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OfflineFungus_Farmer
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I'm about to dunk and...
    #3763437 - 02/10/05 08:09 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

My jars are nearly 100% colonized, and I'll be dunking a few in a week or so. I'm a little confused though. PF said in his tek that water droplets will drown the mycelium (as in spraying). If this is true, then how is it possible that dunking for 12 hours won't do anything bad to the mycelium? I know that dunking is a proven tek, and that PF is a proven master of growing mushrooms, so why the contradiction? If tiny water droplets will harm the cake, then how can you literally soak the entire cake for a prolonged period of time and still be okay?


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Excerpt from one of my textbooks:
Therefore, between a then and its matching else, there cannot be an if statement without an else. Statements must be distinguished between those that are matched and those that are unmatched, where unmatched statements are else-less ifs and all other statements are matched.
I wonder if that would make more sense if I was tripping when I read it.


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InvisibleNeedMoreSleep
OCD = 100%Sterility :-)

Registered: 01/25/05
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Re: I'm about to dunk and... [Re: Fungus_Farmer]
    #3763453 - 02/10/05 08:11 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

The water won't kill the myc... Now, if you left em dunked for more than 24 hrs, the water could kill the myc...


--------------------

"Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil,
which we must fear most. And that is... the indifference of good men."
-Boondock Saints


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OfflineFungus_Farmer
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Re: I'm about to dunk and... [Re: Fungus_Farmer]
    #3763555 - 02/10/05 08:28 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I'm aware that it won't kill the myc, otherwise nobody would dunk their jars. The question is why did PF say that water droplets would hurt the myc when spraying, and why spray shields are recommended to protect the cakes from water, when you can dunk them and they'll be fine? Makes no sense to me. Why all this effort to protect the cakes from water droplets when we don't hesitate to dunk them for several hours? Someone please explain this, it's killing me.


--------------------
Excerpt from one of my textbooks:
Therefore, between a then and its matching else, there cannot be an if statement without an else. Statements must be distinguished between those that are matched and those that are unmatched, where unmatched statements are else-less ifs and all other statements are matched.
I wonder if that would make more sense if I was tripping when I read it.


Edited by New_Shroomer81 (02/10/05 08:30 PM)


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OfflineLaughingJim
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Re: I'm about to dunk and... [Re: Fungus_Farmer]
    #3763668 - 02/10/05 08:46 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

PF, I am sure, assumes that the readers understand that he is refering to standing droplets of water. Drops that pool for days in the same spot. That could have been made slightly more clear.

This is less of an issue with developing mycelium, prior to pinning. When the mycelium switches modes into production, (Post pinning), little energy is spent towards further network development. The greater half of energy is now going towards developing fruits from all the food that was collected.

The cold shock is used to cause the whole cake to switch into this mode all at once, as opposed to switching only the outside, while the inside is still in grow mode, not fruit mode.


--------------------
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Invisibledog
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Re: I'm about to dunk and... [Re: LaughingJim]
    #3763818 - 02/10/05 09:06 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The cold shock is used to cause the whole cake to switch into this mode all at once, as opposed to switching only the outside, while the inside is still in grow mode, not fruit mode.




This statement makes no sense. What possible advantage could there be to "switching the inside" of a cake to fruit mode?

On what do you base this opinion?


--------------------


Fascism (fash'izem) n. A governmental system marked by a centralized dictatorship, stringent socioeconomic controls, and often belligerent nationalism. see also: the Bush Administration.


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OfflineFungus_Farmer
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Registered: 01/13/05
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Re: I'm about to dunk and... [Re: LaughingJim]
    #3763917 - 02/10/05 09:25 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

The water part of what you said makes sense, so unless there's any more controversy on that subject that will work for me.


--------------------
Excerpt from one of my textbooks:
Therefore, between a then and its matching else, there cannot be an if statement without an else. Statements must be distinguished between those that are matched and those that are unmatched, where unmatched statements are else-less ifs and all other statements are matched.
I wonder if that would make more sense if I was tripping when I read it.


