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deff
just love everyone
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we are all enlightened
#3775378 - 02/13/05 06:18 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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now let's stop deceiving ourself, ok?
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Droz
Love of Life
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: deff]
#3775476 - 02/13/05 06:40 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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will do, Deff.
-------------------- Evolution of Time.
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MAGnum
veteran
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: Droz]
#3775573 - 02/13/05 07:05 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Agreed!
-------------------- Agent 727 7
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deff
just love everyone
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: MAGnum]
#3775587 - 02/13/05 07:09 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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splendid!
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CaptainJailew
Apathetic and Idon't care
Registered: 11/10/04
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: deff]
#3775807 - 02/13/05 08:13 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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I knew it!
-------------------- Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" - Albert Einstein
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Sclorch
Clyster
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Posts: 4,805
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: deff]
#3775880 - 02/13/05 08:31 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
deff said: we are all enlightened
Don't include me in such generalizations.
-------------------- Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: deff]
#3775981 - 02/13/05 08:49 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Some of us are more enlightened than others. *beams*.
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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deff
just love everyone
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: Swami]
#3777560 - 02/14/05 06:45 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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yes swami, your noodle artwork this week was well above the level of the other students
--------------------
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: deff]
#3777646 - 02/14/05 07:41 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah dude!
Looking at it from a less mystical point of view:
I mean when we are children we are like a self-programming computer, ready to program our minds.
We make negative and positive associations (over-simplification).
I think as we get older we become less motivated/able to re-program our old bug ridden routines (anxiety, paranoia, errors in perception are all just faulty programs/code routines).
The deciet: We become stubborn and believe we cannot alter ourselves, so we look to doctors, hypnotists and other physical methods for changing the within. Maybe its because we think its easier that way thus more efficiant. But o'course us enlightened peeps know that mind power is more efficient?
Edited by danoEoboy (02/14/05 07:50 AM)
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deff
just love everyone
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: Ego Death]
#3777741 - 02/14/05 08:20 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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exactly!
we are born enlightened and it is doubt and conditioning that steers our awareness away from it
which is why, the sooner one starts deconditioning (meditation is especially good for this), the easier it is
us saying that enlightenment is impossible will make it an impossibility for us
and anyways, enlightenment is the full knowledge of oneself. it has no prerequisites, no course guidelines, no rules of conduct, and no expectations. no one can convince you that you are or are not 'enlightened' (the word sucks due to how much we've made of it)
there should be no doubt and no shame, just content existence
(and everything lies within)
--------------------
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: deff]
#3778352 - 02/14/05 11:09 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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> we are born enlightened
Then why does a newborn cry when hungry?
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: Seuss]
#3778399 - 02/14/05 11:27 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: > we are born enlightened
Then why does a newborn cry when hungry?
Duh!
To get his mothers attention to the fact that he is hungry.
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: deff]
#3778405 - 02/14/05 11:29 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
deff said:... we are born enlightened and it is doubt and conditioning that steers our awareness away from it
which is why, the sooner one starts deconditioning (meditation is especially good for this), the easier it is
us saying that enlightenment is impossible will make it an impossibility for us
and anyways, enlightenment is the full knowledge of oneself. it has no prerequisites, no course guidelines, no rules of conduct, and no expectations. no one can convince you that you are or are not 'enlightened' (the word sucks due to how much we've made of it)
there should be no doubt and no shame, just content existence
(and everything lies within)
Well said
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MAIA
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: deff]
#3778460 - 02/14/05 11:41 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Where's the enlightenment in something that chooses to grow unenlightened ? Enlightenment is an objective in some paths of life, not something you born with. Is our existence a circular path or a spiral path ?
MAIA
-------------------- Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy. Voltaire
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deff
just love everyone
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: MAIA]
#3778656 - 02/14/05 01:54 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Then why does a newborn cry when hungry?
I do not see how this signifies a state on unenlightenment at all really. We, as "adults", associate crying with suffering, but how many of us can say that we remember the reason we cried as newborns?
If it's to get their parents attention to feed them, then this is a necessary life-sustaining action, as their physical bodies are not at the point of providing food for themselves.
But fine, I withdraw that remark, as honestly I cannot speak for newborns either . However, I will say that I believe they experience a mindstate free of initial attachments and forms, although these things are conditioned very early on. Look at feral children, they are enlightened (but don't 'know' it)
It's almost like the more we are deceived by illusion, the stronger our wisdom of self and reality will become when we reach 'enlightenment' (ugh this term sucks )
--------------------
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,063
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: deff]
#3778667 - 02/14/05 01:59 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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I adore noodle art and I think the noodles adore me too
-------------------- _ 🧠 _
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deff
just love everyone
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*snap snap*
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: deff]
#3778719 - 02/14/05 02:14 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
deff said: now let's stop deceiving ourself, ok?
