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OfflineSneezingPenis
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What is Evil?
    #3759877 - 02/10/05 02:22 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

What are some things you think are evil? I personally dont believe in evil, so I was wondering what people considered evil traits, or characteristics, or people, or whatever.....


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #3759886 - 02/10/05 02:25 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

what is good?
do you not believe in "good" as well?

a friend of mine gave his kidney to a relative
and saved his life. was this not good?

a man stabbed his wife 56 times out of jealousy.
was this not evil?


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Offlinefaslimy
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: Vvellum]
    #3759904 - 02/10/05 02:32 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I think

Childrens movies which show the world to be a happy friendly place where everythign works out is misleading and pure evil

Indoctrinating humans into a system of slavery right from early schooling is evil

Capatilism which encourages people to capatilise on others weaknesses is evil

The people who designed this entire society are evil

Bankers are evil

Marketers are evil


Edited by faslimy (02/10/05 02:33 AM)


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #3759909 - 02/10/05 02:33 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

here are some quotes on this topic:

"Nothing is evil which is according to nature."
-Marcus Aurelius

"The dread of evil is a much more forcible principle of human actions than the prospect of good."
-John Locke

"So far as we are human, what we do must be either evil or good: so far as we do evil or good, we are human: and it is better, in a paradoxical way, to do evil than to do nothing: at least we exist."
-T.S. Eliot

The world needs anger. The world often continues to allow evil because it isn't angry enough."
-Bede Jarrett

"The evil that men do lives after them; The good is oft interred with their bones."
- Shakespeare

"I am not a pessimist; to perceive evil where it exists is, in my opinion, a form of optimism "
- Roberto Rossellini

"To overcome evil with good is good, to resist evil with evil is evil."
- Mohammed

Evil draws men together.
Aristotle

Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction.
Blaise Pascal

Evil is obvious only in retrospect.
Gloria Steinem


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: Vvellum]
    #3759926 - 02/10/05 02:37 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

bi0 said:
what is good?
do you not believe in "good" as well?

a friend of mine gave his kidney to a relative
and saved his life. was this not good?

a man stabbed his wife 56 times out of jealousy.
was this not evil?




No, i dont believe in good either. Things just are, but this isnt about what I think, this is a question i am asking the forum. Where do you draw the line between evil and good? is there a gray area? what is it? What if the persons whose life was saved ended up being the next Hitler? would that make it an evil act or have evil overtones? What if the woman who got stabbed was an organ donor , and saved someones life by giving her kidney? would that be good or have good overtones? I see what you mean by evil when you look at one instance, at one point in time, by initial parties, but as a whole, what is evil?


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OfflineGomp
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #3759966 - 02/10/05 02:48 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

yes.. and so it is whit everything..


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #3759981 - 02/10/05 02:52 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

gradual spectrum
with a relative perspective.

human
on earth
tend to have quite similar perspective.
differences abound
but the similarities completely outweigh the differences.

perhaps in a parallel universe
where the physics are slightly different than ours
stabbing someone to death would be a good thing.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: Vvellum]
    #3760011 - 02/10/05 03:01 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Why do you believe that stabbing someone is evil? Was it a natural conclusion? was it conditioned into you?

I constantly see so many threads about people saying you have to doubt your philosophies. Seems to only pertain to everyone elses philosophies though, because they never seem to point that doubt at their own reality. Question your stance on evil and good. Question yourself as to what is righteous, and why you think this thing is righteous. Think about a time when you enjoyed or liked something, but later "found" it to be "evil", or vice versa. What made that decision? how did you determine or measure its evil or goodness?

I think we can all agree that evil is subjective to the self on a basic level. But, can anyone name something that is universally evil? or universally good? any act or thing?


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: What is Evil? & What is Sin? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #3760837 - 02/10/05 10:26 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Sin lies only in hurting other people unnecessarily. All other "sins" are invented nonsense. (Hurting yourself is not sinful--just stupid.)


