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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 18 years, 3 months
Re: Are you an avacado or an onion? [Re: spud]
    #3781277 - 02/14/05 10:30 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

spud said:
It's a question of duality. When it comes to belief in existence you either believe it does or does not exist.



What if you think it's not possible to answer? What if you don't have an opinion? What if you don't know what Spud's definition of 'soul' is? For instance, what if one believes in a soul, but thinks it is a product of his physical body and ceases to exist when the body dies? Is this the kind of soul you are referrring to?


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Are you an avacado or an onion? [Re: Frog]
    #3781289 - 02/14/05 10:31 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I read "Playboy" in braille... (for the articles!)


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: Are you an avacado or an onion? [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #3781316 - 02/14/05 10:36 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

What if you think it's not possible to answer?
Then you lack fundamental rational.

What if you don't have an opinion?
Then they have no opinion. It doesn't change the fact that it can only be one way.

What if you don't know what Spud's definition of 'soul' is? For instance, what if one believes in a soul, but thinks it is a product of his physical body and ceases to exist when the body dies? Is this the kind of soul you are referrring to?
If you read what I posted, I made it clear that it has to do with their on notions on what the soul is, not mine. In fact I said that word for word.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Are you an avacado or an onion? [Re: spud]
    #3781317 - 02/14/05 10:36 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Do you believe in a snizzlefritz?

In the quiet words of the Virgin Mary...come again.


You either believe or don't believe in a snizzlefritz. Any intelligent person should be able to answer a simple binary question.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: Are you an avacado or an onion? [Re: Swami]
    #3781378 - 02/14/05 10:50 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Your point is flawed.

There is a difference between stipulative and lexical words.

You are confusing the two.

C'mon Swami, you should know this.

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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 18 years, 3 months
Re: Are you an avacado or an onion? [Re: spud]
    #3781500 - 02/14/05 11:18 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

spud said:
What if you think it's not possible to answer?
Then you lack fundamental rational.



What do you mean? If one admits that he does not have enough information to give an opinion on whether or not a soul exists he would be lying to give an opinion one way or the other.

Quote:

If you read what I posted, I made it clear that it has to do with their on notions on what the soul is, not mine. In fact I said that word for word.



Really? So if my definition of soul is 'the atoms which comprise my body' that would fit with your idea?

Well, actually what you said was, "When it comes to belief in existence you either believe it does or does not exist. people have notions of the soul." I say some people don't know whether or not it exists. Some people have trouble accepting the notion of a soul because someone else tells them a soul is whatever their notion of a soul is. So if a person doesn't have a well defined idea of what a soul is (it is by your parameters, a thing that is open to highly individual definitions) how can he be know whether or not to believe in it? It is quit a bit like discussing the existence of god and telling everyone that we don't have to agree on a definition.

So what is it, do you believe or don't believe in a snizzlefritz? (Remember, a snizzlefritz is whatever your notion of snizzlefritz is).


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.

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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: Are you an avacado or an onion? [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #3781524 - 02/14/05 11:27 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Anyone can give opinions, that's what makes them an opinion and not fact. If they choose not to, that's their own will.

As for snizzlefritz comment, once again you are confusing lexical words with stipulative words.

An enlightened being would have an idea of what a soul was through literature or whatever means.

As for the un-enlightened, I am not interested in what they think.

Responding to you becomes a bore, you are very circular and are selective with what parts of my posts you read.

Take it all in.

I am making the assumption that one has an opinion, why else would I ask for their opinion? Those who have no opinion, this thread would not be relevant.

Understand?

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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: Are you an avacado or an onion? [Re: spud]
    #3781526 - 02/14/05 11:28 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Oh, and by the way, the original person who said they were neither did not claim to hold no opinion as you say but instead had an opinion and that is to be some sort of hybrid of both.

You should realize that is paradoxical.

I was not stating that having no opinion is impossible, but rather that holding both opinions at once is contradictory.

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OfflineZekebomb
sociophagus

Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 1,164
Loc: BC province
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
Re: Are you an avacado or an onion? [Re: spud]
    #3781575 - 02/14/05 11:41 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Either we have a soul or we don't.


so avacadoes have souls and onions don't?

why are you hating on onions? unless you aren't making the value judgement I assume you to be making....

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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: Are you an avacado or an onion? [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3781582 - 02/14/05 11:43 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Personally, I like both.

I love grilled onions and can't resist onion rings.

At the same time, guacamole is one of the greatest sauces (is it a sauce?) ever.

