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 Cyber
Ash
 
Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 1,476
Loc: Dearborn Michigan
Last seen: 24 days, 9 hours
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 Re: I bought a gun today :)  [Re: Redstorm]
#3793315 - 02/17/05 12:35 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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What an interesting thread! After reading the thread Ill add a few comments.
I own several guns, some are rifles ( 1923 8mm Mouser, 1954 Russian SKS, 1957 Russian M44) some are hand guns ( 1944 M1911A1, 1861 revolver, etc.) I hunt, use them for protection, and collect for the historical antiquity of the piece.
For those that think a handgun is not needed when hunting, you are wrong! Try hunting HOG. When you have just shot a 400lb hog (If you miss the heart you just piss them off) and he has you up a tree. The handgun comes in handy!
To the ones that have said, for protection you should just run and hide. You should remember that for years they told everyone on an air plain to do as a hijacker tells them. The hijacker just wants to go some where. On 9/11 we learned that some times people just want to kill us! Times are changing and I would not say it is for the better. Second why should I hide in my own home? Why should I let some one take what I have worked hard for?
To the ones that say "You will never need a hand gun." I love the line from the movie AVP, "It is like a condom, I would rather have one and not need it, then need one and not have it!"
Just my 2 cents
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 Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: I bought a gun today :) [Re: shnakboozy]
#3793358 - 02/17/05 12:48 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
shnakboozy said:
blimey paradigm, what a big post! i think u need to refresh your all governing ruleset and chill out a bit. that's the trouble with the internet sometimes i guess.
I try to make my points as thorough and concise as possible, touching on every point made, if possible. It has nothing to do with chilling out and everything to do with being a good debater.
Quote:
even in the states rape and murder are MUCH MUCH MUCH less common than burglaries at night.
And burglaries are MUCH MUCH MUCH less common than traffic accidents, but that doesn't mean burglaries aren't a problem. Also statistically, you are by far more likely to be killed by someone from your own country than by some invading army, but that doesn't mean we don't need a military. Saying that something else is more likely to happen is a straw man argument which ignores the actual likelihood of the event in question.
Quote:
statistically if there is a stranger in your house at 3am by far and away the most likely reason they are there is to burgle you. sure they will have plan in mind in case they are seen, and that might include violence. all the more reason why it is best to hide!!!
Actually, pointing a gun at them is likely to stop them in their tracks, with the added bonus that you can hold them there while the cops come to arrest them and prevent them from committing more burglaries.
Quote:
only an idiot would think its a good idea to keep a loaded gun under their pillow where i live. i'm sorry to hear its different where u live. thats bad luck. statistically it might make sense for u to keep a gun, that's a pity.
I've said all along that it's stupid to keep a gun under your pillow. If I had a gun, I'd keep it locked and unloaded in a drawer next to my bed, with the ammunition in another drawer. Or if I was really paranoid I'd keep it loaded next to my bed with the safety on, but never under my pillow.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,174
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: I bought a gun today :) [Re: Silversoul]
#3793367 - 02/17/05 12:50 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Amen, brother.
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eric_the_red
Ass
Registered: 02/28/03
Posts: 13,180
Loc: happy land
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Re: I bought a gun today :) [Re: Cyber]
#3793382 - 02/17/05 12:55 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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hey, how does that m44 shoot? is it any good at over 100 yards?
have you ever fired any of the mosin-nagant 91/30s? i found a great deal on those an will be getting one as soon as i receive my fflc&r license, which should be in about 5 weeks.
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Anno cock? is that some kind of Greek liqueur? -Geo's All Knowing Sex Slave
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Cyber
Ash
Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 1,476
Loc: Dearborn Michigan
Last seen: 24 days, 9 hours
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Re: I bought a gun today :) [Re: eric_the_red]
#3793456 - 02/17/05 01:15 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
eric_the_red said:
hey, how does that m44 shoot? is it any good at over 100 yards?
The M44 is on the mark at 1000 feet. Kicks like a mule, it has a steel but plate and fires a round that is 7.62x54 (Bigger than a 308 round)
Quote:
have you ever fired any of the mosin-nagant 91/30s? i found a great deal on those an will be getting one as soon as i receive my fflc&r license, which should be in about 5 weeks.
