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OfflineKnyteguy
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Non vermiculite grow tek, beginner?
    #3780034 - 02/14/05 06:25 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Hi, after searching in about every nursery/hardware store in town, I've found that vermiculite is about impossible to find here right now. Apparently there's a shortage because of an asbestos problem with it or something. Anyway, I was wondering if anyone knew of a beginners grow tek that requires no vermiculite? I have the organic brown rice flour, 1 pint jars, and of course spores. Thanks for the help!

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OfflineUpSwell
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Re: Non vermiculite grow tek, beginner? [Re: Knyteguy]
    #3780093 - 02/14/05 06:37 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

If one were to substitute whole grain rice in place of BRF/Verm, it wouldn't be a problem IMO. So simple and easy.

Check the '9er tek' in Advanced Growing faqs for details. Simply substitute whole grain rice instead of the verm/brf mix and then continue to follow the basic tek you started with.

I know someone who has done that before and the results were wonderful.

BTW, Vermiculite DOES NOT contain asbestos. The problem is that the mine where verm was dug up contained an ore that DID contain asbestos and some workers started massive lawsuits.

This does not affect vermiculite in any way and vermiculite continues to be one of the most benign substances available in horticulture.

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InvisibleTM
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Re: Non vermiculite grow tek, beginner? [Re: Knyteguy]
    #3780095 - 02/14/05 06:37 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Even though this method uses some vermiculite in the casing layers, you can eliminate it or substitute with peat moss and lime.

Though it seems complicated, it's really very simple.


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I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. :tongue2:

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OfflineKnyteguy
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Re: Non vermiculite grow tek, beginner? [Re: UpSwell]
    #3780147 - 02/14/05 06:49 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks, in the case of the whole grain rice, would I be able to find it at a supermarket, and would it need to be organic if I simply gave it a nice wash? I'm hoping I can just get some instant rice, wash it for a bit, then sub it like you're saying. If not, I'm about to go to a hardware store, so I could probably find the peat moss/lime. In the case of the lime, would I also find this in the garden section, and what would the ratio for it be with the peat moss? Thanks!

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InvisibleCookies
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Re: Non vermiculite grow tek, beginner? [Re: Knyteguy]
    #3780177 - 02/14/05 06:57 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)


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OfflineKnyteguy
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Re: Non vermiculite grow tek, beginner? [Re: Cookies]
    #3780189 - 02/14/05 06:59 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

lumens said:
vermiculite..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4356418896
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...ssPageName=WDVW

good luck!




TY for the links, but I already did some looking there, the shipping on it is like 13 dollars for ground, so it would be a huge waste of money.  I'm hoping the whole grain rice will work.

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OfflineUpSwell
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Re: Non vermiculite grow tek, beginner? [Re: Knyteguy]
    #3780468 - 02/14/05 08:16 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

You've got two issues with rice.

First: Whole grain. Instant rice like Minute Rice are not what's called for. You need the long grain rice, which AFAIK is less-processed and maintains a broader range of nutrients.

Whole grain rice is to instant rice what BRF is to bleached white flour.

Second: Organic rice.

The person in question who subbed rice did not use a strictly organic product, but one picked up out of a normal grocery store aisle. I don't know the brand used. The rice was rinsed. (The recipe on the package called for rinsing.) Then the rice was cooked according to directions. A 'fluffy' consistency was a acheived to maintain the air pockets and prevent 'mush'. Then the rice was spooned into the 1/2pt jars exactly like the BRF/verm mixture is, and exactly as is called for in the '9er tek'. After that, the jars were treated exactly as this person treated their BRF/verm jars, and everything was fine.

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OfflineVertigo6911
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Re: Non vermiculite grow tek, beginner? [Re: UpSwell]
    #3782152 - 02/15/05 03:23 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/3264
http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/26016
bunch of stuff on using whole grains, theres a whole rice tek
and some others too...
do u have a pc?
if not, u want one!


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Offlinedeadmoap
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Re: Non vermiculite grow tek, beginner? [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #3782186 - 02/15/05 03:43 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Wow, I was just about to post a thread EXACTLY on this topic. I can't find vermiculite anywhere, either... and I already have everthing else.

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OfflineZeroArmy27
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Re: Non vermiculite grow tek, beginner? [Re: deadmoap]
    #3782467 - 02/15/05 07:23 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

verm is avaliable online, easily.

if you don't want to use verm in your jars, then i suggest getting a PC and going to grains and casing... it's a step up in difficulty, but it's been done before.


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"a monkey would fuck you up if you tried to put it in a autoclave" - Psychoslut

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InvisibleRoadkillM
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Re: Non vermiculite grow tek, beginner? [Re: ZeroArmy27]
    #3783093 - 02/15/05 11:12 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

ZeroArmy27 said:
verm is avaliable online, easily.

if you don't want to use verm in your jars, then i suggest getting a PC and going to grains and casing... it's a step up in difficulty, but it's been done before.




Good suggestion...I agree.

If you can't find Verm...I'd suggest moving on to WBS, or Rye Grain, or Popcorn.
Then casing it.

If you do some reading and ask some questions you won't fail.

Good luck!~


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PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.


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Offlinefacsimile
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Re: Non vermiculite grow tek, beginner? [Re: Knyteguy]
    #3783798 - 02/15/05 02:08 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

I know this sounds crazy and very non-conventional, but fine acquarium sand (something like 1-3 mm) works ok. I used it with rice flour cakes, which I then cased. The water ratio needs to be adjusted, of course. I think you'd probably get enough humidity in the terrarium with regular sand, also.

Try it if you cannot find anything else. It worked for me until I found verm.

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Offlinedeadmoap
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Re: Non vermiculite grow tek, beginner? [Re: facsimile]
    #3783813 - 02/15/05 02:13 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

That sounds like a pretty good idea... I thought that aquarium sand was vermiculite, anyway. Would I just use this in place of vermiculite and just follow the rest of the tek as normal?

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Offlinefacsimile
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Re: Non vermiculite grow tek, beginner? [Re: deadmoap]
    #3788234 - 02/16/05 05:46 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

deadmoap said:
That sounds like a pretty good idea... I thought that aquarium sand was vermiculite, anyway. Would I just use this in place of vermiculite and just follow the rest of the tek as normal?




Aquarium sand is not vermiculite. It's just regular sand. I called it aquarium sand because that's what it's called in the shop from which I bought it. The good thing is that they often have different varieties of coarseness and you can buy exactly the amount you need, so you don't have to carry around a large bag (it's A LOT heavier than verm because it's just rock with no air in it). From the place I bought it from they had about six different kinds of coarseness to choose from. I chose the finest they got, thinking that this would get at least some air in the mix.

With the sand, you will basically do everything as normal, just replacing verm with the sand. To get the water ratio in the substrate correct, I would first wet the sand so that a very small puddle of water collects in the bottom, and then add the rice flour and mix the stuff well. When you pack the substrate in the jars, try to get as much air in it as possible. Do not pack it at all. This because the sand has no air in it like the verm.

The problem I see with this technique is that since the sand doesn't hold water, the substrate dries out quite fast when you put it in the terrarium. So perhaps you should try techniques to make the pinning start as fast as possible. Perhaps exposing the unbirthed cakes to light for a few days before casing. With the casing you could perhaps just try a very thin layer, or no casing at all... And perhaps then cold-shocking could also make things move a bit faster. You could also arrange a spot of sand which you keep wet which would then act as a water reservoir for the mycelium. But this is just me thinking. I don't remember the exact procedure I used, but it was nothing special because it was the first time I grew mushrooms, four or five years ago.

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