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: I'm about to dunk and... [Re: Fungus_Farmer]
    #3763939 - 02/10/05 09:30 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Here goes MUSHROOMS LOVE WATER! Water hydrates a cake because the cakes become depleted of water during substrate colonization. You want the cases hydrated so they will pin #1 more prolific and #2 yield is increased not because of more pins necessarily but for the larger fruitbodies too. Cakes can be dunked up to 48hrs. (but no more) if need be with little damage. Now heres the thing misting during pinning in most cases will damage developing primordia if done with anything other than a VERY fine mist so this is why I recommend newbies once they see the myc poking thru the casings surface evenly to stop misting during the primordia formation (a few days) or until your little redheads start expanding this will indicate that your pins are set and ready for very fine misting again. Always remember several light mistings over time is beneficial to the casing surface and to primordia formation rather than one heavy misting this is proper water delivery along with a "nearly saturated" casing. Read the pinning strategy thread in the archives to learn more about what a nearly saturated casing actually is. GL guys


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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OfflineTheProdigy
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Re: I'm about to dunk and... [Re: hyphae]
    #3764099 - 02/10/05 09:57 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

So you should mist them up until the point of pinning after the cakes have been birthed?

Should you use a % peroxide solution for this stage?


--------------------

If you haven't gone to http://www.boohbah.com while you are tripping... it's a must.


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: I'm about to dunk and... [Re: TheProdigy]
    #3764128 - 02/10/05 10:03 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

"So you should mist them up until the point of pinning after the cakes have been birthed?"
Absolutely!

"Should you use a % peroxide solution for this stage?"
Absolutely not, just good clean water, proxide will retard primordia formation.


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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OfflineFungus_Farmer
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Re: I'm about to dunk and... [Re: hyphae]
    #3764309 - 02/10/05 11:40 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Whoa, that just confused me. First you said
Quote:

once they see the myc poking thru the casings surface evenly to stop misting during the primordia formation (a few days) or until your little redheads start expanding this will indicate that your pins are set and ready for very fine misting again.


Then Prodigy said
Quote:

So you should mist them up until the point of pinning after the cakes have been birthed?


and you responded with
Quote:

Absolutely!


What I gathered from what you just said was I'm supposed to not mist after birthing my cakes (I'm not casing, just plain cakes) but once pins are visible then I begin misting again. Is this correct? I know you're a capable and accomplished grower, but what you just said there was a litte tough to comprehend.


--------------------
Excerpt from one of my textbooks:
Therefore, between a then and its matching else, there cannot be an if statement without an else. Statements must be distinguished between those that are matched and those that are unmatched, where unmatched statements are else-less ifs and all other statements are matched.
I wonder if that would make more sense if I was tripping when I read it.


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: I'm about to dunk and... [Re: Fungus_Farmer]
    #3765646 - 02/11/05 08:36 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Either casings or cakes it will make a difference casing should be cased and incubated during the casing run and birthed prior the surface colonization during which time misting is good. Cakes should be birthed and initiated immediately and can be lightly misted after they we've been "rolled" until primordia formation begins then stop misting. Cakes are usually in a high RH environment (95%+) so wetting down that verm layer is usually enough.
Absolutely! You should mist them up until the point of pinning after the cakes have been birthed. Sometimes it's hard to think like a new grower and I may inadvertantly leave out info that I take for granted, sorry if I'm confusing you. :blush:


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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OfflineFungus_Farmer
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Re: I'm about to dunk and... [Re: hyphae]
    #3767495 - 02/11/05 06:28 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Okay, first you said to mist after birthing until primordia appear, then to stop. Then you said to mist them up until pins appear. That's two completely opposite things you just said.


--------------------
Excerpt from one of my textbooks:
Therefore, between a then and its matching else, there cannot be an if statement without an else. Statements must be distinguished between those that are matched and those that are unmatched, where unmatched statements are else-less ifs and all other statements are matched.
I wonder if that would make more sense if I was tripping when I read it.


