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Re: Jesse Helms [Re: Innvertigo]
    #380357 -

"I'm not a conservative. I'm a Libertarian "

emmmm, thats like saying, im not a liberal, im a socialist.

"I want you to name one time i've ever said that homos don't have the right to do what they do. I'll be looking for your answer with bells on!! I merely stated that i don't have to accept this practice, no matter how much the libbies whine."

Okay, so you dont openly discriminate, i never claimed you yourself did, im sorry for using that inference being present. And as i agree that it is possible to tolerate without approval, ill leave that as it is.

"and marriage is between a man and a wife. "

says who? the bibile, chrisitians? just because one religion says it is wrong, does that make it applicable to all peoples and denominations? it is merely a statute of modern custom, and it is slowly starting to change, much like the outdated marijuana laws in Europe and still in amerika.

"I hope your right. I believe that discriminating anyone for their personal life is wrong. However i also believe that i and others have the right NOT to accept it. "

this is where i get confused on the acceptance issue. if your not accepting the fact that it happens and always will, well its never going to change. please clarify.

". I hate the Sin and Love the sinner...platonocally ofcourse..... "

this is another point i get confused on. how can you hate an act, but not the person commiting that act as a expression of free will? unless you believe all evil is controlled by the devil, but ill give you more credit than that. please clarify.

"When did i say that i belonged to this group? (yet another accusation i'd love for you to explain) Am i to understand that anyone that believes in God is a wacko? "

well, anyone in the christian right wing movement is a wacko in my mind, the same rights that protect their worship of a guy on a cross is the same one that should protect the beliefs and actions of gays. and, if you read, i explicitly made the note that you werent one of these people, its just that a overwhelming majority of those types are conservative christians.

goddam white kids


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goddam white kids

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Re: Jesse Helms [Re: capncracker]
    #380532 -

****emmmm, thats like saying, im not a liberal, im a socialist****

Then you don't know what a libertarian is.

****Okay, so you dont openly discriminate****

I don't discriminate at all and there is nothing that says i do.

****says who? the bibile, chrisitians? just because one religion says it is wrong, does that make it applicable to all peoples and denominations? ****

Actually a majority of religions are against it....THE ACT...but that's neither here nor there because i never mention that was a religious belief.

mar?riage
Pronunciation: 'mar-ij

1 a : the state of being married b : the mutual relation of husband and wife : WEDLOCK c : the institution whereby men and women are joined in a special kind of social and legal dependence for the purpose of founding and maintaining a family

The dictionary isn't religious is it?

****this is where i get confused on the acceptance issue. if your not accepting the fact that it happens and always will, well its never going to change. please clarify.****

My beliefs don't change with the weather like liberals beliefs do. Just because everyone is doing it does not make it right. I'm not saying that i don't accept that it happens, i'm saying i don't accept the fact that it's the right thing to do. As i've said in other forums this act turns my stomach. However they can do, what they want to do..and i will as well.

****this is another point i get confused on. how can you hate an act, but not the person commiting that act as a expression of free will? unless you believe all evil is controlled by the devil, but ill give you more credit than that. please clarify. ****

Christians believe that Evil is a result of the devil. Therefore i won't get pulled into that type of argument where i need to explain this to you. However, I have the freewill to feel sorry for homos because they are misguided. I have many people in my life that i agree with almost nothing they do in their personal life but get along with them reguardless of their personal preferences. Yet again, Hate the Sin, Love the Sinner...i won't be the one to judge them in the end.

****well, anyone in the christian right wing movement is a wacko in my mind, the same rights that protect their worship of a guy on a cross is the same one that should protect the beliefs and actions of gays****

Please explain to me what a christian right wing movement is and what makes them wacko? It's too bad there are liberals out there that would love to remove this right from them. I still stand by my accusation that liberals have no problem with removing rights from those that don't agree with them at the same time suggesting that they are open-minded.

****if you read, i explicitly made the note that you werent one of these people****

Last Post: ****im not accusing you of being one of these people, its just that you claim to belong to this group.****

Which one is it then? are you accusing me or am i claiming to be a religious nut?....and when did i claim to be part of that group?

