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InvisibleSinbad
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Guilt - The Biggest Waste of Time
    #3770274 - 02/12/05 09:33 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

What a waste of time this worthless self indulgent emotion is. If one makes a mistake, why not acknowledge it, accept it, try to repair any damaged caused by it, and vow to try not to do it again.

Simple, just get on with life, instead of remaining stuck in a hole of self-pity and immoral emotional self-battery. Guilt in my book is the most pointless of human emotion that inhibits any spiritual and personal growth.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Guilt - The Biggest Waste of Time [Re: Sinbad]
    #3770316 - 02/12/05 09:58 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

:thumbup:

Of course, at the same time, guilt enchances and quickens spiritual and personal growth by giving one the oppurtunity to experience a seperating, negative emotion, a subsequent consequence of having an error in one's mental programming, thereby giving the person the oppurtunity to become aware of the way their mind creates their experience and dictates our experience, which therefore opens up the possibillity of correcting flaws in one's mental programming. Doing this opens one to a higher level of spiritual understanding and experience, which equals k3y. :laugh:

:wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Guilt - The Biggest Waste of Time [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3770332 - 02/12/05 10:08 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Well, hmmm, I'm not so sure that guilt IS the negative emotion, its more of a lingering or indulging in that negative emotion in order to beat oneself up about past actions. In that sense its certainly counter productive to spiritual growth and one of the biggest obstacles in life if one makes a habit of it.

There's nothing wrong with experiencing the consequences of ones negative actions, but letting go, forgiving, and getting on with life is essential. Beating up oneself is an act of violence, and has no place in any spiritual path.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Guilt - The Biggest Waste of Time [Re: Sinbad]
    #3770339 - 02/12/05 10:13 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

So, then, guilt is a complex of negative emotion? :grin:

I understand what guilt is, and I was simply noting that the experience of guilt can be an important lesson that will assist spiritual growth, as any experience can. Constantly dwelling in a complex of negative emotions and thoughts is not going to benefit one's spiritual growth, unless, of course, it does. :grin: I fail to see spiritual growth as being linear or bound to any length of time - it is pretty free form, many important lessons might take a lot of time to review before moving on. :wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Guilt - The Biggest Waste of Time [Re: Sinbad]
    #3770350 - 02/12/05 10:18 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

"letting go, forgiving, and getting on with life is essential."

Easier said than done in many cases. But, like you say, quite important to growth. Forgiving oneself can be even harder than forgiving others for the guilt obsessed.


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Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Guilt - The Biggest Waste of Time [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3770365 - 02/12/05 10:24 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

If you are suggesting that spiritual growth can be limitless, then i whole heartedly agree. But i have witnessed people who have been stuck in guilt for what seems like their whole lives, its not a pretty sight.

Its like watching a person slowly rot in a prison cell and not being able to break them free, its unbearable. :frown:

Maybe the only lesson to learn from guilt, is not to get stuck in that state again.


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Guilt - The Biggest Waste of Time [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #3770397 - 02/12/05 10:41 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

This is true.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Guilt - The Biggest Waste of Time [Re: Sinbad]
    #3775856 - 02/13/05 10:25 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Sinbad said:
What a waste of time this worthless self indulgent emotion is. If one makes a mistake, why not acknowledge it, accept it, try to repair any damaged caused by it, and vow to try not to do it again.

Simple, just get on with life, instead of remaining stuck in a hole of self-pity and immoral emotional self-battery. Guilt in my book is the most pointless of human emotion that inhibits any spiritual and personal growth.



Too bad there wasn't any Bible coverage of Jesus' teachings on guilt.

Maybe those teachings just ended up on the cutting room floor.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Guilt - The Biggest Waste of Time [Re: Sinbad]
    #3775988 - 02/13/05 10:50 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I feel guilty for all the time I wasted indulging in this useless emotion.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Onlinedeff
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Re: Guilt - The Biggest Waste of Time [Re: Swami]
    #3777563 - 02/14/05 08:48 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

does not compute!11

*explodes*


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Guilt - The Biggest Waste of Time [Re: Sinbad]
    #3777598 - 02/14/05 09:16 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Sinbad said:
What a waste of time this worthless self indulgent emotion is. If one makes a mistake, why not acknowledge it, accept it, try to repair any damaged caused by it, and vow to try not to do it again.





true a waste.
if it repeats - rather than adding to the baggage of vows (you may have already accummulated quite a few) you can use disgust, to help passively distance yourself from it.

disgust includes a huge dollop of dignity, which guilt does not.
disgust has spine.

the vows should not be treated lightly - that magick is for bigger jobs, most of the guilt issues are mere melodrama or lingering psycho drama.

so to keep it light "why not acknowledge it, accept it, try to repair any damaged caused by it"

then invoke dignity if you relapse, save the vows - those are the big guns


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Guilt - The Biggest Waste of Time [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3777870 - 02/14/05 11:15 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Yes digust is a very effective way of dealing with our negative tendencies. The more disgusted you are with dwelling in negativity, the more motivation there is for you to change. Vows arent baggage, just marked recognition for corrective behaviour.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Guilt - The Biggest Waste of Time [Re: Sinbad]
    #3777927 - 02/14/05 11:32 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Sinbad said:
Yes digust is a very effective way of dealing with our negative tendencies. The more disgusted you are with dwelling in negativity, the more motivation there is for you to change. Vows arent baggage, just marked recognition for corrective behaviour.




