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OfflineZekebomb
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Registered: 08/24/03
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meditation really 'necessary'?
    #3787499 - 02/16/05 02:56 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

"if you meditate a lot, you will get good at meditating."

cool, but if I make paper airplanes a lot, I will get good at that too.

"but making paper airplanes isn't as helpful as meditating, because meditating benifits you in other areas."

but the finger-hand-eye coordination I get from folding paper airplanes will cross over in other areas, too. and also, even if I'm sitting there meditating, spiritually awakened or whatever, when I stand up I still have to do the laundry, and who says I'll still be spitirually awakened then?

"oh, but you will be. you see, the benefits of meditation outlast the time actually spent in meditation."

same with the benefits of other things I could devote time to, such as driving, gambling, fishing, masturbating (well, maybe), cooking, etc. anything you do over and over will become easier for you to do, and what you learn in doing one thing repetedly will bleed into other areas of life and help you in a broader sense. why shouldn't I play baseball, or make art, instead of meditating? is meditation any more necessary than doing anything else off the List of Stuff You Could Be Doing? I only have so many hours in my day to devote to non-vital functions.


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: meditation really 'necessary'? [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3787575 - 02/16/05 03:09 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

or, you know, couldn't I make baseball my form of meditation, and so instead of sitting in the lotus position with my fingers held just so, and meditating like that, I would meditate while playing baseball.

it seems like the quality of the benifit received from meditation is claimed to be 'better' than that of playing baseball. isn't that a bit arbitrary?


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: meditation really 'necessary'? [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3787611 - 02/16/05 03:14 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Interesting topic....

Well, when I meditate, I multi-task....  Why waste all that time just breathing, I do that when I sleep(and the rest of the time I am alive)....  Plus I get the added benifits of doing two activities at once....  :smirk:


And I don't really mean this as a joke....  When I play guitar, I zone out - literally....  If freeing your mind from thought is known as meditating, that is what I do when I improv....  Crazy, but not really....   

>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: meditation really 'necessary'? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3787614 - 02/16/05 03:15 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

zone-out = meditation??


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: meditation really 'necessary'? [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3787674 - 02/16/05 03:24 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Zone-out = cleared mind of any and all purposeful thought.... Or pehaps "AutoPilot" mode....?

I dunno~, what is involved in "truly meditating"...?


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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Offlinezahudulallah
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Re: meditation really 'necessary'? [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3787722 - 02/16/05 03:34 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Meditation is over rated.


--------------------


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: meditation really 'necessary'? [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3788062 - 02/16/05 05:22 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

note so much zoning out, but being in the zone. one focus.

so you can play baseball, but if you're in the zone, you have a better chance at playing better baseball.


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: meditation really 'necessary'? [Re: kaiowas]
    #3788140 - 02/16/05 06:16 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

if the mind were nothing I would say yes you could get as much benefit from fondling paper airplanes.

however.

it is not nothing.

all the images, sequences and connections pass through the mind.
only a tiny aspect of the airplane folding will be applicable to all things.

meditation is not about the hands being held just so (airplane folding) or even the posture erect (mastur -i'm ready) althogh symbolically some of these are handy and chackras can be cool.

meditation is a practice that relates to all mental process and all physical process.

zoning out is not even coming close. but if you see no purpose to it, fine.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: meditation really 'necessary'? [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3788186 - 02/16/05 06:58 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Is meditation really necessary? No, obviously not. Many people go through the entire life without ever meditating.

Is meditation overrated? No, I don't believe so, but it is very difficult and takes a lot of time and practice before the benefits are felt.

Is meditation zoning out? No, not even close. In fact, it is the exact opposite of zoning out. Meditation is focusing the mind/awareness to the exclusion of everything. Think of it as practice keeping your mind from wandering from the task at hand. (Zoning out would be the opposite; allowing your mind to wander from the task at hand without realizing it.)

What is involved in "truely meditating"? This depends upon who you speak with. Almost everybody learns a different technique. I would say the parts that are manditory are consistency and focus. It is something that you must practice on a regular schedule while you learn how to keep your mind from wandering.

> couldn't I make baseball my form of meditation

Yes, but until you master meditation without baseball, then baseball can be a distraction to your meditation. A newborn must learn to crawl, then walk, and finally run. Perhaps a few newborns start out running without first learning to crawl or walk, but I have never seen it.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: meditation really 'necessary'? [Re: Seuss]
    #3788257 - 02/16/05 08:15 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

A newborn must learn to crawl, then walk, and finally run.

And after all that time spent, eventually ends up at The Scooter Store buying one of those powered chairs or gets a walker or is bed-ridden. Seems all that walking didn't really pay off in the end. Kind of a waste...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: meditation really 'necessary'? [Re: Swami]
    #3788307 - 02/16/05 08:50 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

swam,
you know it's not who gets buried first who wins.
it's who's tragic meltdown is most infectiously enjoyable


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: meditation really 'necessary'? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3788316 - 02/16/05 08:56 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Nobody has actually tried to say what it's for.

Sure it's mystical melding of all that exists down to a single pinpoint of eternal nowness which blah blah blah...

But why is this desirable?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Invisiblecubed
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Registered: 12/23/04
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Re: meditation really 'necessary'? [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3788367 - 02/16/05 09:22 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Make doing the laundry, masturbating, working, gambling, walking and drinking coffee your meditation.