I wish it was that simple. Self deception is extremely subtle yet evidently gross. In essence there are many methods, but lets not decieve oursleves into thinking we are all enlightened, although ultimately we are, relativly we are most certainly not.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,063
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: Sinbad]
#3778741 - 02/14/05 02:18 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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hence that respectful disgust or compassion for sangsara is everywhere
-------------------- _ 🧠 _
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deff
just love everyone
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ugh.
i repeat, we are all enlightened, no need to fool ourselF
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment
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Im sure its samsara not sangsara?
The first step is to recognise that we create most of our own suffering needlessly, not to decieve oursleves into thinking that we are enlightend.
Once that has been observed and recognised, out of 'disgust' for this state of suffering and disatisfaction, one should seek a path to liberate oneself and all others from this condition.
The deception is in thinking that everyone is already enlightened, when if we look at the state of our world today, it becomes obvious that this is not the case.
--------------------
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deff
just love everyone
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: Sinbad]
#3778809 - 02/14/05 02:33 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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no no no, that's backwords.
we are all one enlightened god, fragmented into delusional self-identities
we have to STOP decieving ourselF to see that we ALREADY are enlightened
--------------------
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: deff]
#3778814 - 02/14/05 02:35 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well thats your ego trip.
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deff
just love everyone
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: Sinbad]
#3778817 - 02/14/05 02:36 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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hehehe
i'm funny
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: deff]
#3778895 - 02/14/05 02:48 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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we are all one enlightened god, fragmented into delusional self-identities
If that were even remotely true and not just words in a book or tradition, then one being achieving/discovering his "true nature" would by inference INSTANTLY free all beings from the illusion.
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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deff
just love everyone
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: Swami]
#3778923 - 02/14/05 02:53 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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no, "Beings" do not exist
there are no separations besides the perception of separation within the second order thoughtsforms of this onemind (as in: first order -> physical 'matter', second order -> physical matter producing thoughtforms) (all of course relative to (these selves of "us")'s unknowable current 'positions')
and when this realization is reached, it is seen that nothing ever existed, and indeed that everything 'ends'. however, individual fragments of consciousness (us here) are not parallel to one another along the non-linear dimension of time. it's not like the realization cancels fragmented experience, as it merely exposes it's nonexistence. existence itself in this sense is infinite, and always oscillating, and yet never moving.
like i said, this stuff evades words, so, i wont try anymore
--------------------
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exclusive58
illegal alien
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: deff]
#3778927 - 02/14/05 02:54 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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We are all potentially enlightened, but of course enlightenment demands thorough work and effort.
I don't think you'd deceive me if you told me that i'm not enlightened.
We just all have to stop getting emotionally hurt when one attempts to deceive us.
--------------------
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: Swami]
#3778943 - 02/14/05 02:57 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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The Buddha after meditating for 7 years arose from his seat thinking that he had achieved enlightenment, and all being were by inference free from suffering also.
He walked to the top of a nearby hill, which looked over a village and saw that beings were still experiencing states of extreme suffering and dissatisfaction, and that he had not helped one single being to be free from this condition. In that instant his ego shattered.
From then on he worked tirelessly day and night to benefit all beings and lead them to the path out of suffering.
--------------------
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deff
just love everyone
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: exclusive58]
#3778947 - 02/14/05 02:57 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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we have to stop looking for what is essentially US itself
we say it's hard because we fear the destination
not 'we', but the false 'self' that arises from comfort delusions
here, I'll paste a poem I wrote:
a single eye cannot see itself so it breaks apart and forgets itself it alludes itself, to itself to know itself to be itself a single self a thousand selves it's all the same and has no name
stuff.
--------------------
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: deff]
#3778973 - 02/14/05 03:01 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Wake up, your still on an ego trip. Wake up!
If you think that you are free from suffering, put your hand in a pan of boiling water. If you feel no pain and your hand does not burn becuase your recognise the illusory nature of the water, then you have achieved enlightenment.
If not you will recieve your wakeup call.