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: What is Evil? & What is Sin? [Re: gnrm23]
    #3762847 - 02/10/05 06:26 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

How do you consider what is unnecessary?


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OfflineUnenlightenedOne
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #3762934 - 02/10/05 06:41 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Evil/Bad Things are negative such as beign harmful,dishonest,unjust,dishonorable,etc.

Good things are helpful, positive, beneficial, honorable, just, respectful,etc....

It is generally quite simple.

Everything is naturally simple.Humans only complicate it.


--------------------
Do not desire to reach a high level.Rather work without thought of reward to iron out flaws and impurities in one's self for the sake of one's self.When one has done this one needs not to desire anymore. http://www.lifeforceonlinestore.com/yc/


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: UnenlightenedOne]
    #3763009 - 02/10/05 06:50 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Ok, so how did you come to this conclusion? why do you feel that "beign harmful,dishonest,unjust,dishonorable,etc" is evil? I need more of an explanation beyond "well its just that way and because....". IMO people seem to think that the concept of evil is inherent, as if they of course know that everything they believe to be evil, is the same for everyone else.

I feel i need to clarify this term evil also. It isnt a disliking of something, it isnt just bad, this is something that is a purposeful counter action towards your survival or society. I like to joke and say that GWB is evil, but he isnt. He is doing what he THINKS is righteous. I dont think anyone is inherently evil, or even has evil intentions, either their impulses get the better of them, or they do something counteractive to society only while in the illusion of doing something righteous. GWB seriously thinks that he is helping this world, how can that be evil? even if he is killing millions of people after this is over, is it still evil?


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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #3763465 - 02/10/05 08:13 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Goodness is being, and it's opposite, evil, is the lack of being.

Evil is like a hole in a shirt. In itself the hole does not exist; it can only exist within the being of the shirt. Evil is like a hole; it can only exist within some good thing.

Another example is blindness. An eye deprived of sight is blind, and the blindness can be considered evil, but blindness cannot exist apart from something normally capable of sight.

Evil can always be seen as a lack of being where being should be. For an eye to be a good eye, it must be able to see. For a shirt to be a good shirt, it must cover the torso. The lack of fabric where the hole is in the shirt and the lack of sight in the eye are evil.

An evil will is also due to a lack of being. But this becomes more complex. The free will which chooses the lesser good instead of the greatest good deprives itself of being. This deprivation of being becomes like the hole in the shirt. The will once wounded in this manor finds itself less capable of choosing the greatest good and a cycle of negativity develops which reduces the wills freedom. This can be most easily observed in people addicted to drugs like crack and heroin. Choices made in the beginning of the cycle reduce the wills capability to freely choose later on. Eventually the person effected finds that the hole in his will has become so large that he is no longer free.

Bad choices cause wounds which reduce the will's ability to freely choose. The wounds lead to more bad choices, which cause more wounds, which cause more bad choices. As the downward spiral continues a person eventually looses all power to will himself back up out of the hole. Just as the drowning non-swimmer must stop kicking and flailing his arms before the life guard can rescue him, the mortally wounded will must stop willing in order to be saved. At this point its only hope is to become willing to accept salvation from a will outside itself.

Thank God for Jesus.


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: shroomydan]
    #3763653 - 02/10/05 08:44 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Evil is what you find when you live....  It is the word itself, an alternate personality in a world of dualities.... 

Take a piece of paper, and write the word "LIVE" on it.... 
Now, go hold it up in front of a mirror, and you will be staring right at it....

(It was also Mr. Knievel's first name....)  :grin:

:sun:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #3763807 - 02/10/05 09:04 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

psilocyberin said:
Why do you believe that stabbing someone is evil? Was it a natural conclusion? was it conditioned into you?