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: I'm about to dunk and... [Re: Fungus_Farmer]
    #3767516 - 02/11/05 06:37 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

New_Shroomer81 said:
Okay, first you said to mist after birthing until primordia appear, then to stop.  Then you said to mist them up until pins appear.  That's two completely opposite things you just said.



I never said mist until pins appear, I said mist up until pin initiation as always. Primordia are pins BTW :wink: Cakes go through a stage where the myc "knots" this is the onset of primordia formation, not the knots but you will soon see tiny white dots which you do not want to damage with over misting. Hope this paints a slightly easier picture of what I'm saying. GL


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Registered: 05/08/04
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Re: I'm about to dunk and... [Re: hyphae]
    #3767657 - 02/11/05 07:18 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

"can be lightly misted after they we've been "rolled" until primordia formation begins then stop misting"

"You should mist them up until the point of pinning after the cakes have been birthed"

Those two things are the same things, the complete opposite of the complete opposite.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Offlinejc_illenium
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Re: I'm about to dunk and... [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3767917 - 02/11/05 08:17 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

in the aquarium set up i have goin on, the humidifer puts out a mist and dew will form on the cake. so far, this seems to have helped the mycelium growth. i started fruiting at about 80%colonazation, and over the course of two days, the cake is fully covered, with small tuffts protruding .i guess its helped to hydrate??? im not sure, so only excessive amounts stunt growth. as long as its not much worse than what mother nature produces.


--------------------
on my knees and burnin
my piss and moans the fuel that
set my head on fire
smell my soul its burnin


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Offlinejc_illenium
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Re: I'm about to dunk and... [Re: jc_illenium]
    #3767940 - 02/11/05 08:22 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

the tuffts that i metioned are what hyphae refers to as knots.


--------------------
on my knees and burnin
my piss and moans the fuel that
set my head on fire
smell my soul its burnin


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OfflineMushroomFriend
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Re: I'm about to dunk and... [Re: Fungus_Farmer]
    #3767943 - 02/11/05 08:22 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

when covered in water myc has harder time (fails even) to fight contams. in 12 hours it doesnt drown though.


--------------------


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OfflineFungus_Farmer
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Re: I'm about to dunk and... [Re: MushroomFriend]
    #3769894 - 02/12/05 04:20 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Hmm, don't know how I got that mixed up now that I look at it again. Mist until the myc knots up (onset of pinning); stop misting while pins develop (pinning); mist again once pins are developed (fruiting). Did I get it right that time?


--------------------
Excerpt from one of my textbooks:
Therefore, between a then and its matching else, there cannot be an if statement without an else. Statements must be distinguished between those that are matched and those that are unmatched, where unmatched statements are else-less ifs and all other statements are matched.
I wonder if that would make more sense if I was tripping when I read it.


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OfflineMushroomFriend
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Re: I'm about to dunk and... [Re: Fungus_Farmer]
    #3770138 - 02/12/05 06:22 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I dont mist after pins/primordia arrive. I did before but got me bacterial blotch on one cake.

What you can do is add water with a syringe, then you can aim between the mushrooms. But a large casing is a long work, its good if you have 250CC syringe then or something.. :P

ATM I dont add any water manually after pinning. Hence a 2 sq. feet tub (large casing) I didnt mist after casing at all. SInce all H2O2 stays inside I dont feel to mist extra. Pins started yesterday.
Many many....;)


--------------------


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OfflineFungus_Farmer
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Re: I'm about to dunk and... [Re: MushroomFriend]
    #3771128 - 02/12/05 04:06 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Since I am doing cakes though, and using a perlite layer, I'll probably have to mist once pins are set to help with the humidity right?


--------------------
Excerpt from one of my textbooks:
Therefore, between a then and its matching else, there cannot be an if statement without an else. Statements must be distinguished between those that are matched and those that are unmatched, where unmatched statements are else-less ifs and all other statements are matched.
I wonder if that would make more sense if I was tripping when I read it.


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