/17/05 02:53 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Beliefs and expectations have a lot of influence one ones life, as they have the power of suggestion.
If you believe you are going to be a succsesfull man, whatever you consider to be successfull, there is a much better chance that you will. If you don't it will probably not happen.

Those who are having a bad day usually bark against this statement, but it is not mumbo jumbo, but pure psychology.

There is no future. Future is created today. So hope in its essence predicts something that isn't there, but it does help in forming this imaginary future to be what hope hopes to be.

Future of everything in human civilisation, from economics, to wars is not written in some book, but is built second by second as a result of the collective suggestion and beliefs.



--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Edited by OldWoodSpecter (02/17/05 02:56 PM)


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Hope is evil [Re: MAGnum]
    #3793407 - 02/17/05 03:00 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Both hope and fear make up the duality of suffering. They both point to negativity as there cause.


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OfflineMAGnum
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Re: Hope is evil [Re: Sinbad]
    #3793481 - 02/17/05 03:22 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Nice statement! I'm going to put that on my website. PM me with who you want it quoted to. If Sinbad is enough then that will be the name I quote it to.


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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"HOPE" is "EVIL"....? Depends on one's "INTENTIONS".... (I say....) [Re: Sinbad]
    #3795097 - 02/17/05 09:47 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Sinbad said:
Both hope and fear make up the duality of suffering. They both point to negativity as there cause.




So, if I say:  "I HOPE that you don't die...."  That would be "Evil"...?  Perhaps in a good way....?  :shrug:
::::scratching head::::    :confused:
Well, I sure don't want to be "EVIL".....!?  :rolleyes:  :shrug:  :lol: 
I will now correct myself based on your insight:
I DON'T "Hope" that you don't die....  :smirk:
NOW, I feel less "Evil"....!!!!    :shake:


"Hope" is very different from "Expectation", but *are* both indeed closely related....  To blindly call either of them "Evil" just sounds stoooopid to me - without defining weather or not the "Intent" is of an "Evil" nature....  Both can leave one disappointed - if one lets it be so.... 
I would say that "Expectation" *could* be on the "Evil" side depending on "Intent"....
BUT, I would say that "Hope" *could* be on the "Evil" side as well - again depending on "Intent"....
You can flip "Hope" around to be shown in a positive light like I did in the beginning of my post....
But, I dunno~ if you can do the same for "Expectation" quit so easily....(?)


Having "Expectation" just sets yourself up for a possible disappointment....    And *can* be seen in a more "Selfish" light....    And to what I "know", selfishness is considered "Evil"....

But to have "Hope" for something in a non-"Evil" manner/intent and "blindly" calling it "Evil" don't make sense to me at all.... 
Especially if the intents are positive, and driven by a SELFLESS intention....

Either way, both are a choice, and are dependent upon one's "Intent" if you are to arrogantly say that one is indeed "Evil"....


**************************
On a side note, I have a personal *MoTTo* that I kinda~ live by....  I *usually*:
"Hope for the best and Expect the worse - that way one cannot be disappointed in the outcome..."

So you can call me "Doubly Evil" for using both in my "philosophy", it is all just a mind game to be happy (as most religious beliefs seem to be)....  My intents - to be happy over being disappointed....  Is that just selfish of me, or is it just healthy....?  Is self mental trickery with the intents to lead a happier healthier life considered to be "Evil"....?   

NNNnnnnnnaaaaaaaaaaa.....    :noway:

Perhaps "Balance" would be the more correct description in this case....?    :yesnod:

Perhaps my logic is flawed....?  OOoohhh to be an ignorant human like me....  :wink:

>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: Hope is evil [Re: Sinbad]
    #3795630 - 02/17/05 11:09 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Sinbad said:
Both hope and fear make up the duality of suffering. They both point to negativity as there cause.





Hope and fear are not opposite poles of a duality. The polar opposite of hope is despair, while the polar opposite of fear is confidence or more simply faith.


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OfflineMAGnum
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Re: "HOPE" is "EVIL"....? Depends on one's "INTENTIONS".... (I say....) [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3795703 - 02/17/05 11:19 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

What I am saying is that hope is the belief that "things will get better, but for now they are bad." The whole reason hope is evil is because it allows people to dillude themselves in pessimism and the pessimistic valley is a precarious one to get out.

