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Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
California = Big Brother ??
    #3785358 - 02/15/05 09:32 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/02/14/eveningnews/main674120.shtml

Officials in car-clogged California are so worried they may be considering a replacement for the gas tax altogether, replacing it with something called "tax by the mile."

"Drivers will get charged for how many miles they use the roads, and it's as simple as that," says engineer David Kim.

Kim and his team at Oregon State University equipped a test car with a global positioning device to keep track of its mileage. Eventually, every car would need one.

"So, if you drive 10 miles you will pay a certain fee which will be, let's say, one tenth of what someone pays if they drive 100 miles," says Kim.

The new tax would be charged each time you fill up. A computer inside the gas pump would communicate with your car's odometer to calculate how much you owe.

The system could also track how often you drive during rush hour and charge higher fees to discourage peak use. That's an idea that could break the bottleneck on California's freeways.


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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: California = Big Brother ?? [Re: cb9fl]
    #3785421 - 02/15/05 09:41 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I am Governor Jerry Brown
My aura smiles
And never frowns
Soon I will be president

Carter power will soon go away
I will be Fuhrer one day
I will command all of you
Your kids will meditate in school

California Uber Alles
Uber Alles California

Zen fascists will control you
100% natural
You will jog for the master race
And always wear the happy face

Close your eyes, can't happen here
Big Bro' on white horse is near
The hippies won't come back you say
Mellow out or you will pay

California Uber Alles
Uber Alles California

Now it is 1984
Knock knock at your front door
It's the suede/denim secret police
They have come for your uncool neice

Come quitely to the camp
You'd look nice as a drawstring lamp
Don't you worry, it's only a shower
For your clothes here's a pretty flower

Die on organic poison gas
Serpent's egg's already hatched
You will crack, you little clown
When you mess with President Brown

California Uber Alles
Uber Alles California


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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: California = Big Brother ?? [Re: cb9fl]
    #3785902 - 02/15/05 10:53 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

There is absolutely no reason to track a car with GPS to determine it's mileage, there are cheaper and less intrusive methods. Why not just raise the tax on gasoline? Why not just check the mileage yearly whenever the car's registration is paid (then perhaps bill the owner in 12 monthly increments for the previous year's driving)? It's bullshit, David Kim is sucking on the taxpayer's teat and wanting to force them to give up more - fucking technocrats.


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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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Offlineerags
Get the most outof your gourd
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Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 97
Last seen: 11 years, 10 days
Re: California = Big Brother ?? [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #3785944 - 02/15/05 10:57 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

"California Uber Alles" Dead Kennedies right?

Vote Libertarian.

Individual rights have to be protected at everystep or they will fall like dominoes. Do you really want to give the gov the ability to track your vehicle , period?


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http://www.bumwine.com/


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: California = Big Brother ?? [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #3785959 - 02/15/05 10:59 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Prosgeopax said:
There is absolutely no reason to track a car with GPS to determine it's mileage, there are cheaper and less intrusive methods.



There is a very good reason why GPS must be used to track mileage. The state of California can not tax it's citizens for any driving they do outside of the state.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: California = Big Brother ?? [Re: cb9fl]
    #3786071 - 02/15/05 11:14 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

This is effectively changing the tax laws in favor of huge gas-guzzlers. Gas taxes tax emissions by targeting the cars that give off the most emissions: trucks and SUVs. With these "tax by the mile" trackers, you pay the same amount of tax for driving a Geo Metro as the Governator does for driving the same distance in his Hummer, even though his vehicle gives off roughly twice the emissions as the Geo Metro.


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Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: California = Big Brother ?? [Re: Silversoul]
    #3786156 - 02/15/05 11:27 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Well personally I was looking much more so at privacy issues.


--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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Offlinejuende
feministpresence

Registered: 02/20/04
Posts: 729
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: California = Big Brother ?? [Re: erags]
    #3786170 - 02/15/05 11:29 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

erags said:
"California Uber Alles" Dead Kennedies right?

Vote Libertarian.

Individual rights have to be protected at everystep or they will fall like dominoes. Do you really want to give the gov the ability to track your vehicle , period?




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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
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Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
Loc: oz
Re: California = Big Brother ?? [Re: cb9fl]
    #3786171 - 02/15/05 11:29 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

you know sucks even more about this?

public transportation is a mess. Bus drivers have their wages reduced, not to mention the CONSTANT breakdowns that occur. the bay area has some of the most heavily clogged traffic yet a city in antioch has been taxed for two decades for a transit system that has yet to be available to them.

we have this system called BART in northern california which has taken over two decades to be built, literally millions of dollars wasted and no accountability.

and now they want to plant tracking devices on us?????

total BS


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
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Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
Loc: oz
Re: California = Big Brother ?? [Re: kaiowas]
    #3786232 - 02/15/05 11:37 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

kaiowas said:
you know sucks even more about this?

public transportation is a mess. Bus drivers have their wages reduced, not to mention the CONSTANT breakdowns that occur. the bay area has some of the most heavily clogged traffic yet a city in antioch has been taxed for two decades for a transit system that has yet to be available to them.

we have this system called BART in northern california which has taken over two decades to be built, literally millions of dollars wasted and no accountability.


total BS




--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: California = Big Brother ?? [Re: kaiowas]
    #3786351 - 02/15/05 11:54 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)


public transportation is a mess.

Have you been on a bus in a major city lately? It is gross. The seats have stains all over them, it smells, and there is always at least one weird person who mumbles to themself or looks crazy.