I have not had the opportunity to shoot a 91/30 s, If it uses the same 7.62X54 round pull it tight to your shoulder because it will kick like a mule. 5 to 7 rounds and my shoulder is black and blue.
Why do you need a FFLC&R license? I just stopped in at a gun show, laid down 150$ cash and walked out with my M44, no muss, no fuss, no background check.
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shnakboozy
Stranger
Registered: 02/03/05
Posts: 123
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
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Re: I bought a gun today :) [Re: eric_the_red]
#3793572 - 02/17/05 01:48 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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well, paradigm, for the most part nothing u have said contradicts anything i have said and vice versa. your debating technique borders on suggesting i said things i simply did not. for example i never said burglary wasnt a problem!
if you want me to quantify the problem here i can tell you that where i live there are 2.5 people out of 1000 can expect to be burgled in any one year. of those 2.5 burglaries a very tiny fraction (less, i suggest, than 1 in 1000 of them, even that is probably an exaggeration) will involve firearrms. so that's at most a 2.5 chance in a million of having an armed burglar in your house in any one year. i consider burglary here a problem but, no doubt, it it worse where u are so u can keep your gun, i dont need it!
it is important to make relative comparisons. everyday we make comparisons (this road is quicker than that road, this person is more beautiful than that person, this bit of cake is bigger than that bit of cake etc etc). it's important to make these comparisons so we can put things in context in the world.
if u point (or shoot) a gun at a drug crazed armed nutter he will try to shoot you. if u successfully hide from him he wont. it is the drug crazed nutter u have to worry about, not "rational thinking" burglars who usualy just want money, not trouble.
i dont mind chatting to a "good debater" i dont particulalry like it when they say things like "You live in a very sheltered world, and don't appreciate the danger that others have to face" thats not debate, its conjecture on your part. you know almost nothing about me, i assure u that although i currently live in a very safe part of the world, if u did know me you would not say that i dont appreciate the dangers others (and myself at some times) have to face. i am, "life experienced" and "worldly wise" to say the least!!
here, u would be breaking the law by keeping a loaded handgun under your pillow, or indeed in a drawer unloaded. but i accept that things are different in other places, and if i lived somewhere where every lowlife scumball packs a magnum then i probably would want one too. something else we most likely agree on.
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eric_the_red
Ass
Registered: 02/28/03
Posts: 13,180
Loc: happy land
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Re: I bought a gun today :) [Re: Cyber]
#3793581 - 02/17/05 01:50 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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that's pretty good. that rifle could be used as a deer gun. i heard the m44s were one of the more accurate older rifles.
i don't need the fflc&r to buy the gun, but it will save me a lot of money in the long run and has other benefits. i can have guns shipped across state lines to my home. i can get discounts at some shops.
for example:
i can have a russian m44 at my doorstep for $64.95+shipping (usually $12-15), $58.95 for an m91/30 or m38, $88.95 for a yugoslavian sks, $89.95 for a cz52.
i do have to pay shipping, but i don't have to pay sales tax or any ffl transfer fees. the license costed $90, but i'm still saving a lot of money by having one.
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Anno cock? is that some kind of Greek liqueur? -Geo's All Knowing Sex Slave
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ZippoZ
Knomadic
Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 13,227
Loc: Pongyang, North Korea
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Re: I bought a gun today :) [Re: eric_the_red]
#3793615 - 02/17/05 01:59 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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sa for my financial situation asked by soneone with 1500 posts i dont remember who, page 2...
i blew that last of my cash on the gun, and have not yet bought the land. im hoping for a loan from a bank, working on my business plan now, working with my teachers/lawyers. currently i am like $800 in debt, but that all changes when the snow falls 
oh and doint think for a second that i dont have extra loaded clips
its funny the other day i went out to shoot some cans off of the woodpile in the back yard, and my stepbrother, with some serious issues (24ish living in my parents basement, cant get a job becaue he cant pass a drug test, despite one of his family members is president of a very powerful union....) was going off on how the bb gun didnt scare him and so on and so forth....
funny
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PEACE
 zippoz
"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"
"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."