Words mean things...think

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Jesse Helms [Re: Innvertigo]
    #380689 -

hey, to cap this discussion... Click Here to hear what our pal Bill Hicks had to say about Senator Helms (RealPlayer required)

Everything you know is wrong.
****
Bill Hicks' Gifts of Forgiveness


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Everything you know is wrong.
****
Bill Hicks' Gifts of Forgiveness

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Re: Jesse Helms [Re: Innvertigo]
    #380840 -

i dont really have time to respond to this whole post, as a lot of it is just you more or less explaining your view points, some of which i agree and disagree with, so im not going to try and change your mind, they are yours.

"Then you don't know what a libertarian is. "

well seein as how i briefly belonged to the party, i guess you should explain how a libertarian isnt an ultra conservative, much like a socialist or anarchist is a ultra liberal.

"Please explain to me what a christian right wing movement is and what makes them wacko? It's too bad there are liberals out there that would love to remove this right from them. I still stand by my accusation that liberals have no problem with removing rights from those that don't agree with them at the same time suggesting that they are open-minded."

well you should know the definintion of wacko, you used it first, mine was just a juxtaposistion. but going by standard usage, their fanatical apprehension to anything not explicitly spelled out as not a sin in the bible, to any new technological acheivement that THEY interpret as being against the will of god, and their desire to make everyone hold the same value and belief system as them (forcing prayer into schools, bible study groups, etc), because, as we all now, freedom of religion is only for christians.

"Please explain to me what a christian right wing movement is and what makes them wacko? It's too bad there are liberals out there that would love to remove this right from them. I still stand by my accusation that liberals have no problem with removing rights from those that don't agree with them at the same time suggesting that they are open-minded. "

see above post and make note of something for me, who is it worse to give your rights up to, the government or corporations? oh, thats right, conservatives have no problem making them one in the same.
"Facism is nothing more than state-sponsered capitalism."

"Which one is it then? are you accusing me or am i claiming to be a religious nut?....and when did i claim to be part of that group? "

being a conservative, as many of the religious right people are, you fall into the same category and vote for the same leaders-and dont claim to be a libertarian on this, i know you chicken shitted out and voted for bush.

as for the marriage right, i cant get up a dictionary right now, but then why is this definition ignored in Hawaii and most of Europe?

goddam white kids


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goddam white kids

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Re: Jesse Helms [Re: capncracker]
    #381061 -

Capncracker, I'm also not responding to your entire post; just the part where you ask why libertarian isn't the same thing as ultra-conservative. A few years ago, before I was familiar with the concept of libertarianism, one of my feminist, Republican girlfriends made a comment about libertarians being "ultra-liberals." Libertarians are neither left nor right; you have to view them up and down, with down being authoritarianism. In brief, libertarians believe everyone should be free to do as they choose, so long as they don't infringe upon the equal freedom of others. This basically means that government should stay out of the way except in situations where people are directly causing effects on others. There is a misconception that conservatives don't like big government and liberals do. Not so. In general, liberals like big government in the workplace but not in the home. Conservatives like big government in the home but not in the workplace. Libertarians don't want government in either place unless equal freedom could be infringed upon.

Edited by zetek on 08/28/01 09:59 PM.


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Re: Jesse Helms [Re: capncracker]
    #381305 -

****well seein as how i briefly belonged to the party, i guess you should explain how a libertarian isnt an ultra conservative, much like a socialist or anarchist is a ultra liberal. ****

I hope this helps: God knows you need it

Libertarians are self-governors in both personal and economic matters. They believe government's only purpose is to protect people from coercion and violence. They value individual responsibility, and tolerate economic and social diversity.

Right-conservatives prefer self-government on economic issues, but want official standards in personal matters. They want the government to defend the community from threats to its moral fiber.

Left-Liberals prefer self-government in personal matters and central decision-making on economics. They want government to serve the disadvantaged in the name of fairness. Leftists tolerate social diversity, but work for economic equality.

Authoritarians want government to advance society and individuals through expert central planning. They often doubt whether self-government is practical. Left-authoritarians are also called socialists, while fascists are right-authoritarians

****well you should know the definintion of wacko, you used it first***

Previous post ****why do i always see these facist religious nuts****

Ok wacko's the wrong word..is nut more appropriate?

