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InvisibleSilversoul
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A case for worshipping Satan
    #3774854 - 02/13/05 06:25 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

For this thread, I will be making three assumptions:  1)God and Satan both exist.  2)Satan was expelled from heaven for rebelling against God.  3)The snake in the Garden of Eden was either Satan or an agent thereof.

Let's start with the Garden of Eden.  Sure, God the great provider gave us quite the bounty there--Adam and Eve had all they could ever want.  However, they were forbidden from eating the fruit of a single tree:  the Tree of Knowledge.  God had not wanted us to be free-thinking individuals, but rather ignorant servants.  The serpent saw this and saw that it was no good.  Mankind should be free to think for themselves.  So like Prometheus with his gift of fire, the serpent betrayed God's will to give the gift of knowledge to mankind.

Of course, this pissed God off royally, and he banished mankind for refusing the blissful state of ignorance he had granted them.  He eventually got so pissed off at the free-thinking humans that he sent a great flood to kill all of mankind, save for one obedient man's family.  After a number of other atrocities, it is no wonder that Satan became infuriated with God, and led a rebellion against him and his oppressive authority.

Sadly, Satan's rebellion was crushed, and he was banished to the Lake of Fire.  Mankind's last hope for true freedom was crushed along with it.  People would forever be condemned to serve under a jealous, vengeful, authoritarian God.  That is, unless Satan can raise a large enough army to overcome this oppressor.  Let us all show our support for Satan, the true champion of freedom!  :satansmoking:




Disclaimer:  This post does not necessarily represent the views of its author, and is meant merely to illustrate a different perspective.


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Offlinecb9fl
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Re: A case for worshipping Satan [Re: Silversoul]
    #3774930 - 02/13/05 06:42 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Tell me if I get my biblical history correct.

God creates Angels, some of them go bad.
God creates humans, humans go bad.

Who's to blame?

God created everything including not only the physical world but the metaphysical world. All emotions that are possible, all actions that are possible God created or made possible. So death, hatred and everything else we have to deal with now is possible because God created it.

In Milton's words "Let me give you a little inside information about God. God likes to watch. He's a prankster. Think about it. He gives man instincts. He gives you this extraordinary gift and then what does he do? I swear, for his own amusement, his own private cosmic gag reel he sets the rules in opposition. It's the goof of all time. Look but don't touch. Touch but don't taste. Taste but don't swallow. And while you're jumping on one foot to the next, what is he doing? He's laughing his sick fucking ass off. He's a tightass. He's a sadist. He's an absentee-landlord! Worship that? Never!"


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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: A case for worshipping Satan [Re: Silversoul]
    #3774934 - 02/13/05 06:44 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Well, my whole take on the Adam and Eve story was about God creating his first children (in perfect form?), and he gave them paradise - everything they could ever want....  Within that paradise, they were also given self choice in their decisions, like how you would give your own children....  He also (asked or told?) them not to eat from the tree....  They ultimately chose to after being decieved....  I do understand the symbolism of the story, but I don't understand the punishment for a mistake....

If I was a parent to children, and I asked or told them not to eat a cookie in the kitchen, and they ultimately decided to do it anyways, I would not punish them with such an everlasting effect as to effect the rest of mankind....?    Maybe there is more I am not understanding to the story, and I am sure someone will point out my flaws in observation....  We are people, born to make mistakes....?    The burdon of "choice" is a bitch, as it would seem.....

:sun:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: A case for worshipping Satan [Re: cb9fl]
    #3774949 - 02/13/05 06:47 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

cb9fl said:
In Milton's words "Let me give you a little inside information about God. God likes to watch. He's a prankster. Think about it. He gives man instincts. He gives you this extraordinary gift and then what does he do? I swear, for his own amusement, his own private cosmic gag reel he sets the rules in opposition. It's the goof of all time. Look but don't touch. Touch but don't taste. Taste but don't swallow. And while you're jumping on one foot to the next, what is he doing? He's laughing his sick fucking ass off. He's a tightass. He's a sadist. He's an absentee-landlord! Worship that? Never!"




Aaahhhh, the Devil's Advocate....    Crazy how that one boiled down to choice as well....  :smirk:


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I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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Offlinecb9fl
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Re: A case for worshipping Satan [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3774999 - 02/13/05 06:58 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Crazy how that one boiled down to choice as well

Right and if you believe in God you have to believe that he created all the possible choices they could make.

Think of it like this. Absolutely nothing exists. Now I (as God) create a small plot of enclosed land. Outside of this plot of land is absolutely nothing. Now I create a dog on this plot of land. I tell the dog you can shit anywhere you want but I don't want you shitting in the upper left corner. The dog then decides to shit in the upper left corner. Could the dog have shit outside of the enclosed land? No, there was nothing there, not even space.

If you believe in biblical philosophy man may have made the wrong choice but that choice only existed because God made the wrong choice exist and made man able to make the wrong choice.


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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: A case for worshipping Satan [Re: cb9fl]
    #3775071 - 02/13/05 07:11 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I just don't understand the punishment that was handed down for a mistake....  Seems quite drastic....  Seems like a smack on the hand would have been more fitting....    Or perhaps a "three strikes and your out" type of deal....  Adam and Eve were new to being human, it takes a little while to get used too....  Eeeeehhh...?