I constantly see so many threads about people saying you have to doubt your philosophies. Seems to only pertain to everyone elses philosophies though, because they never seem to point that doubt at their own reality. Question your stance on evil and good. Question yourself as to what is righteous, and why you think this thing is righteous. Think about a time when you enjoyed or liked something, but later "found" it to be "evil", or vice versa. What made that decision? how did you determine or measure its evil or goodness?

I think we can all agree that evil is subjective to the self on a basic level. But, can anyone name something that is universally evil? or universally good? any act or thing?




It was not conditioned into us. We naturally don't want to be stabbed with a knife. Empathy translates it from personal evil into general human idea of evil.
You could say in general that evil is an deliberate action against other peoples wellbeing.


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I command your very souls you unbelievers
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OfflineFrog
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3764249 - 02/10/05 11:25 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Evil is lying, cheating, stealing, murdering, hurting, etc.

Evil is doing anything to another that you would not want done to yourself. Evil is the antithesis of the Golden Rule.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineUnenlightenedOne
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #3764310 - 02/10/05 11:40 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Evil is that which is negative and harmful toward another human being.

Good is that which is positive and helpful toward another human being.

We all are born with a natural desire to help and be social and to further our group/tribe/society as a whole until at some point in life we becoem corrupted by someone or something that causes us to go in different directions.What child is born with a desire to hurt?It is learned behaviour and also can be cultivated.

Ones perception can be flawed but if I believe the sun is purple does it become purple?No.If I believe/perceive an apple to be square does it make it square?Of course not.What is good and what is bad is always the same regardless of personal belief.Now our perception of what is good and what is bad varies from individual to individual.

How many very spiritually advanced people do evil things regardless of whether or not they have a religion?None.These people are practically saints/holy beings on earth and yet they do nothing evil.Even things we see as generally acceptable as a majority such as killing animals they do not do.Why?Because they do nothing harmful to any being.When is the last time any truly spiritual person did anything evil?Are not these people the epitome of good?If killing and such is not evil why do they not kill?

Good and evil is always a touchy subject.It is also difficult for me to explain.

Evil has a certain set of qualities and Good has a certain set of qualities.Good things embody at least one good quality and evil things embody at least one evil quality.

Evil qualities are things which are counterproductive,negative and only benefits one's only self if even but evil can also benefit another if evil is done in their name but generally evil benefits someone mostly one's self for selfish reasons.

Good qualities are things which are productive,positive and benefits more than one's self on any level and generally benefits society in some way as a whole where as evil has bad effects on society.

Good and evil can have grey areas when a person's morality comes into play.Someone may feel that killing someone out of revenge will help someone else but in reality they are only doing it for themselves to fulfill their sense of injustice.They are only benefiting themselves.

Now killing animals to eat can benefit everyone who receives the food.I know people will say well what about killing people for food such as cannibalism.That is evil.Why?Because killing members of your species for any reason is counterproductive to the entire species survival in general.It harms everyone.Giving birth is good because it helps the entire species survive.If no one gave birth our species would die in less than 120 years most likely assuming the last child born lived to about 120 at most.What about death?Isnt that counterproductive?No.Death allows the weaker ones to die off whether weak from old age or weak from physical or mental weakness,etc.Killing kills off people healthy enough to live and contribute to society.this is bad.Everyone needs to eb able to contribute.


I know my explanation is likely quite flawed but its the best I can explain.


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Do not desire to reach a high level.Rather work without thought of reward to iron out flaws and impurities in one's self for the sake of one's self.When one has done this one needs not to desire anymore. http://www.lifeforceonlinestore.com/yc/


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InvisibleEvilEwok
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: UnenlightenedOne]
    #3764534 - 02/11/05 12:50 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

What is Evil? Ewoks and Jacko.
Case closed. :evil:


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OfflineUnenlightenedOne
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: EvilEwok]
    #3764587 - 02/11/05 01:03 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

What is Evil? Ewoks and Jacko.
Case closed.




