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InvisibleSclorch
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Being Vs. Becoming
    #3783792 - 02/15/05 04:06 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I prefer to think of myself not as a human being but as a human becoming. We're a process - mental and physical... never static, always in flux. We change and are changed by the world around us. Be Here Now? Sounds like a stoner's excuse to stay on the couch. I'd rather bring my Now on the road and keep searching, growing, evolving, changing, becoming...


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Being Vs. Becoming [Re: Sclorch]
    #3783820 - 02/15/05 04:16 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Sclorch said:
I prefer to think of myself not as a human being but as a human becoming.  We're a process - mental and physical... never static, always in flux.  We change and are changed by the world around us.  Be Here Now? Sounds like a stoner's excuse to stay on the couch.  I'd rather bring my Now on the road and keep searching, growing, evolving, changing, becoming...




What is it about "Be Here Now" that implies a hinderance of change?  :confused:

Being in the moment involves ones direct, present experience of what is happening around you and in you. This doesn't in any way imply that the process of searching, growing, evolving, and changing does not carry out, only that one's awareness is focused in the situation presented in this moment, in this location. Growth and evolution is a process... how can one properly grow and evolve when they aren't present enough for the individual pieces of the process of growth and evolution?

What benefit is it to be constantly growing, evolving, and changing if one is never present enough to enjoy it as it unfolds?  :shocked: Life isn't just a destination... in fact, I've never heard anyone consciously admit that life is in any way a destination (oh ja, I forgot about heaven, silly me  :rolleyes:), although they sure do seperate themself from their aware experience of the moment in a pointless strive for that destination. :smirk:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleSinbad
Living TheMoment
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Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
Re: Being Vs. Becoming [Re: Sclorch]
    #3783835 - 02/15/05 04:21 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Yes i agree somewhat, becuase at the moment, most of use are more like human robots than human beings, in that we constantly follow our mental programming regardless of the continually changing nature of our existence. Of course our programming also gets constantly updated by our resonses to sensory input and emotional trubulence.

So the process of becomming a human being, first means taking responsability for our condtion and continually attempting to work through our problems by looking directly into there nature. Do not percieve difficult circumstances as obstacles, as these situations are like wakeup calls or possiblilites for growth.

One looks directly, without fear into the nature of ones emotions as they manifest and continually observe ones thoughts and actions.

Nothing is ever static, its always in a state of flux, until we recognise that death could be in any instant, there can be no possiblity or motivation for spiritual growth.

Forgetting our responsabilities in life (to ourselves and others) and avoiding difficult situations only delay and worsen our problems. Im not scolding you here, we all know that this is how it is. Laziness and apathy steal our vitality, i urge you use your wisdom to rid yourself of these demons! Of course we should relax, but try to be relaxed and alert!


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Being Vs. Becoming [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3783860 - 02/15/05 04:27 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Yes presence is also absolutley essential. I agree with your words 100%.

Until enlightenment sometime in the future is no longer a satisfactory goal, it will remain utterly unattainable.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Being Vs. Becoming [Re: Sinbad]
    #3783931 - 02/15/05 04:50 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I had been, I were, I will be, being what I am, becoming.

:laugh:


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InvisibleSinbad
Living TheMoment
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Registered: 12/23/04
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Re: Being Vs. Becoming [Re: Gomp]
    #3783998 - 02/15/05 05:06 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Whats with the avatar gomp? Is that you? Im curious.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Being Vs. Becoming [Re: Sclorch]
    #3784095 - 02/15/05 05:27 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I am a becomer too, being aware of that. I brought this up before as well just to get clear on what people mean by "being in the now". The only way to make it clear for everyone is to say that being is a becoming state.

The being part is being aware of what you are becoming.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Being Vs. Becoming [Re: Sinbad]
    #3784138 - 02/15/05 05:37 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

That's me, indeed it is..  :sun:

"If life were a question, living it could be an answer."
-Unknown :P


"Be been, being"
-unknown :P


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Being Vs. Becoming [Re: Sclorch]
    #3785766 - 02/15/05 10:37 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

There are skills we can master, worldly knowledge we can absorb and ten thousand other things that we can learn to become something other than....what we 'are'. But it also seems debatable that the vast majority of the populace on this planet are highly attuned to That which they truly are, in the first place.

While there are countless functional practical purposes in day to day living for adding new information onto our existing frameworks; is there truly any need to become something when we are speaking of inner-spirituality, and enlightenment - or in other words, attaining inner-peace, stillness and wisdom?
If the quote "Truth is a pathless land" by Jiddu Krishnamurti holds true, then it is indeed futile to seek paths that lead to a state of wholeness and inner-peace, when one is already whole and complete.
"Lest ye become as little children, ye shall not enter thy kingdom of Heaven." -Bible.

So in other words, people try to become something other than what they are, out of dissatisfaction of "what they are".
Instead of building skills and learning new concepts for functions, they strive to build a new identity. They are afraid to be nothing - and as such, they, or rather their egos, are afraid of who, or That, which they truly are.




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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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Invisibleuriahchase
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Re: Being Vs. Becoming [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3785938 - 02/15/05 10:57 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

"be here now"- by ram dass
great book! you should probably read it sclorch!


