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Invisiblejustanotherguy75058
Stranger
Registered: 01/09/04
Posts: 25
security
    #3770887 - 02/12/05 02:46 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

security


Edited by justanotherguy75058 (04/23/07 01:30 PM)


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Offlinedelta9
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Registered: 10/29/04
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Re: real life experiences affecting hallucinations [Re: justanotherguy75058]
    #3770926 - 02/12/05 02:59 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Who said it is aztec art?  This is the human mind making associations - that is what we are good at...  so if you had never seen aztec art, you would have made some other association, but I think you would have seen the same thing.  That's the beauty of perception - two people can see the same thing and make two different conclusions.

Peace :smile:


--------------------
delta9


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OfflineReprah
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Registered: 01/16/05
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Re: real life experiences affecting hallucinations [Re: delta9]
    #3771646 - 02/12/05 07:09 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah, had you never seen aztech art, you would have had patterns of... I dunno... clouds or whatever.

But that theory goes out the window at higher doses...


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Eat right and exercise. Don't smoke, drink or take drugs. Get hit by a bus tomorrow.


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Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: real life experiences affecting hallucinations [Re: delta9]
    #3771688 - 02/12/05 07:28 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

delta9 said:
That's the beauty of perception - two people can see the same thing and make two different conclusions.




Very well said.


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"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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Offlinesleepysmoker
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Re: real life experiences affecting hallucinations [Re: dblaney]
    #3773001 - 02/13/05 04:37 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

one person could make all those conclusions.


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OfflineMicromegas
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Registered: 02/13/05
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Re: real life experiences affecting hallucinations [Re: sleepysmoker]
    #3773287 - 02/13/05 07:29 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Hey, maybe what you are seeing are scenes from a previous lifetime... Maybe you were an Aztec? Or maybe a fly on the wall of an Aztec temple? This is a pretty wild suggestion, but who knows, really? I often see myself (usually closed-eye visuals, sometimes open, on walls etc) in a jungle... Many tigers and leopards and huge insects and snakes and the like - but why? I understand the chemicals are from nature also, but I've never been in a jungle, so what is the significance, besides enhancing a spiritual relationship with nature? But don't you think it is strange that Aztecs used mushrooms in their ceremonies and what you saw/associated in your visions was Aztec art - Is it only a coincidence that what you saw and what they painted are similar, or are you seeing the same visions that they saw 1500 years ago, elicited from the same, or a similar, substance? I take the view that coincidences merely reflect an underlying connection of forces moving arbitrarily throughout the cosmos, that sometimes bump into each other...


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To remove the misconception, they should know that the space as sky as we can see is not reality, and it exists in false conception. It is not substance and reality. We only say that this is something visible in relation to colour. All phenomena originated in mind and no really outward form? All phenomena only arise from false conception of mind. If the mind is independent of these false movings, then all phenomena disappear. This is the True Reality of the mind which spreads out the glorious wisdom of Tathagata everywhere without exception. That is the original meaning of the Tranquility just as space, it is not the phenomenal space just as sky.
(Ashvagosha, somewhere between 75 B.C ? 80 A.D ? ?The Awakening of Faith in the Mahayana?)


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OfflineBorgFace
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Registered: 11/30/04
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Re: real life experiences affecting hallucinations [Re: justanotherguy75058]
    #3774572 - 02/13/05 05:04 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I can think of something that may account for this.

Jung's archetypes.

Quote:

... there must be a transconscious disposition in every individual which is able to produce the same or very similar symbols at all times and in all places. Since this disposition is usually not a conscious possession of the individual I have called it the collective unconscious, and, as the bases of its symbolical products, I postulate the existence of primordial images, the archetypes.
... the identity of conscious individual contents with their ethnic parallels is expressed not merely in their form but in their meaning.




http://www.netreach.net/~nhojem/jung.htm


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Give me an ounce of civet, good apothecary, to sweeten my imagination!