LMAO


--------------------
Do not desire to reach a high level.Rather work without thought of reward to iron out flaws and impurities in one's self for the sake of one's self.When one has done this one needs not to desire anymore. http://www.lifeforceonlinestore.com/yc/


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: UnenlightenedOne]
    #3764703 - 02/11/05 01:40 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

yay! now we are getting somewhere.


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OfflineLizard_King
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #3764824 - 02/11/05 02:02 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Evil is just a word. It describes reality subjectivity, it however has no reality outside this. There are no evil actions, events, people, et al, there are only those things la belled as such.


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OfflineVertigo6911
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: Lizard_King]
    #3764940 - 02/11/05 02:41 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

i think evil is a choice.
u can either choose to do the right thing, make some kind of compromise or simply sacrifice everything in order to act only on desire. when a person decides to do things to make his concience stop getting in the way of his desires* i would call that an act of evil.

* take a look at this:
http://www.infowars.com/bg1.html
theres a club where corporate fatcats go to to participate in
a cermony (one of meny) called "the cremation of care"...

these peaple are 'cremating' their sense of morality in order to
do their dirty deeds that keep them rich...
(and whateverthehell else goes on in there)

this is what i would call an act of 'evil'...


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: shroomydan]
    #3764982 - 02/11/05 02:55 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Evil is like a hole in a shirt. In itself the hole does not exist; it can only exist within the being of the shirt. Evil is like a hole; it can only exist within some good thing.

Let's start a fund to get ShroomyDan a new shirt. Maybe one of those plaid, lumberjack, flannel ones.  :thumbup:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #3765009 - 02/11/05 03:02 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Bottom line on evil:

Evil is something someone else does, never what he observer does as he ALWAYS has an internally valid reason.

Everyone should really try to grasp this.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineVertigo6911
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #3765057 - 02/11/05 03:12 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

i know what u mean but im afraid it is not correct.
this is the rule yes, but there are exceptions.

the peaple illustrated in the link above
have no illusions of being richtious. else they would not need to cremate their moral concience...


--------------------
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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: Swami]
    #3765063 - 02/11/05 03:13 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Can one not acknowledge past evil-doing?


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: Silversoul]
    #3765086 - 02/11/05 03:17 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

the peaple illustrated in the link above
have no illusions of being richtious.


whether or not they think they're righteous, they do think they're acting in the best interest of what's most important to them, which is all any of us can do.


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Invisibleraytrace
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #3765095 - 02/11/05 03:18 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

what is evil?
live spelled backwards


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: Silversoul]
    #3765116 - 02/11/05 03:23 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Can one not acknowledge past evil-doing?

That is irrelevant. What was going through your mind AT THE TIME when you did an allegedly evil act?


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: UnenlightenedOne]
    #3765298 - 02/11/05 04:16 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

UnenlightenedOne said:
I know my explanation is likely quite flawed but its the best I can explain.




A difference of opinion is never a flaw, that said, I do not see indifference....  :smile:  Besides the people that truly do have Evil intentions, the fundemental morals seem pretty simple....  A lot of the bullshit fineprint seem to be riddled with "self serving" loopholes within the laws themselves, some served as an invitation for exploit....    It is evil that stands in the middle of opposition, and man cleverly (blindly) waste time writing more and more fine print for more and more people to look for ways to exploit those newly written fineprint loopholes....  It is the evil that causes struggle, and seperates us from unity as a species....  Eeeehhh...?

Simplicity....  DaMMiT, there is something to be said for it.....    :tongue:

It *would* be somewhat comforting to think that if we could all collectively, at one moment in time ( :smirk: ), we could all CHOOSE to FEAST upon the evil in the world all in one meal - as vile as it might well be - I would eat my fill....  I could also stand in confidence that based on any of my current or past intentions, I know that I would not be eaten myself....    I am thinking that Evil prolly~ doesn't taste as wonderful as a warm "home cooked" meal, and would prolly~ not settle well....  I would suffer, and "stay the coarse"....    (No pun....)