****because, as we all now, freedom of religion is only for christians.****

Is not Aetheism (SP) a religious belief? Why is it that they get to spread their beliefs in public forums and christians cannot?

****who is it worse to give your rights up to, the government or corporations? ****

You should never give up your individual rights to anyone. Well since you are a liberal i can bet that you have no problem giving up your rights to the former as opposed to the latter.

****"Facism is nothing more than state-sponsered capitalism." ****

What in the hell are you talking about....do you even know what your talking about? Who brought up facism. We've already came to the conclusion that you don't even have a clue as to what are the different philosphical beliefs. Go back to school.

****conservatives have no problem making them one in the same. ****

**sigh** do you even have the slightest clue?

****being a conservative, as many of the religious right people are, you fall into the same category and vote for the same leaders-and dont claim to be a libertarian on this, i know you chicken shitted out and voted for bush. ****

You never explained why these people are "NUTS" is it because of their beliefs or is it that you HATE them for haveing them? You are starting to show your insecurities of your own beliefs. I'd be surprised if you even had any.

As for my Voting record i am a very smart voter. I vote for the people who have a snowballs chance in hell to win that closest represent my views. Green was a fucking Communist, Gore was a mega-socialist with all the personality of a brick, Mckain is a liberal, Harry Browne dosn't stand a chance in getting 4% because (in my opinion) he doesn't make enough of an effort to win and doesn't know how to play the game to get your point across. I voted for bush, and as it stands so far i'm happy on many issues oil drilling, missle defence, getting out of Kyoto, and the new treatment of china. Personnaly i would of liked to see Harry Browne win to prove me wrong but he did not.

who did you vote for? Gore?..ha

****as for the marriage right, i cant get up a dictionary right now, but then why is this definition ignored in Hawaii and most of Europe? ****

I'll await your intellectual indeavors. As for Hawaii and Europe? I don't give a shit about Europe so they can do what they want and as for Hawaii they must not know how to read because if we are going to live in a society where words mean things then their aren't "GAY" marriages in Hawaii...just Gay unions...which is fine by me.

THINK

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....

Edited by Innvertigo on 08/29/01 08:40 AM.



--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Jesse Helms [Re: Innvertigo]
    #381318 -

In reply to:

Is not Aetheism (SP) a religious belief?



No, by definition, atheism is not a religious belief. It is the antithesis of that.

re?li?gion (r-ljn)
n.
1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.

a?the?ism (th-zm)
n.
1. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
2. The doctrine that there is no God or gods.

"We're all atheists. I just dis-believe in one more god than you do."



Edited by zetek on 08/29/01 09:11 AM.


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Re: Jesse Helms [Re: zetek]
    #381324 -

****a?the?ism (th-zm)
n.
1. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
2. The doctrine that there is no God or gods.

"We're all atheists. I just dis-believe in one more god than you do." ****

Thank you, you've just proved my point. If you choose to believe in nothing it is still a choice in beliefs. On the opposite spectrum Christians (moslems, etc.) choose to believe in a higher being. With this in mind it is fair to say that Aetheist have no right to push their "NON-belief" beliefs in a public setting? I'm dying to hear the answer to this one. Please explain.

We are not all Atheists.....a majority of the world are Theists

the?ism ('thE-"i-z&m)

belief in the existence of a god or gods; specifically : belief in the existence of one God viewed as the creative source of man and the world who transcends yet is immanent in the world

Hey a Billion Muslems in India can't be wrong

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Jesse Helms [Re: Innvertigo]
    #381326 -

It is at most a choice to not believe (more accurately, a simple lack of belief) but not a religion. A religion by definition REQUIRES a belief in a god or gods. No god = no religion.

"We're all atheists. I just dis-believe in one more god than you do." This is tongue-in-cheek. It's point is that theists reject many gods, atheists reject all gods. I'm quite aware that the vast majority of people in the world are theists.

Edited by zetek on 08/29/01 10:24 AM.


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Re: Jesse Helms [Re: Sir Tokes-A-Lot]
    #381335 -

Back to Jesse Helms...



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Re: Jesse Helms [Re: zetek]
    #381395 -

that's funny....but man do theses people sound bitter...sheesh..ha

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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