All life can become the meditation - meditation is not something you have to go and shut yourself off to do. Often this can be really negative, you might be sitting enjoying a nice cup of coffee and watching the birds in the garden, yet be kicking yourself that you should go up to your room and sit and 'meditate'. This actually will take you away from the moment you are in, a trick of the mind. Make the moment your meditation.

Of course the moment may require you planning for the future or suchlike - make that your meditation. Perhaps daydreaming....enjoy all to the fullest.

Be aware - let consciousness envelop you.

This is of course not meant to mean never sit, just to be as you truly are and take benefit where you find it. Perhaps one might need to go and sit at times....that is for one to do. It can be an important stage/part if it actually is. It certainly has been for me, though I do it infrequently at present.


--------------------
booohooohoooohoooo


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: meditation really 'necessary'? [Re: cubed]
    #3788410 - 02/16/05 09:57 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

the purpose is liberation
I think of it more as lubrication
people get enchained in sangsara (habits)

meditation is health regime for the observing and reacting organ

the more healthy this organ is, the more easily all other tasks can be


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Offlinetheorganicdomino
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Re: meditation really 'necessary'? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3788467 - 02/16/05 10:32 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Personally I couldn't go a day without Zen meditation. If nothing else it calms the mind and aids relaxation.

Also, to get a little crude, during sex if I feel like I'm about to climax all I have to do is focus on my third eye until I feel it being tugged (the sensation I get when my mind is totally clear), relax down my back to the base of my spine and I can delay as long as I want.

Picked up that technique through 2 years of practising meditation.

So is meditation necessary?

Up for debate...

Is it useful? - Of course it fucking well is!!!!


--------------------
"You've got to get hold of the thread of marching time, pull the fuck thing down, get on the end of it and pang yourself to the infinitude of absolute mind"
Ken Campbell - Furtive Nudist

"The mystery of life is not a problem to be solved but a reality to be experienced" - Aart van der Leeuw


Edited by theorganicdomino (02/16/05 10:34 AM)


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OfflineZekebomb
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Registered: 08/24/03
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Re: meditation really 'necessary'? [Re: theorganicdomino]
    #3788618 - 02/16/05 11:36 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

during sex if I feel like I'm about to climax all I have to do is focus on my third eye ....I can delay as long as I want.

there, finally a practical application of meditation technique


Edited by Zekebomb (02/16/05 11:42 AM)


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InvisibleJoeChip
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Registered: 02/10/05
Posts: 100
Re: meditation really 'necessary'? [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3788628 - 02/16/05 11:39 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

If you don't meditate you will not get introspective and you'll get lost in the smoky bardo and be reborn in the worst form, a Neo-Conservative Republican!


--------------------
I am Ubik. Before the universe was, I am. I made the suns. I made the worlds. I created the lives and the places they inhabit; I move them here, I put them there. They go as I say, they do as I tell them. I am the word and my name is never spoken, the name which no one knows. I am called Ubik, but that is not my name. I am. I shall always be.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: meditation really 'necessary'? [Re: Phluck]
    #3788690 - 02/16/05 11:58 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
Nobody has actually tried to say what it's for.

Sure it's mystical melding of all that exists down to a single pinpoint of eternal nowness which blah blah blah...

But why is this desirable?




What is it for? For me it starts out like mental and emotional house cleaning. You go through whats there, determine if its still useful or trash and make everything clean, organized and tidy. Then what is kept is put away and the space is left open and clear and clean...fresh.

Its like spring cleaning for the mind body and soul, very rejuvenating.

Then from there it is about centering and balancing. When you let go of everything you naturally slide back to your center and come to a balance place of rest.

That's the most beneficial part to me. Life demands can pull us this way and that and its important to come back to yourself and know the difference between who you are and what others are trying to make you to be for them.

That's what the initial inner house cleaning is for, to weed out the junk of other people I took in, catch where I compromised myself and get put back in MY place of being.

Its a way of lightening up the load and keeping light as well, when you do frequent removal of excess baggage. Life isn't heavy for me.

Practicing keeping your mind on a focal point without distraction has an enormous benefit. Research has been done to show the most intelligent children, prodigy types are excellent at keeping focus and tuning out distractions.

You won't be able to accomplish much in life if you can't stay focused and are easily distracted. So of course practicing that is beneficial, unless it naturally comes easily to you.

There are forms of meditation you can add to the practice like quieting the self down to increase awareness of what was there that you didn't notice before with all the noise and chaos going on. You can catch when things are "not right" more efficiently when you practice quieting the self and increasing awareness of subtle changes.

Think about what it takes to be a Ninja. In today's fast paced, loud chaotic world, with dis-ease lurking and waiting to pounce, Ninja skills pay off big time.

I'm sure I could come up with many more benefits of practicing different forms of meditation as well.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: meditation really 'necessary'? [Re: theorganicdomino]
    #3788748 - 02/16/05 12:17 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Personally I couldn't go a day without Zen meditation.

There you have it folks. Freedom from addiction!  :rolleyes:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: meditation really 'necessary'? [Re: Swami]
    #3788883 - 02/16/05 01:07 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

hahahaa


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