In the stories I was taught as a child, It would seem as that Evil first came to man as a deception with Evil intentions....  I think even belief and faith *MAY* transend from within the depths of our inherent genetic code.....  Perhaps...?  Naaaaa, I must be reflecting upon MY past.....   

I was just thinking....  (YAY...!!!  Like I need more of THAT....!)    :lol:   
SHUT THIS FUGGIN GUY UP ALREADY....!!!!!!!!    :eek:
Yeah, I know, I will prolly~ never shut up....    :shrug:  :lol:
Anyway....  ***AHHHEEEMMM***....

OK, I was just thinking....  So you got Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden standing by the tree....    Symbolically, they ate an apple, but the evil that they actually chose to eat upon seemed to serve a cancer within mankind itself....  If this basic "knowledge" of how Evil Actually did begin is true, there should be a way to rid ourselves from this eternal cancer for good....    Eeehhh?    I made a thread a while back about cancer....  (GO FIGURE...?  :shocked: )  Cancer is kind of evil....  Kind of....?  OK, CANCER IS EVIL....  (Honorable mention for "Jacko" and ":evil:Ewoks"...?)  Even symbolically, Cancer is but of yourself....  It is you with the Ultimate of negative Evil influences growing and running rampid, sometimes without even cause....  This may sound disguisting to you, but if I had cancer, I would very purposely get a piece of that very cancer and eat it....  Symbolically, I would feel just in doing so....  To feast upon the unwelcome evil growing inside me would serve to make me grow stronger in (spirit?) a symbolic way.... 

If it all worked like this, and it was that simple, It *seems* like eating evil for the intensions of using it's energy to not "cause evil", would bring us back to a Garden of Eden 2005, where we collectively banished evil from the garden from whence it came....  Ridding my body forever, and leaving a nice ripe shit of digested apple and lifeless cancer under that tree for the evil to choke in....  Call it a token of what I have tasted, and CHOOSE to live without.... 

Well, anyway....  Those were the words I chose tonight, right now....  Why....?    I dunno~.....  :shrug:  If there was no evil, it sure would make trust a lot easier....  All the worries of the world would be gone if we ALL were able to trust one another....    "In a perfect world"....  and yet I know these are just my thoughts or perspectives....  Individualism is a bitch....!    :grin:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3765314 - 02/11/05 04:19 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Damn, :eek: a lot happened to this thread while I was writing.....  :lol:  Oh well....  :tongue:

Time to catch up....  :tongue2:


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Re: What is Evil? [Re: Swami]
    #3765421 - 02/11/05 04:52 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Bottom line on evil:

Evil is something someone else does, never what he (the*?) observer does as he ALWAYS has an internally valid reason.

Everyone should really try to grasp this.




Is inherent lack of trust for a stranger's intensions a good enough reason to "internally validate reason" within an "observer"....?

Would evil be the "fingerpointing" to the irrelevent to cause a distraction...? It depends on if you seek truth, I guess....?


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Re: What is Evil? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3765429 - 02/11/05 05:02 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Evil exists knowhere but in the mind of the individual percieving it.


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Re: What is Evil? [Re: Sinbad]
    #3765431 - 02/11/05 05:05 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Hail Sinbad!


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Re: What is Evil? [Re: Sinbad]
    #3765522 - 02/11/05 06:46 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Sinbad said:
Evil exists knowhere but in the mind of the individual percieving it.




As you could say the same of trust, or even ehhh....  Well, pretty much everything....?
::::scratching head::::
Seems a nice way to confuse right and wrong with words....  Clever....!    :smirk:

You *may* seem to imply that other's intentions/motives have no boundries within one's individual perception....(?)
So, within the realm of "intention", there is no good or bad.....(?)
Perhaps no evil at all....(?)  (Isn't intensionless (evil) violence with forks cool...!!!! ====>    :fork::shrug:

(I am asking.....)  :sun:  (:lol: Asking someone with the names of "Sin" & "Bad" together in one....)
(Well, at least from my perspective....)  :smirk:


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Re: What is Evil? [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #3765881 - 02/11/05 10:41 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

in re: that club where the "fatcats" go...

dr shulgin is a bohemian member, and discusses some of his times at the grove in P or T (IHKAL)...