--------------------
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deff
just love everyone
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: Sinbad]
#3778997 - 02/14/05 03:04 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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i am saying that collectively we form an enlightened being
i did not claim self enlightenment
however, I do have a good audacity for pain
--------------------
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: deff]
#3779011 - 02/14/05 03:06 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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no, "Beings" do not exist
Then I guess you will not mind if I crash at your house for a year or two and empty your bank account, smoke your herb, drive your car; etc. Please post your address so that we can continue this experiment and you can demonstrate your hypothesis. As you are me, I am sure you will not mind.
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: deff]
#3779016 - 02/14/05 03:07 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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I do not subscribe to this whole collective concioussness illusion.
Although we are all Borg and Resistence Is Futile!
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deff
just love everyone
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: deff]
#3779024 - 02/14/05 03:07 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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If you think that you are free from suffering, put your hand in a pan of boiling water. If you feel no pain and your hand does not burn
whether or not I feel pain or experience suffering does not detract from the fact that the physical cells of my hand will be damaged. 'My' hand will still burn either way
And so, with the gift of intellect, one avoids bodily harm. Pain is only there to instictualize this. I do not suffer, but I also do not stick my hand in boiling water.
I mean, come on now. I do not fear death, but in order to exist there is a certain shred of necessary attachment to incarnation. I want to exist to help others and so I look after this physical manifestation.
but whatever, call it ego games
--------------------
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: deff]
#3779068 - 02/14/05 03:15 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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I want to exist to help others ...
You already stated there are no others.
(Aside to audience: someone has been reading too much Eastern thought!)
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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deff
just love everyone
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: deff]
#3779071 - 02/14/05 03:15 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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"Then I guess you will not mind if I crash at your house for a year or two and empty your bank account, smoke your herb, drive your car; etc. Please post your address so that we can continue this experiment and you can demonstrate your hypothesis. As you are me, I am sure you will not mind"
Ultimately, I am looking out for the greater portion of US, even if the size itself is relative.
I'll let you in on my plans though:
- I am starting a nanotechnology engineering program next year (for which i need $$$ to complete) - I plan afterwards to work on discovering nano-fuel cells capable of saving our energy crisis, working on cures for currently uncurable diseases, and studying dna (i have a theory on this, but i am looking for much more education) - I am also in a band with very talented friends, and I honestly think that we could 'go somewhere' (and in turn spread awareness through music) - the money that this will alot me will be enough to pay off my debt, then to purchase an island (to build a monestary-like community) - and some other stuff that if I'd mention you'd call me a liar or delusional....
And so, I cannot afford to give my money to you (despite us being the same person), as it will not result in the most relief of suffering
or something
--------------------
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deff
just love everyone
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: deff]
#3779078 - 02/14/05 03:17 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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swami, don't get me strung up on semantics
see really that statement itself is 'false' (as there is no 'me' )
but language is all "WE" have, and so I have to use it.
ps- i read no eastern thought, with the exception of the tao te ching
--------------------
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: deff]
#3779091 - 02/14/05 03:19 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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- I am starting a nanotechnology engineering program next year (for which i need $$$ to complete)
Funny how beings in touch with the omnipotent ground-of-being; the source of ALL POWER and creation; are always strapped for cash...
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: deff]
#3779096 - 02/14/05 03:20 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yep sorry man, your on an ego trip.
If you can leave your footprint in a rock like His Holiness the 17th Karmapa then i would believe that you are an enlightnened being.
If you have even the slightest attachment to this world, then you are certainly not enlightened.
If you believe that by using the intellect one can avoid bodily harm, then you are but a fool.
If you claim to have no selfish motivations whatsoever then you are a liar.
If there are no others, then why stick around!
--------------------
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: Swami]
#3779124 - 02/14/05 03:25 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said: we are all one enlightened god, fragmented into delusional self-identities
If that were even remotely true and not just words in a book or tradition, then one being achieving/discovering his "true nature" would by inference INSTANTLY free all beings from the illusion.
why, and how?
-------------------- -------------------- Disclaimer!?
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: Gomp]
#3779168 - 02/14/05 03:32 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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When a viscious dog chases you and you recognize the danger, do you leave some body parts behind or does your entire being move in concert?
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: Gomp]
#3779179 - 02/14/05 03:35 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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If all beings are one, then when one achieves enlightenemnt we all do becuase we are one.
Unfortunatly this is not true, we are both the dreamers and the dreamt.
If one wakes up this doesnt mean we all do, the dream still continues.
But an awakened one out of compassion can help a dreamer to wake up.
--------------------
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deff
just love everyone
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: Gomp]
#3779180 - 02/14/05 03:35 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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full enlightenment requires the subject ceases to exist (aka- nirvana)
however, to help other parts of existence realize this, certain individuals attach themselves to the suffering of others (re: boddhisatvas)
however, i never claimed to be enlightened. i claimed WE are.