I'd rather ride in my own car.


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Offlinefaslimy
Dead Man
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Registered: 04/04/04
Posts: 3,436
Last seen: 11 months, 12 days
Re: California = Big Brother ?? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3786528 - 02/16/05 12:27 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Welcome to the road to the New World Order, one world government. Next in line to be fitted with 'GPS devices' will be us (for our safety of course)


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InvisibleDirtMcgirt
in a pinch
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Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2,213
Loc: city of angels
Re: California = Big Brother ?? [Re: kaiowas]
    #3786605 - 02/16/05 12:39 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

The metro transit line here in LA is shit as well. A few crappy metro lines that are so few they use colors to name them. It is pathetic. They have no qualms about spending billions and billions of dollars on newer, bigger highways to encourage sprawl while us in the city get stuck with 4 mile commutes that take 70 minutes to make. The bus system blows and the metro blows but we got a beautiful highway system and the highest gas prices in the country.

Instead of spending money on this stupid shit they should invest in some public transportation for once.

land developers own this fucking state's politics.


--------------------
"And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."


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Invisiblepsilomonkey
Twisted brainwrong of a oneoff man mental

Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 812
Loc: Airstrip One
Re: California = Big Brother ?? [Re: cb9fl]
    #3788095 - 02/16/05 05:34 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I know in the UK they have been toying with the idea of GPS tracking, mainly by insurance companies. The idea is they they can monitor where/when and how you drive (lots of accelerator and brake = bigger premiums). But for road charging they don't need and on-board device, they use roadside cameras and number plate recognition as can be seen with the London Congestion charge.

As for public transport (which I use at most weekdays), I think these guys say it all.

http://www.hivemind.demon.co.uk/London%20Underground.mp3


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OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
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Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,393
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 10 months, 12 days
Re: California = Big Brother ?? [Re: cb9fl]
    #3788336 - 02/16/05 09:04 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Yes, of course the GPS devices for tracking gas mileage would actually contain mind control chips or something.  :rolleyes:

Personally, I think it's a retarded, convoluted idea, but even more retarded is trying to make it something it's not.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: California = Big Brother ?? [Re: Phluck]
    #3788372 - 02/16/05 09:26 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Not mind control, the simple fact that the government would be able to track everywhere you went. And even if you trust the government not to do something like that there are other security issues.

Think about someone breaking into the gps tracking database and being able to locate a person's exact location. Sure would make breaking into a business or home much less risky.

Abusing new power and using it in a manner not originally intended would definately stay with the US's track record.

http://www.dailytexanonline.com/news/200...se-465391.shtml

A North Carolina county prosecutor charged a man accused of running a methamphetamine lab with breaking a new state law barring the manufacture of chemical weapons. If convicted, Martin Dwayne Miller could get 12 years to life in prison for a crime that usually brings about six months.

Prosecutor Jerry Wilson says he isn't abusing the law, which defines chemical weapons of mass destruction as "any substance that is designed or has the capability to cause death or serious injury" and contains toxic chemicals.


--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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Invisiblecubed
Stranger

Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 29
Re: California = Big Brother ?? [Re: Phluck]
    #3788403 - 02/16/05 09:49 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Serious invasion of privacy that is easily corruptable


--------------------
booohooohoooohoooo


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: California = Big Brother ?? [Re: kaiowas]
    #3788597 - 02/16/05 11:23 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

kaiowas said:
you know sucks even more about this?

public transportation is a mess. Bus drivers have their wages reduced, not to mention the CONSTANT breakdowns that occur. the bay area has some of the most heavily clogged traffic yet a city in antioch has been taxed for two decades for a transit system that has yet to be available to them.

we have this system called BART in northern california which has taken over two decades to be built, literally millions of dollars wasted and no accountability.

and now they want to plant tracking devices on us?????

total BS




if you're talking about bay area bus drivers having their pay
cut...WHO GIVES A FUCK!

did you know that the BART drivers are the highest paid train
operators in the US?

MUNI bus drivers are inept fucks...there's so many clammmoring
for those jobs...they should lower the salary and expose those
jobs to greater competition instead of the bearacracy they have
now.

You can still take the train from antioch to the Bart system and
continue.

Be lucky you have what you have up there...the socal train and
PT system is shite.

ps. fuck the mileage tax.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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InvisibleCalifornia
A E S T H E T I C S A T A N
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Registered: 12/27/04
Posts: 69,416
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Re: California = Big Brother ?? [Re: afoaf]
    #3788638 - 02/16/05 11:43 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0%2C2554%2C58616%2C00.html
That is SO not the way to resolve this issue.  It really shouldn't even be an issue IMO.  Oregon has the best roads of any state I've driven in.
It(Oregon Road User Fee Task Force) suggested a tax of 1.25 cents per mile to eventually replace the state's gas tax of 24 cents per gallon.  Great, more than a 100% increase, that is total B.S.!
I will destroy my drivers license if that ever comes into effect. :mad2:
IMO David Kim and his team are heinous douche-bags for even considering this as a plausible solution to anything.


Edited by California (02/16/05 12:52 PM)


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: California = Big Brother ?? [Re: California]
    #3788963 - 02/16/05 01:28 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

do the math, homie.

that's FAR worse than 100% increase.

you get, on average, say, 15 MPG, that's between 1 and 2
cents tax per mile driven.

they want to charge you 1.25 DOLLARS a mile!


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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