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OfflineMicromegas
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Registered: 02/13/05
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Re: real life experiences affecting hallucinations [Re: BorgFace]
    #3775719 - 02/13/05 09:46 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Wow, that's amazing, I was reading Jung, quite by coincidence, last night after reading this question and I came across a very similar idea -

'that which appears in the vision is the collective unconscious. We mean by collective unconscious, a cerain psychic disposition shaped by the forces of heredity; from it consciousness has developed. In the physical structure of the body we find traces of earlier stages of evolution, and we may expect the human psyche also to conform in its make-up to the law of phylogeny. It is a fact that in eclipses of consciousness - in dreams, narcotic states and cases of insanity - there comes to the surface psychic products or contents that show all the traits of primitive levels of psychic development. The images themselves are sometimes of such a primitive character that we might suppose them derived from ancient, esoteric teaching. Mythological themes clothed in modern dress also frequently appear. (Jung, 1933)'

I think this could explain the origins of Aztec art in visions, not to mention symbols (ie. the 'sun-wheel') and geometrical shapes that often inexplicably appear...


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To remove the misconception, they should know that the space as sky as we can see is not reality, and it exists in false conception. It is not substance and reality. We only say that this is something visible in relation to colour. All phenomena originated in mind and no really outward form? All phenomena only arise from false conception of mind. If the mind is independent of these false movings, then all phenomena disappear. This is the True Reality of the mind which spreads out the glorious wisdom of Tathagata everywhere without exception. That is the original meaning of the Tranquility just as space, it is not the phenomenal space just as sky.
(Ashvagosha, somewhere between 75 B.C ? 80 A.D ? ?The Awakening of Faith in the Mahayana?)


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OfflineBorgFace
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Re: real life experiences affecting hallucinations [Re: Micromegas]
    #3776137 - 02/13/05 11:12 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Excellent paragraph, I'll have to copy it down somewhere.

In response to the particular "aztec" motif, maybe this will shed some light on the situation.

The following was taken from Shambhala.

Quote:

In the Americas, sacred circles are well known to native peoples. Circles filled with a single spiraling line symbolize the face of god for Huichol tribes in Mexico. Navaho peoples of the southwestern United States create circular "drypaintings" for ceremonial or healing purposes; these are a type of sand painting made of pollen, corn meal, and crushed flowers. Native peoples of the Great Plains construct medicine wheels using the four directions to convey tribal wisdom about life, relationships, and harmony with nature.

This wide dissemination of mandalas among cultures that had little or no contact with one another suggests that all human beings share experiences, concerns, and curiosity as they attempt to know themselves and find a comfortable sense of belonging in the vastness of the universe. Mandalas symbolize the hoped-for harmonious convergence of human and transpersonal realms. Those who achieve illumination may use mandalas to document their experience and communicate it to others.




Oh, and have some shrooms for the reference.

:grin:


--------------------
Give me an ounce of civet, good apothecary, to sweeten my imagination!


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OfflineDeadPhan
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Registered: 05/06/04
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Re: real life experiences affecting hallucinations [Re: BorgFace]
    #3777195 - 02/14/05 04:12 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

bottom line is, at one point, there was no such thing as aztec art. so therefore it was created at some point. so whats to say there isnt a chance that you, another human being, couple thousand years later, have the same visions?


--------------------
 


Big Gulps!  Alright!  Well,  See ya later!
And if i claim to be a wise man, well, it surely means that i dont know!


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OfflineMicromegas
wackyteacher

Registered: 02/13/05
Posts: 29
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Re: real life experiences affecting hallucinations [Re: BorgFace]
    #3777425 - 02/14/05 06:53 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)


Yeah, that's some interesting stuff about the mandalas... Having just uncovered this idea of the 'collective unconscious' I am truly amazed that we/people/cultures share definite symbolic articles despite being thousands of miles apart, and possibly have access to a primordial mental unconscious that began developing millions of years ago... I am sure with further investigation one would uncover thousands of examples more, too. And let us consider also, that unexplained (possibly extraterrestrial) crop-circles share a similar form as mandalas and have an inexplicably produced harmonious structure of concentric circles and bisecting lines... What this might mean is both wondrous and mind-bending...

By the way Borgface, whereabouts in Oz do you hail from? I lived in Adelaide before I came to Korea to teach English... There's no magic mushrooms here unfortunately... I'm sure going to miss the Australian Winter!

Peace... :cool:


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