To say "I hope you don't die" is to say "Things are bad, I wish you don't die"

Hope was the last thing in Pandora's box full of evil and it claimed to come to heal the masses, but hope does no such thing. Hope is the belief that "things are bad" and that is the lie which makes hope evil. The truth is that God made all things out of love which means all things are good. If you believe that, then hope has no place in your life.

The problem lies in that you don't realize your love for life (happiness) when you hope. Hope both leads to sufferring and is based on suffering.

Honestly, saying "I hope you don't die" is differant than "I wish you to live" the first is half empty, the latter is half full.


--------------------
Agent 727
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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: "HOPE" is "EVIL"....? Depends on one's "INTENTIONS".... (I say....) [Re: MAGnum]
    #3795739 - 02/17/05 11:25 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Hope is the belief that "things are bad" and that is the lie which makes hope evil.





I wouldn't say that magnum. I think that hope is having the courage to believe that things are good even when they seem bad.


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Hope is evil [Re: shroomydan]
    #3795809 - 02/17/05 11:42 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Well, it is said that confidence or even faith can overcome fear, but are they really opposites....? 

I have been really curious about emotions lately, and kind of *see it* in my head that there are NO true polar dualities in emotions at all.... 

I better just make my own thread about it....!  :lol:

>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Hope is evil [Re: MAGnum]
    #3795851 - 02/17/05 11:51 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Faith, Hope and Love are the 3 Christian virtues. Paul in I Corinthians 13 makes the argument for Love as being the greatest, beyond even the faith to 'move mountains.' Hope (symbolized by a nautical anchor, even as far back as the catacombs under Rome) is a reminder that Christianity is a 'historical' religion, unlike, say, Buddhism which is classified as a 'cosmic' religion. Christianity is a 'partially realized eschatology,' unlike Buddhism which represents a 'fully realized eschatology' - fancy terms for describing whether Ultimate Reality is available partly in the Present, and partly in the future (therefore 'in' time), or completely in the Present.

Because St. Paul and everyone after him seems to have been wrong about the 'end times,' or the 'end of time,' heralded by the immanent return of Jesus 'in glory,' it may well be that the Gospel of Thomas' interpretation of Christianity - as fully realized, like in Buddhism - is the correct interpretation of Christianity. Instead of 'waiting' and 'hoping' which are both mental processes rooted in linear, horizontal, historical time, Paul and all could be completely wrong. That would obliterate Hope for an Earthly paradise, but certainly not destroy the spiritual desire (yes, desire) that prompts Petitionary Prayer. You see, although Christianity and Buddhisn may have Contemplative Prayer in common, Buddhism for the most part does not enjoin Petitionary Prayer to GOD Who has attributes (just contemplation of 'GOD' without attributes - Sunyata).

The paradox as I see it is that yes, GOD IS available here and now, and an apocalyptic Theophany of Jesus coming on clouds of glory in some future 'time' is not part of my belief system - I live in both time AND Eternity. Hope belongs to my temporal existence, as I had hoped that my recent biopsy would turn out non-malignant, and it did. To be sure, the opposite report would not have been met with joy and thanksgiving, but with very negative emotions - even against an infrastructure of dispassionate equanimity which borrows from Eternity. Jesus wept at the news of the death of Lazarus, despite the ability He had to petition GOD for Lazarus' resurrection. How come? Same paradox of belonging to both domains and manifesting the human temporal side as grief and the timeless Godly side as resurrection (whether historical, mythic or midrashic).

Bottom line: Hope has its place in the human condition inasmuch as desire has its appropriate place.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Hope is evil [Re: MAGnum]
    #3796247 - 02/18/05 01:10 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Hope is neither optimistic nor pessimistic.
One can hope for death, life, happiness, sorrow, gain, loss...

It's the desire for change, usually a specific change.


But there's the quaternary definition of hope, too (Markos' def.):
The theological virtue defined as the desire and search for a future good, difficult but not impossible to attain with God's help.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: Hope is evil [Re: Sclorch]
    #3796283 - 02/18/05 01:17 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

It could just as easily be the desire for things to stay the way they are. "I hope the weather holds out."


