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Offlinekushlover
stringcheesehead

Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 803
Loc: USA
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
A LITTLE NIETZCHE
    #378826 - 08/26/01 12:35 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Just for contemplation:

What if the human mind and personal experience is the end all be all?? Religion and superstition exist since the mind underestimates itself. The mind creates these "tools" to give it the confidence and ability to accomplish goals and blame failure on external forces beyond itself.

Example: Someone desperatly wants to quit smoking and

(1) Desperatly prays to God to help vanquish the habit from their lives or
(2)Throws a penny into a wishing pond and with closed eyes and intense concentration wishes to quit

After a week without any nicotine the person findes themself drunk at a party and the numbed mind gives in to the cravings the sober and determined mind fought all week. The person curses God or the bunk wish and decides they will quit without them. Nicotine is never touched again. Or the person may really quit on the wish and a prayer because of the faith they place with the ritual, but it is really just their mind all along anyway.

What I'm about to tell you is the truth.......
What I just told you is a lie.


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What I'm about to tell you is the truth.......
What I just told you is a lie.


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Invisibletox
'head

Registered: 08/25/01
Posts: 40
Loc: NE PA
Re: A LITTLE NIETZCHE [Re: kushlover]
    #378935 - 08/26/01 03:09 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Could it be perhaps, that since this person was raised to believe in a god, His mind can't stray from the idea? Sort of like growing a shrub into a wire cage to shape it, I think...maybe the bits and pieces that stick out are people like you and I.

What kind of rat-bastard psychotic would play THAT song at this very moment?


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In your face, Space Coyote!


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Offlinekushlover
stringcheesehead

Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 803
Loc: USA
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: A LITTLE NIETZCHE [Re: tox]
    #379112 - 08/26/01 12:04 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Right.....but I'm talking about why these ideas evolved in the first place and why they are so powerful in human culture.

What I'm about to tell you is the truth.......
What I just told you is a lie.


--------------------
What I'm about to tell you is the truth.......
What I just told you is a lie.


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OfflinebenM
Stranger
Registered: 08/24/01
Posts: 2
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
Re: A LITTLE NIETZCHE [Re: kushlover]
    #381536 - 08/29/01 05:38 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I think that we are all living in self-created universes, all splintered parts of a greater whole. Religion is a way of symbolically dealing with something the everyday mind cannot cope with.
Nietzsche proposed the idea of eternal return, whereby we will come back to this moment in time again, and live it in exactly the same way, and come back again, and again... for infinity. This ties in with things I have felt on mushroom trips... in fact, after a mindblowing trip I wrote down my thoughts afterwards, and one thing I out down was an arrow pointing both ways and the word 'interminable' below it. This was before I knew about Nietzsche... imagine my surprise when I heard about his theory of eternal return. I nearly jumped out of my jumper.
I've read here that time loops and the like are common in trips. Does anyone else have experience of this, and would you agree that it's possibly the most difficult thing to describe?



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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: A LITTLE NIETZCHE [Re: benM]
    #382343 - 08/30/01 08:59 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Fuck Nietzsche's eternal return.... it's much too deterministic.
As much as I like Nietzsche, there are a few potentially dangerous ideas in his writing. One must realize that the guy was extremely lonely and pessimistic (they seem to go hand in hand). Oh yeah, and he went crazy.... not that that's relevant.



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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Offlinehudsonismss
journeyman
Registered: 02/17/01
Posts: 58
Loc: sydney
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: A LITTLE NIETZCHE [Re: Sclorch]
    #382388 - 08/30/01 10:31 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

" One must realize that the guy was extremely lonely and pessimistic (they seem to go hand in hand)"
certainly not my friend, i think if someone can be content and comforatable with being alone, then he has truly touched upon something beautiful. I don't know if you've ever visited a monastary, but those people are always alone, even when they are around other monks, living in noble silence, yet they remain in an equinimity of calm, peaceful conent. I too am a loner of sorts, and i find solace in speanding time bymyself, with philosophy and meditation- something much toned down from Nietzsche's lifestyle- but how can you truly be comforatable with others when your not with yourself?



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live in the present and the future will present itself


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OfflineTeonanacatl fan
journeyman
Registered: 06/29/00
Posts: 38
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: A LITTLE NIETZCHE [Re: hudsonismss]
    #382450 - 08/31/01 12:21 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

What are some of his best books?
I'm interested in his philosophy, but i don't know where to start. Thanx



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Invisibleinbetween
addict
Registered: 09/14/99
Posts: 83
Loc: maps
Re: A LITTLE NIETZCHE [Re: hudsonismss]
    #383152 - 09/01/01 04:37 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I think there is generally a conflict between the monk in us and the exhibitionist. There is a sense of look what I can do
and on the other hand there is not wanting to need that. What we need to do is appreciate both together. You don't want to get too alone, because other people are important sources, teachers gurus made just for you if you look at them right, takes maybe just a little training, but it can be life sustaining if you find willing canidates to travel with. The thing to do with sources is compound them, put one on top of the other because at bottom there is no conflict. We would not be here otherwise. That is assuming a lot but like attracts like. Take what you have pulled from Nietzsche, and through that lens look at the world. Try it out. See how it affects your sensitivities. You don't have to buy it, or get drunk off it. What your trying to do, I think, is generate it yourself. The current, your particular attention stream, William Burroughs says joy is a bi-product of functioning. Look at Nietzsche, he had mostly a will to power, his philosophy is a by-product shed along the way of his courtship with insanity. He didn't have psychedelic drugs. Madness is the original other way. At anyrate, madness is mostly a biproduct of overriding defense mechanisms, just as bad trips are, essentially disrespecting the temple. Of course, if the fool persists in his folly he will become wise. that is the nature of paths in general, spiritual or existential if you need to draw a distinction. So Nietzsche manipulated an oppositional magic, that is, he used the very constructions he was living in against his society to try to free himself, maybe just to be able to think. The biggest mistake we inherit as americans (I'm assuming I'm not the only one) is the myth of an isolated individuality. The individual seeks the grail. The group manifests it. Potentially, the cup of plenty. Diversity speeds evolution. Maybe we are even doing it right now.
About the religious and superstitious beliefs, I think you are doing yourself a great diservice by cutting yourself off from that extremely rich stream of wisdom disseminated from realms as subtle or subtler than the deepest probe of science and rationalism. What you believe more or less makes up the world you live in. That is, the world is interactive in many ways beyond the economy of friendships and payed labor. That is, the energy that draws people together is the same energy that drew together the myths he have inherited, the myths that shaped history, the history that shaped the present, on the verge of an eternal edge where we create and are responsible for the future by guiding it in our own lives in the present.

Edited by inbetween on 09/01/01 03:45 AM.



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my vocabulary did this to me


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