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The_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth
Registered: 08/13/03
Posts: 13,673
Loc: Smokey Mtns. TN 
Last seen: 6 years, 24 days
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Re: I bought a gun today :) [Re: niteowl]
#3793645 - 02/17/05 02:04 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
niteowl said:
I guess that you have TONS of evidence that owning a hand gun actually PREVENTS crime. If EVERY one on the planet owned a hand gun .... will crime dissapear?....
I dont think so.
The whole point in owning a hand gun is to have a handy wheapon to shoot someone.
PERIOD
There isnt any other reason in having a HAND gun.
Owning a hand gun will not make you ANY safer. You may FEEL safer, but it is an illusion.
agr8fulchick... If you can shooot a .45 then Im sure you could shoot a .22 rifle just as easily.
Your not the most knowledgeable person when it comes to guns.
I will reiterate once again. A handgun is a tool its no worse than the person who uses it.
Remember knowledge is power. Ad hominem knee jerk reactionary arguments will get you no where.
THINK OF THE CHILDREN!
Edited by The_Red_Crayon (02/17/05 02:05 PM)
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Quote:
The_Red_Crayon said:
A handgun is a tool....
A tool for what?
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Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: I bought a gun today :) [Re: shnakboozy]
#3793751 - 02/17/05 02:38 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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well, paradigm, for the most part nothing u have said contradicts anything i have said and vice versa. your debating technique borders on suggesting i said things i simply did not. for example i never said burglary wasnt a problem!
I was merely pointing out the irrelevance of your argument.
if you want me to quantify the problem here i can tell you that where i live there are 2.5 people out of 1000 can expect to be burgled in any one year. of those 2.5 burglaries a very tiny fraction (less, i suggest, than 1 in 1000 of them, even that is probably an exaggeration) will involve firearrms. so that's at most a 2.5 chance in a million of having an armed burglar in your house in any one year. i consider burglary here a problem but, no doubt, it it worse where u are so u can keep your gun, i dont need it!
Good. Don't get one then, and stay out of other people's business when they do decide to get one. Thanks.
it is important to make relative comparisons. everyday we make comparisons (this road is quicker than that road, this person is more beautiful than that person, this bit of cake is bigger than that bit of cake etc etc). it's important to make these comparisons so we can put things in context in the world.
Relative comparisons are only useful when put in the context of concrete statistics. When considering safety, you don't just prepare for the most likely scenario. You prepare for anything that might go wrong.
if u point (or shoot) a gun at a drug crazed armed nutter he will try to shoot you. if u successfully hide from him he wont. it is the drug crazed nutter u have to worry about, not "rational thinking" burglars who usualy just want money, not trouble.
If I have a gun aimed someone and they start reaching for their gun, I can shoot him before he can shoot me. Problem solved. However, most people, even criminals, value their lives and do not want to get shot. Therefore, most will either put their hands up and drop their weapon or run away. Either way, they're no longer a threat to me.
i dont mind chatting to a "good debater" i dont particulalry like it when they say things like "You live in a very sheltered world, and don't appreciate the danger that others have to face" thats not debate, its conjecture on your part.
No, it is reading what you have said and seeing the implications of it.
you know almost nothing about me
I know what you have written, and I assume what you have written about yourself to be true. If I am wrong in that assumption, please forgive me.
i assure u that although i currently live in a very safe part of the world, if u did know me you would not say that i dont appreciate the dangers others (and myself at some times) have to face. i am, "life experienced" and "worldly wise" to say the least!!
You talk about how safe it is where you live as if the same applied to everyone. This is why I say you do not appreciate the dangers others face.
here, u would be breaking the law by keeping a loaded handgun under your pillow, or indeed in a drawer unloaded.
I'm guessing you don't live in America, right?
but i accept that things are different in other places, and if i lived somewhere where every lowlife scumball packs a magnum then i probably would want one too. something else we most likely agree on.
Well why didn't say so from the beginning? We could've avoided this argument altogether.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: I bought a gun today :) [Re: niteowl]
#3793763 - 02/17/05 02:41 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
niteowl said:
Quote:
The_Red_Crayon said:
A handgun is a tool....
A tool for what?
Self-defense, and sometimes hunting. Some people will use them for murder, but that's exactly why self-defense is so important.
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vinsue
Grand Old Fart
Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 17,953
Loc: The Garden State(NJ)
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 Re: I bought a gun today :) [Re: niteowl]
#3793775 - 02/17/05 02:43 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
niteowl
said...