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old enough to know better
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& then there's alan watts: the two hands of god [Re: gnrm23]
    #3765887 - 02/11/05 10:43 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)



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Re: What is Evil? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3765890 - 02/11/05 10:43 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Let me clarify, The true source of evil, the deep root of negativity lies within our own minds, but for this to manifest it usually requires interaction with a cooperative, environmental cause, such as other people or the material world.

You can see from your own life experiences how the environment can effect you. When your amoung peacful, generous, happy people, your inclined to feel happy and peacful yourself. When your amoung angry, agressive people, you tend to become like them. The human mind is like a mirror. A mirror does not discriminate but simply reflects whatever is before it, no matter whether its horrible or wonderful.

Similarly your mind takes on the aspect of your surroundings and if your not aware of what i going on, your mind can fill with garbage.. Therefore it is very important to be concious of your surrondings and how they effect your mind.

Usually we see the sense world - attractive shapes, beautiful colours, nice tastes and so forth- but we dont actually percieve the real, true nature of the shapes, colours and tastes. Thats how most of the time our perception is mistaken. So our mistaken perception processes the information to our mind, which reacts under the influence of the ego. The result of all this is that most of the time we are hallucinating, not seeing the true nature of things, not understanding the reality of even the sense world.

Anyways ive gone a little off track, so ill conclude by saying that the root of all evil actions and intentions is in the mind. You cant recognise what you dont already posses to some degree within your own concioussness .

So really what i stated in my last post is'nt entirley true, but considering the illusory nature of reality, at the same time it is!


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Re: What is Evil? [Re: Sinbad]
    #3765955 - 02/11/05 11:10 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Aaahhh, much better....  :smile:    I agree with most everything you said, except one concept....  Please allow me to point out a "flaw" - strictly from "my perspective"....


Quote:

Sinbad said:
You can see from your own life experiences how the environment can effect you. When your amoung peacful, generous, happy people, your inclined to feel happy and peacful yourself. When your amoung angry, agressive people, you tend to become like them. The human mind is like a mirror. A mirror does not discriminate but simply reflects whatever is before it, no matter whether its horrible or wonderful.




This is where our ideas stray just a lil (from perspective of chosen focal point....?)  When you are "among angry people", this is when you hold true unto yourself, and become that image of intensions that reflects off the mirror to effect the others around you in a positive light....  (If that is the way you choose to be....)    It is EASY to go with the flow, no doubt about it....  But, if you are truly a ROCK unto yourself, you CAN indeed change that flow.... 

And then, you can Rock And Roll baby....!    :tongue2:


:sun:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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Re: What is Evil? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3765981 - 02/11/05 11:24 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Of course but this isn't how most people are, and that's a fact. If you can be in a positive state all the time whilst amongst negative influences, then i salute you, but it requires constant practice to reach a point where your not affected by external influences at all.

This only comes about by either training exclusively in positive actions or tackling the root of all negativity which lies within ones own mind. When you understand you true nature there are no longer such distinctions between positive and negative.


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Re: What is Evil? [Re: Sinbad]
    #3766131 - 02/11/05 12:22 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

It is all theoretical, I still bleed....  I am a week mortal human, and still gowing in every direction.... 

I am sure that there would be real life situations where the power of the "flow" would simply overpower the weight of the rock....  At that point you can only hope to have built a few rocks around you to help divert that "flow"....    :grin:

Wanna~ go swimming....?    :tongue2:

:heart:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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Re: What is Evil? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3766147 - 02/11/05 12:28 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Whay have a negative attitude towards negativity? Why be averse to aversion? Why try to divert what has already become manifest, negativity isnt the problem, but how we react towards it can be.