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OfflineCaptainJailew
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Re: Hope is evil [Re: shroomydan]
    #3796349 - 02/18/05 01:26 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Hope is the only thing that sustains some people's existence. The millions of people held in Nazi concentration camps were the epitome of the musselmen that Agomben talks about. They had nothing in the status quo and only "hope" of the future getting better kept them alive.

Victor Frankl, a holocaust survivor mentions in his book Man's Search For Meaning that hope was the only thing that people had as something they could fantasize about in order to traverse their current conditions.

Hope can never be expressed as being an absolute. Perhaps some people could see hope is simply an actualization of the universal feeling that "things could get better." No one claims to exist in a simple state of perfect existence, to hope is simply a reaffirmation of that fact.


--------------------
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" - Albert Einstein



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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Hope is evil [Re: shroomydan]
    #3796367 - 02/18/05 01:28 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

shroomydan said:
It could just as easily be the desire for things to stay the way they are. "I hope the weather holds out."




Fuck... you're absolutely right.

But when you're hoping that the weather hold out... are you not assuming that the weather will not hold out?  Therefore, in hoping, you're wishing for change to NOT happen... and is this not a change in the expected outcome (change itself)?

Or maybe you were just desiring a change in the probability that the weather will hold out...

hehe :grin:


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: Hope is evil [Re: Sclorch]
    #3796410 - 02/18/05 01:33 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Maybe your just playing word games  :grin:


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Hope is evil [Re: shroomydan]
    #3796545 - 02/18/05 01:56 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

shroomydan said:
Maybe you're just playing word games  :grin:




No... I'm just reminding people of the value of linguistics.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Hope is evil [Re: Sclorch]
    #3796641 - 02/18/05 02:20 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I wouldn't say it is simple to understand completely on the FIRST read, but it does make sense....    .......I think.....  =)

BUT, is not having a "Desire" for a selfish purpose the wrong way to use this particular linguistic term altogether...?    Perhaps "Lust" would be the more appropriate....?    :evil:

::::as he spell checks it all::::

:smirk:



>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Hope is evil [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3796666 - 02/18/05 02:28 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
I wouldn't say it is simple to understand completely on the FIRST read, but it does make sense....    .......I think.....  =)

BUT, is not having a "Desire" for a selfish purpose the wrong way to use this particular linguistic term altogether...?    Perhaps "Lust" would be the more appropriate....?    :evil:
::::as he spell checks it all::::
:smirk:
>^;;^<




hehe

Well, hope is definitely born of emotion.  I can't argue that.
And morals ("wrong way") is really a separate topic.

*holds back his inner grammarian and allows the expressive punctuation*


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: "HOPE" is "EVIL"....? Depends on one's "INTENTIONS".... (I say....) [Re: shroomydan]
    #3797197 - 02/18/05 06:33 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

shroomydan said:
I wouldn't say that magnum. I think that hope is having the courage to believe that things are good even when they seem bad.




Having the courage to delude themselves? :what: Personally, I think the more courageous thing to do would be to face reality for what it is, rather than try to convince oneself that reality is something than what it really is - that is a very harmful thing to do to oneself. :shocked:

The most effective way to change a situation for the better is to fully understand that situation as it is now, and not seperate oneself from the unfolding of that situation by catering to one's emotional needs or attempts to convince onself that the situation is different than it actually is. Then one is more capable to take action, if taking action is possible.

To wish or desire something with the expectation of its fufillment points towards an error in one's mental programming. Reality unfolds as it unfolds, the interplay between every variable (including ourselves) in the universe, and to not only want reality to unfold a certain way, but to also expect that one's wish is fufilled (of course, this is always bound by emotion, meaning that one will be rewarded if it is fufilled and punished with negative emotions if it is not) is insanity.

Play one's part in unfolding reality, but to form emotionally-bound expectations of what reality is and comes to be? Highly unnecessary, counter-productive, and full of needless suffering. :smirk:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Hope is evil [Re: shroomydan]
    #3797251 - 02/18/05 07:17 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Hope (Hoping for something more or better i.e Faith)
Fear (Fearing the worst i.e Dispair) :grin:


--------------------


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