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OfflineZekebomb
sociophagus

Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 1,164
Loc: BC province
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
Re: Are you an avacado or an onion? [Re: spud]
    #3781590 - 02/14/05 11:46 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

but I bet you've never dipped your onion rings in guacamole. have you.

..I didn't think so.

..me neither.

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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: Are you an avacado or an onion? [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3781597 - 02/14/05 11:47 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

That's blasphemous. My onion rings don't hit anything but ranch.

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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 18 years, 3 months
Re: Are you an avacado or an onion? [Re: spud]
    #3781678 - 02/15/05 12:14 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

spud said:
As for snizzlefritz comment, once again you are confusing lexical words with stipulative words.



Huh? You're the one that gave us the idea that the term 'soul' can be whatever the reader stipulates... or have you forgotten already? What if Swami thinks that 'soul' is a synonym for 'snizzlefritz'?

Quote:

An enlightened being would have an idea of what a soul was through literature or whatever means.



But you emphasized that the meaning of 'soul' was whatever notion happened to be in another's mind. So what is it? Do you actually mean to say that you lied?

Quote:

As for the un-enlightened, I am not interested in what they think.



So you're not interested in your own thoughts? Well I guess it's pretty boring when you only think in binary.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.

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Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: Are you an avacado or an onion? [Re: spud]
    #3781798 - 02/15/05 12:46 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I'm gonna go with onion.

I think that insofar as there is a spirit or soul, something eternal about me, it's shared, not individual. As far as I'm an individual, I'm just temporary, with no fixed and solid core - no soul.

However, this view is a sort of error. When I die, I cease to exist as an individual; however, this isn't much of a change, since my existence as an individual is just a product of the way I see the world, not so much inherent in the world itself.

So, there is an eternal soul; it just isn't me.

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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: Are you an avacado or an onion? [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #3781807 - 02/15/05 12:48 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Notions concluded through systematic studies within it.

For example take a look at modernistic writings. There are a few notions of what the soul is. I didn't mean completely pull a theory out of your ass, but instead align with a well thought out one.

If you asked the enlightened being what the soul was, you would get many different answers but there would be a common ground. That is what I am interested in.

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InvisibleSinbad
Living TheMoment
Male

Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
Re: Are you an avacado or an onion? [Re: spud]
    #3782246 - 02/15/05 04:53 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I am in the sense that if you peel away all the layers you will find nothing, but that awareness which notices the 'nothing' is the unborn, undying, unmanfiested pure spirit, the very core of a human being. Hence oniocado  :grin:


--------------------

Edited by Sinbad (02/15/05 06:53 AM)

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InvisibleThin White Duke
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 51,530
Re: Are you an avacado or an onion? [Re: Sinbad]
    #3782395 - 02/15/05 06:48 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I'm an avacado

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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Are you an avacado or an onion? [Re: spud]
    #3782830 - 02/15/05 09:55 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

spud said:
Are you an avocado? That is to say there is an essence surrounding you, experience has contributed to it. And your outer self is what constitutes the image others perceive of yourself. But take away the outer layer and there is a solid, hard, core that defines you. Something inseparable and everlasting.




I'm thinking that you have implied the avocado to represent pure awareness, the transcendent existance within us all that lies beyond the mind and situations in our life... the fact that we are conscious, consciousness itself. :wink:

Quote:


Or are you an onion. Each layer is an attribute. Religion, profession, ideology, affiliations. Peel away all the layers whom make you who you are and what do you have? What is left once you peel away the layers? Nothing.




Then you have the onion, which I surmise you have used to represent the mind, in that everything the mind identifies with is a layer, and once you remove these layers, there is nothing left to be identified with, no definition left to be had.

I know that this isn't exactly the light you were putting this in, but I'd associate what I have described as pure awareness as what you term the soul, and that I would have to say that the reflection of us as human beings would be more of a combination of both.

You described the outer shell of the avocado as merely what other people perceive of oneself, but almost everyone has a mind that also holds images as to who they are, and I would suggest that these images could be seen as the layers in the onion. These layers are dynamic, always changing, and cannot really be a true definiton of who you are. Thus we remove all of these layers, and what do we have left?

Consciousness, pure awareness. Not a single thought could be running through one's mind, not one definition of who one is, and there would still be awareness.  :grin:

Of course, pure awareness tends to transcend all form, so really it would be both a combination of the avocado and the onion and simultaneously nothing at all. :nut:

:wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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