Relax in the face of it and it loses its solididy, then we are no longer caught up in it. The same technique must be applied with the positive aspect also.


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Re: What is Evil? [Re: Swami]
    #3766227 - 02/11/05 12:53 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Evil is like a hole in a shirt. In itself the hole does not exist; it can only exist within the being of the shirt. Evil is like a hole; it can only exist within some good thing.

Let's start a fund to get ShroomyDan a new shirt. Maybe one of those plaid, lumberjack, flannel ones.  :thumbup:





That would be awesome :smile: :thumbup:


Quote:

Evil is something someone else does, never what he observer does as he ALWAYS has an internally valid reason.

Everyone should really try to grasp this.





From a subjective point of view this is true. From an objective point of view we can say that no one ever chooses evil for the sake of evil. People always choose some good. The person who mugs an old lady and steels her social security check is not intending the evil which he is inflicting upon her; he is merely seeking the good which will come from having the money which he steels. Evil as non-being is incapable of being an object of the will. Hence all choices are choices for good things. What makes an act 'evil' is when the choice made is for a lesser good instead of the greatest possible good. For instance if a person chooses to to sit around smoking crack all day instead of going to work, he is choosing the good of being high, which is a lesser good than the good of supporting his family.

I think we agree again Swami, make that shirt an 1XL.  :sun:


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: shroomydan]
    #3766264 - 02/11/05 01:00 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I think we agree again Swami, make that shirt an 1XL.

I think you should fast down to a large and send the extra food to the tsunami victims.  :smile:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Re: What is Evil? [Re: Sinbad]
    #3766267 - 02/11/05 01:00 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Sinbad said:
Whay have a negative attitude towards negativity? Why be averse to aversion? Why try to divert what has already become manifest, negativity isnt the problem, but how we react towards it can be.




Show where I have displayed "negativity towards negativity"....?    I was trying to display a resistance to it by holding strong and "not going with the flow" of negativity....    Like as you had stated here:  (as I understood it....)

Quote:

Sinbad said:
Similarly your mind takes on the aspect of your surroundings and if your not aware of what i going on, your mind can fill with garbage.. Therefore it is very important to be concious of your surrondings and how they effect your mind.




I think we are on the same page....?  Eeeehhh....?   
Or do you just want to keep debating the same thing (that we are not really debating?)....? 
Are we still debating....?    Or just clarifying....(?)  :confused:  :smirk:


The water is very refreshing.... 

Swim....?    :grin:


:tongue2:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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Invisiblethankugoodnight
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: Swami]
    #3766288 - 02/11/05 01:07 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

.


Edited by molil (02/23/05 03:04 AM)


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Re: What is Evil? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3766326 - 02/11/05 01:17 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Resistance is a negative attribute because whatever you resist will persist. Being aware means that we are not being caught up in negativity but at the same time we are not resisting against it.

When we are being aware there is no need to manipulate or modify anything to our advantage, nor redirect the flow. If we are being aware we can relax in the face of negativity, in this way it comes and it goes with ease and doesn't pile up like garbage in the mind.

Resistance is a manifestation of negativity. Whenever their is internal or external negativity you will notice resistance in your mind.

I'm not debating just clarifying.  :smile:


--------------------


Edited by Sinbad (02/11/05 02:12 PM)


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Re: What is Evil? [Re: Sinbad]
    #3766393 - 02/11/05 01:37 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I will then take of this to be aware, as opposed to resisting....  And I will grow....  Your words make more sense as I sit and digest....  I have been told this before, but in slightly different words, or a different "light" or "style"....  :sun:

Thank you for clarifying.....    :peace:





NOW.....






Do ya~ wanna go swimming....?  :grin:    :lol:

:tongue2:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3766457 - 02/11/05 02:00 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I love to swim in rivers of poisonous snakes.