A tool for what?.......  ....PLUS...  ...EQUALS...Part Time Job!!! 
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"All mushrooms are edible; but some only once." Croatian proverb. BTW ...
Have You Rated Ythans Mom Yet ?? ...  ... HERE'S HOW ... (be nice) .  ... 
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afoaf
CEO DBK?
Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
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Re: I bought a gun today :) [Re: Silversoul]
#3793939 - 02/17/05 03:23 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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owned
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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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shnakboozy
Stranger
Registered: 02/03/05
Posts: 123
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
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Re: I bought a gun today :) [Re: Silversoul]
#3794007 - 02/17/05 03:37 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Well why didn't say so from the beginning? We could've avoided this argument altogether.
i did. in the very first post of mine that was directed to you i said "sure, paradigm. rapists sometimes break into strangers houses, and having a gun handy then might be useful."
if u didnt just dogmatically assume that you disagreed with everything i say then you might have noticed that. u seem to like arguing with everything i write far too much for you to appreciate what lays behind my words, some of which u may actually agree with.
frankly if u have only just worked out that i dont live in the states then you certainly dont have anything like the insight into me or my life to make any assumptions about how sheltered or otherwise my life is or has been.
no doubt u will now continue to quote and repudiate every word of this post too, thereby indicating that you value argument over discussion. or do u accept that some of the things i have said are actually valid points?
have a nice day.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,174
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: I bought a gun today :) [Re: niteowl]
#3794194 - 02/17/05 04:15 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
niteowl said:
Quote:
The_Red_Crayon said:
A handgun is a tool....
A tool for what?
Not only what he said above, but target shooting is a hobby as well. Just b/c you don't share that hobby doesn't make it any less legitimate.
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ZippoZ
Knomadic
Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 13,227
Loc: Pongyang, North Korea
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Re: I bought a gun today :) [Re: Redstorm]
#3794430 - 02/17/05 04:55 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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hmm hot topic!
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PEACE
zippoz
"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"
"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."
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blacksabbathrulz
Registered: 05/22/02
Posts: 2,511
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Re: I bought a gun today :) [Re: ZippoZ]
#3794982 - 02/17/05 07:34 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zippoz said:
being that the state of illinois has found me un-fit to purchase a handgun on account of my being mentally un-stable in the past 5 some years i cannot LEGALLLY own a gun.
but today my friends my constitutional rights are in full swing. a foaf has just returned from the afar and lo and behold he has quite the business going for himself. the dude is selling guns, and assured me beacuse of some loophole that i can buy one from him and it will be leagal or somthing. i really dont care if itst legal or not...
anywahs $800 later and i have my own Beretta! holds 15 rounds 9 mm, im going to go out in the woods and shoot some shit in the near future!
i think that im going to go and keep it loaded and under my pillow incase someone wants to fuck with me.
damn i cant remember who, but someone told me that my future wiould end up like this......
if its a handgun I'm pretty sure its not legal. You need transfer papers, to transfer a handgun. Also 800 for a beretta? You can get the high end models for like 600 with laser sights.
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Re: I bought a gun today :) [Re: Redstorm]
#3795692 - 02/17/05 09:17 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said:
Not only what he said above, but target shooting is a hobby as well. Just b/c you don't share that hobby doesn't make it any less legitimate.
Look guys....Im not against any gun laws
I think that hand guns have their purpose(police,military,etc..) I just dont understand why the agerage joe-blow needs a hand gun.
I'v heard the whole protection issue. I also know that their are better ways to "protect" yourself.
If you want to have target practice get an air pistol.
Do you honestly believe that ANY kind of gun should be allowed in the hands of a civilian?
Where do you draw the line?
I just see no practicle use for hand guns.
IF a civilian wants to get a hand gun. They should have to go thru some kind of training.
When a guy with a history of MENTAL instability can go out and get a hand gun....
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Skunk420
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 18,524
Loc: inside
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Re: I bought a gun today :) [Re: ZippoZ]
#3795706 - 02/17/05 09:19 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Guns get you into trouble, look what is going on in the world...But I like to target practice, I haven't shot in a while..it is fun to shoot at stupid shit sometimes..
Edited by skunk78395 (02/17/05 09:21 PM)
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