:sun:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineFiddleMyDiddle
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Re: A case for worshipping Satan [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3775086 - 02/13/05 07:14 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

You can't honestly say that you wouldn't be happier if you were
"ignorant" or lacked free will. If you have no concept of free will,
then you will not miss it.

<begin bad analogy>
God is merely the factory which produces the car (life), Satan is merely the spin-meister that sells it to you for way to much (sin) and with tons of hidden fees (penance).

My father told me to watch out for those salesman, so I'll just go
straight to the factory from now on.


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You laugh at me because I'm different.
I laugh at you because you're all the same.
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Offlinecb9fl
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Re: A case for worshipping Satan [Re: FiddleMyDiddle]
    #3775129 - 02/13/05 07:20 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Of course free will is important but if you believe in a God that is omnipotent do you the believe that he could create more choices that what we currently see? Could he have produced more emotions that what we currently have and understand? If so then how is our current position of free will absolute in comparison to free will based on limitless options?

According to the ideas of an omnipotent creator we have free will within the construct of his existence. That is not absolute existence only the existence he decided to create. Now if he had created existence without the choice to defy him but still with options how is that less of free choice than what we have now?

If you believe in an omnipotent god free choice is always bound by his creation.


--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: A case for worshipping Satan [Re: cb9fl]
    #3775198 - 02/13/05 07:36 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Well, it can't help me but to ask a question.... I know that the 10 Commandments came "to light" much later, but what exact sin did Adam and Eve break under the rules of God....? As far as Biblical meaning goes, I am prolly~ way over simplifying it out of my ignorance....

and I do understand your points CB, and FMD....


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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Offlinecb9fl
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Re: A case for worshipping Satan [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3775216 - 02/13/05 07:41 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Genesis 2:17

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: A case for worshipping Satan [Re: cb9fl]
    #3775249 - 02/13/05 07:50 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

And, [in congruity with that] the Bible also said:
"Lest ye become as little children, ye shall not enter the Kingdom of Heaven."




--------------------
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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: A case for worshipping Satan [Re: cb9fl]
    #3775279 - 02/13/05 07:56 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

That sure paints a picture of a God filled with rage and wrath....  Where's the love, for his children even....    :frown:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: A case for worshipping Satan [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3775284 - 02/13/05 07:56 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
That sure paints a picture of a God filled with rage and wrath....  Where's the love, for his children even....    :frown:



Oh, he loves his children...so long as they're blind, obedient sheep.


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Offlinecb9fl
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Re: A case for worshipping Satan [Re: Silversoul]
    #3775385 - 02/13/05 08:19 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

baaaahh bahaaaah


--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Re: A case for worshipping Satan [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3775455 - 02/13/05 08:34 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
I just don't understand the punishment that was handed down for a mistake....  Seems quite drastic....  Seems like a smack on the hand would have been more fitting....    Or perhaps a "three strikes and your out" type of deal....  Adam and Eve were new to being human, it takes a little while to get used too....  Eeeeehhh...?

:sun:




their "punishment" was the knowledge they recieved. they punished themselves.

It wasn't no cookie they ate. :stoned:


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OfflineMAGnum
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Re: A case for worshipping Satan [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #3775581 - 02/13/05 09:08 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Well, humans were perfect with access to all knowledge in the garden. It wasn't till we oppenned up panderas box full of nasty things and began acting them out that there was a problem. It was all a utopia till people began eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

It is a tree of lies if you ask me.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: A case for worshipping Satan [Re: MAGnum]
    #3775591 - 02/13/05 09:10 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MAGnum said:
Well, humans were perfect with access to all knowledge in the garden.



Then how did Adam and Eve not know they were naked until they ate the fruit?


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OfflineMAGnum
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Re: A case for worshipping Satan [Re: Silversoul]
    #3775594 - 02/13/05 09:11 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
That sure paints a picture of a God filled with rage and wrath....  Where's the love, for his children even....    :frown:



Oh, he loves his children...so long as they're blind, obedient sheep.




Do not get God and the church confused.

The church likes obediant sheep, Jesus, who was God living through man as a divine figure, called for radicals.  In fact, he had constant episodes with him versus the pharisees and scribes. 

Do not let religion ruin the truth of God which is Love, Paradigm.

http://www.angelfire.com/dragon2/prophets/index.html
Love is the Key


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Offlinedeff
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Re: A case for worshipping Satan [Re: MAGnum]
    #3775604 - 02/13/05 09:13 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

what magnum said :smile:


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Re: A case for worshipping Satan [Re: Silversoul]
    #3775628 - 02/13/05 09:21 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Quote:

MAGnum said:
Well, humans were perfect with access to all knowledge in the garden.



Then how did Adam and Eve not know they were naked until they ate the fruit?




true that. They had access to the garden and the tree of knowledge of good and evil WAS right there with them... but they did not possess the knowledge of the difference between good and evil, until they ate the fruit.

when the creator told them that they would "surely die" if they ate the fruit, it was because he knew that humans were not capable of handling that knowledge, and that if we knew of evil, we would eventually choose it.

Before they ate that fruit, they did not know what evil was, so they could not be "punished" for it, they just were bound by it.

It's like if you told your child to not touch a hot stove and they did anyway, their burned hand is not a "punishment", but a natural consequence of the action. In the same way, Adam and Eve recieved the natural consequence of discovering evil, they had to get the fuck out of the garden where the tree of life is.

Sorry Adam and Eve but we can't have logging crews cutting down the tree of life, some of us still want a piece!! :tongue:


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

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