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: deff]
#3779199 - 02/14/05 03:38 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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A Bodhisattva doesnt attach him/her self to anyones suffering or anything. He/she takes on the suffering of others, becuase he/she knows the illusory nature of it.
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deff
just love everyone
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: deff]
#3779204 - 02/14/05 03:39 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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"Funny how beings in touch with the omnipotent ground-of-being; the source of ALL POWER and creation; are always strapped for cash..."
Dude... I'm 17
Uh oh.. guess I'm banned now
see y'all in july (or something)
take care
--------------------
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: deff]
#3779217 - 02/14/05 03:41 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Lots more life experience to be had me thinks. Then you'll know that you are just a suffering being and not part of some cosmic collective enlightenment.
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deff
just love everyone
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: Sinbad]
#3779239 - 02/14/05 03:44 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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you have to be suffering for we are all suffering
you have to be suffering for we are all suffering
you have to be suffering for we are all suffering
you just don't know it
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: deff]
#3779245 - 02/14/05 03:45 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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How about the more obvious and easily-observable idea that does not require borrowed "knowledge" and painfully twisted explanations and apologies: i.e. We are all separate beings!
How totally fucking novel that idea is, eh?
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
Edited by Swami (02/14/05 04:13 PM)
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: deff]
#3779258 - 02/14/05 03:47 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ok deff, go play Buddha in the playground with the rest of the children and stop annoying the adults.
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deff
just love everyone
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: Swami]
#3779263 - 02/14/05 03:48 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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ugh, haven't you heard my argument for why separation is only perceptual and in essence, objective reality is one collective, infinite, nothingness?
it starts with letting go of your sense of individuality (which seems absurd)
and then you'll realize you were always this way, only unaware
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deff
just love everyone
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: deff]
#3779270 - 02/14/05 03:49 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ok, go play Buddha in the playground with the rest of the children and stop annoying the adults.
Hehe, will do!
--------------------
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: Swami]
#3779366 - 02/14/05 04:07 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said: When a viscious dog chases you and you recognize the danger, do you leave some body parts behind or does your entire being move in concert?
Need I escape; I would bring the moving parts I was (in touch? with), of whom which was in neede of the escape.
Our being, as One, would not need to escape no vicious dog, as the dog would as well be the One being? :P
-------------------- -------------------- Disclaimer!?
Edited by Gomp (02/14/05 04:07 PM)
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Loc: In the hen house
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: Gomp]
#3779420 - 02/14/05 04:16 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Our being, as One, would not need to escape no vicious dog, as the dog would as well be the One being? :
Yet, every poster here claiming oneness would run as fast from the dog as those who observe separateness. Once again, showing that people do not believe that which they claim to believe.
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
Edited by Swami (02/14/05 04:51 PM)
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: Swami]
#3779456 - 02/14/05 04:23 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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-------------------- -------------------- Disclaimer!?
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment
Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: Swami]
#3779461 - 02/14/05 04:25 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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I can honestly say that id run straight at that fucking dog, and scream as loud as possible in the most absurdly abnormal manner whilst flinging my arms violently around in the air to scare the fuckin shit out of the animal.
p.s Ive done this many times before, they all retreat with there tails between there legs no matter how big they are.
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: Swami]
#3779471 - 02/14/05 04:27 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said: We are all separate beings!
How totally fucking novel that idea is, eh?
I have to agree here.... Go tell a divorced couple that they are still one....
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: Swami]
#3779496 - 02/14/05 04:33 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said: When a viscious dog chases you and you recognize the danger, do you leave some body parts behind or does your entire being move in concert?
running from your fears, only postpone your fears.. living is dangerous, turn and eat the dog..
"The day you are born, you start dying" -Unknown
-------------------- -------------------- Disclaimer!?
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: Gomp]
#3779512 - 02/14/05 04:36 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yes! But i dont eat the dog, I'm a herbivore
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Posts: 15,413
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: Sinbad]
#3779579 - 02/14/05 04:53 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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*Herbie Hancock trembles in fear*
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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TheShroomHermit
Divine Hermit of the Everything
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: deff]
#3780467 - 02/14/05 08:16 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Edited by TheShroomHermit (02/14/05 08:21 PM)
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: we are all enlightened [Re: Sinbad]
#3780565 - 02/14/05 08:41 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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I will eat the dog. I will eat the dog even if he is a friendly dog...then I will eat another.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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