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Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are -Kurt Cobain
       



     
Hotter than the left sink handle.


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OfflineInfinity
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Re: Being Vs. Becoming [Re: Sclorch]
    #3786052 - 02/15/05 11:11 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

What is the only constant? Change, or flux. Every "thing," every "process" arises out of the void and extends into infinity. The question is, where "are" we in relation to all of this? To quote Pascal: "For, finally, what is man in nature? He is nothing in comparison with the infinite, and everything in comparison with nothingness, a middle term between all and nothing. He is infinitely severed from comprehending the extremes; the end of things and their principle are for him invincibly hidden in an impenetrable secret; he is equally incapable of seeing the nothingness from which he arises and the infinity into which he is engulfed."


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: Being Vs. Becoming [Re: uriahchase]
    #3786302 - 02/15/05 11:47 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

"be here now"- by ram dass

:yawn: Another spiritual teacher who couldn't even get his own teachings after 35 years of writing, lecturing and meditating. When Ram Dass had a stroke a few years ago, he lay on the floor unable to move for hours. He told himself there was nothing wrong. Denial of current reality is hardly "being in the now".


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlineoceansize
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Re: Being Vs. Becoming [Re: Infinity]
    #3786314 - 02/15/05 11:48 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

What is the "self"? Many different processes, thoughts, on many levels. Nothing in particular unites all the parts of the self, they are not hollistic beyond all being conscribed to the same human mind. Can you pinpoint exactly what experiencing the self intails? Some of these processes to change, some others must focus on, otherwise only blurring the definition of this experience.

Like baking a cake- When do you have "cake"? When you have flour, water, sugar, etc.? When they are mixed in a bowl? When it is poured into a pan? How about when it is thrown into the oven. It is arbitrary to pick a point when you have "cake", because this is unimportant- but you can say for sure, when you have the ingredients, that you will soon have cake- or that when you are slicing it, you know you have cake.

You can divide a single second of time into an infinite number of points, but this is also arbitrary, since the human experience needs some amount of time extending past the present. We can't even experience the present, only as fast as waves reach us and then our neurons can fire, around 200 m.p.h.

So what do we have when we look at the experience of the self in the now? A blurry set of processes thinking, A indiscrete piece of time of some length. You can know nothing about the exact moment, but you can know of the immediate future and past. This is why considering the Being is arbitrary, Becoming is the Functional word.

I can think of metaphysical reasons we are continually Becoming as well, but I would rather everyone get that strait from Nietzsche

"Existence really is an imperfect tense that never becomes a present."

"First, reality is an endless Becoming (Werden). Second, as instrumentalist devices language and reason reflect the world not as it is but how our needs require us to perceive it. Third, within religion, ethical codes and scientific practice humanity has institutionalised its values, projected and mistaken them as aspects of being-in-itself. Fourth, the existential predicament is grasped as the imminent risk of having one's belief in reason as a criterion of truth and reality exploded by the unintelligibility of flux and of having, as a consequence, to stare into the presence of nihilism. And, fifth, there is the question of how one can live with a knowledge of the latter abyss." -Freidrich Nietzsche

Just as the man moving towards the wall by leaping half the distance he has to travel- will infinitly approach it but never get there- We are always Becoming, never being- we can never experience "the moment" because the senses and thoughts we would use to do so span more than a single point in time.


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"And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once. And we should call every truth false which was not accompanied by at least one laugh." - Friedrich Nietzsche



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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Being Vs. Becoming [Re: Infinity]
    #3786320 - 02/15/05 11:49 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Right, so if the only constant is flux and change, then being is a changing state of going from being to becoming something else to being that to becoming something else.

Maybe confusion on the flip side is around the word becoming. Becoming can simply mean, becoming a minute older then you were in the last minute. You can become a minute older while sitting still.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: Being Vs. Becoming [Re: Swami]
    #3786665 - 02/16/05 12:49 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

"be here now"- by ram dass

Rammed Ass  :lol:


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OfflineRJLR
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Re: Being Vs. Becoming [Re: shroomydan]
    #3789667 - 02/16/05 04:38 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

......"I prefer to think of myself not as a human being but as a human becoming."......

Implying that your not human means that that your some thing else... animal ?... which I would agree with.
Is being human a moral set of esthetics? 
some thing you learn to be? :smirk: :wink:


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Being Vs. Becoming [Re: RJLR]
    #3789692 - 02/16/05 04:46 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I think he means that we as humans arent static 'beings', but are in a continual process of change and evolution.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Being Vs. Becoming [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3790401 - 02/16/05 07:17 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

"Lest ye become as little children, ye shall not enter thy kingdom of Heaven." -Bible.

Those ederly in nursing homes must be getting r-e-a-l-l-y close then...


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Being Vs. Becoming [Re: Sclorch]
    #3791914 - 02/17/05 06:57 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Although "being" and "becoming" are both processes, "becoming" describes an objective or a goal. "Being" can be seen just as the conscious process of existing.

MAIA


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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/13/99
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Re: Being Vs. Becoming [Re: MAIA]
    #3793128 - 02/17/05 01:36 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MAIA said:
Although "being" and "becoming" are both processes, "becoming" describes an objective or a goal. "Being" can be seen just as the conscious process of existing.




Exactly.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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