I'm sorry, but all I see here is a neverending cycle of shifting emotions, continously spinning 'round and 'round, counteracting each other and never reaching a spiritual, transcendant peace. :grin:

How is disgust an effective way to deal with negative tendencies? To create a feeling that almost completely refuses that an aspect of reality could be the way that it is, and to take offense by it? How is taking offense at reality helping solve a negative tendency? All I see is the creation of a new, more seperating negative tendency.  :smirk:

Acceptance of each and every aspect of reality as it unfolds is necessary in every moment. It is impossible to refuse to accept reality, and attempting to mentally creates very disruptive, painful suffering that effectively blinds ones ability to perceive reality as it stands, which is absolutely necessary to be able to exist in a higher state of consciousness.

Negative emotions do not beget anything except more negative emotions. Positive reinforcement is the only way to go here. :grin: Don't bother trying to change attachments to emotions by creating new attachments to emotions, it only makes the problem worse. Seek transcendence. :laugh:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Onlinedeff
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Re: Guilt - The Biggest Waste of Time [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3777997 - 02/14/05 11:47 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

zonk! :smile:


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Guilt - The Biggest Waste of Time [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3778008 - 02/14/05 11:49 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Not true, disgust can be quite positive, in that it makes you averse to your previous actions and thereby cuts away a little at your uncontrolled reactions.

A disgusted reaction to what you have done makes it less likely for you to repeat that action, then no reaction at all. This doesn't mean dwelling in that negativity, only initial disgust then vows of reformation. Its better to cut through a negative habit with initial disgust than to passively accept it, and let it go on repeating itself.

Its like cutting the branch of attachment to that habit a little, you may repeat it again, but next time the subsequent mental programming associated with that action will be less due to your disgust. Instead of strengthening that habit, your slowly cutting away at it. It may not be a very direct approach, but it functions slowly to bring about change.

If a rapist likes to rape, your telling him basicly to 'accept that negativity' which is not wise.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Guilt - The Biggest Waste of Time [Re: Sinbad]
    #3778068 - 02/14/05 12:00 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Sinbad said:
If a rapist likes to rape, your telling him basicly to 'accept that negativity' which is not wise.




It is the wisest thing that can be done, because before any real healing can be done, the problem has to be accepted as it stands, just as all of reality needs to be accepted, so that there is not a distortion between reality and your understanding of reality. It certainly isn't the only step, and nowhere is it implied that one cannot take steps towards change, which is happening in every single second in every part of the universe.

It must be noted that what you are suggesting is merely the altering of the very mental programming you proclaim to wish to cut attachments to. One has to transcend these glitched thought processes and the subsequent experience of seperating emotions completely so that one can exist in the Now, directly, clearly aware of reality as it is occuring, experiencing life centered in being, so that one can bring about the change one wishes to bring about.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Onlinedeff
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Re: Guilt - The Biggest Waste of Time [Re: Sinbad]
    #3778073 - 02/14/05 12:01 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

but the reason the rapist likes to rape is because he has a mental attachment to it

want nothing and you'll have everything


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Guilt - The Biggest Waste of Time [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3778274 - 02/14/05 12:45 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

A being that is completely attached, is like a moth to a flame. To teachthat moth to be disgusted with the sight of the flame, although it is as you say another form of mental programming, its stills vital for the protection of that moth.

Its not a universal panacea, but it functions to help the moth avoid the flame. You must understand that different beings have different capacities. Someone who is caught up completely in attachment, every second of ever day, unaware and uncontrolled in his/her condition, its sometimes necessary especially where negative actions are concerned to have lost of methods for dealing with this attachment.

Unfortunately not everyone can just "Be here Now", some lack the capacity to do so. For those in dyer circumstances, that have many negative habits, and lack the capacity to just 'Be here Now' it is essential to have concrete methods for working with such habits, reactions and associations, for change to take place.


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Edited by Sinbad (02/14/05 04:18 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Guilt - The Biggest Waste of Time [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3778319 - 02/14/05 12:57 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:

How is disgust an effective way to deal with negative tendencies? To create a feeling that almost completely refuses that an aspect of reality could be the way that it is, and to take offense by it? How is taking offense at reality helping solve a negative tendency? All I see is the creation of a new, more seperating negative tendency.  :smirk:
:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:




yes yes transcendence is good (be attracted) and when confronted with something you like or are neutral to - yes sure acceptance.

to transcend (isn't that like separating from the lower nature) one needs to take the right orientation.

this orientation or attitude is precisely what I mean by dignified disgust. Of course one does not separate at all, one merely hesitates to engage. all is one you know -

it is a nice attitude I think some people call it Karuna or Compassion. to have this transcendent dignified presence (attitude) one assumes disgust with sangsara and is transcending yet not separating.


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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