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Re: What is Evil? [Re: Sinbad]
    #3767665 - 02/11/05 07:21 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Wow, finally a thread of mine has taken off! And this is some really waist deep intellectual puddle of profundity we have waded into here.

Some of these were poetic essays on the quality of evil. (side not) some of these posts would be really great music lyrics....think about it. (anyway) I only saw a few people though who posted and thought outside of their own perception, and that was the meat of the question. It wasnt just about naming some things that were evil, even though i asked that, but more about realizing your judgement is based from a distorted and flawed perception (which is everyone), and trying to remove yourself from the topic at hand and then thinking about defining evilness. Anything debated long enough, will eventually end up in the realm of existentialism or solipsism, so why not start at that point and go from there. As you can see, evil is kind of hard to define once you take yourself out of the equation and start to look at it in a universal sense.


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Re: What is Evil? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #3767752 - 02/11/05 07:46 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Trying to define evil outside sentient life is like trying to define how much a fallen rock hurts when it falls on sand.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3767790 - 02/11/05 07:55 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

now you see where I am at....


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Re: What is Evil? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #3767896 - 02/11/05 08:13 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

yes, but I think you look at it from a different angle.

You know if that rock fell to someones arm or paw, it would hurt, of course it is in their head, but it is still pain, and suddenly the rock got an etiquete saying it hurts. So the fact that it hurts inside someones head, or that it isn't a "rock" at all outside someones head (just a random bunch of atoms, we are the ones that see the similarity between two rocks), does not make it hurt any less.

It is evil because we agree it's evil, because we all don't want it to happen to us or our loved ones, and some of us with a big heart don't want it happened to anyone.

It is our head, our mind, our nerves, our pain, all of it inside us, and we have a right to call it evil or apple because it concenrs only things inside our head.

It is just a word we use for the type of behaviour that is anti-love and harmony.

Here is an example of what I mean:

There is a baby which loves carrot juice, now loving carrot juice is not good or bad, it is just something we can respect or not, like any other need. So It is good to give the baby carrot juice, and it is bad to steal it away from the baby. Why? Carrot juice has nothing to do with it, it could be anything really. Because it is against babies wishes AND it serves no greater purpuse that the baby might not understand.

The idea of good and bad exists in the mind of the baby and in the minds of people around him. So carrot juice has no moral law attached to it, it is as simple as chosing to live in love and make other people's lives better or living in selfishness.

Now you translate the baby into any human being, and translate carrot juice into joy, habits, lack of pain, you name it.

There is no "right" choice. There is choice that results in one thing or one that results in another thing. Love results in healthier psyche of you and your friends, it results in hramony, better atmoshpere for development etc.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Edited by OldWoodSpecter (02/11/05 08:13 PM)


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Re: What is Evil? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3769441 - 02/12/05 01:49 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

So, then by that standard.... hedonism is good. I dont hear too many people proclaiming the goodness of unabashed, wild hedonism, but hey, it could be on the rise.... I'll go tell Caligula, he will be happy.


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Re: What is Evil? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #3770279 - 02/12/05 09:37 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Wild hedonism is being a slave to your senses. Nobody forces you to avoid it, it's just that it might be an obstacle in other things in your life.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Re: What is Evil? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3770366 - 02/12/05 10:24 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

And why is pain bad? or evil? There are a whole myriad of sensations we can get as a human, every one of them equally beautiful in their own sense. Just like every emotion is equally valid. We are all guilty of dragging ourselves down only to be lifted by our vices. Sadness, anger, jealousy are all just equally important emotions as happiness, affinity and joy. Like that hole in the shirt, without the sadness in your life, how would you guage your own happiness? Yes, A rock can fall on my hand, and i feel pain, but what is evil in the vastness of every human perception? Take that carrot paste away from the baby, and it will be miserable and start to cry, how is that evil? the baby needs to get used to both sides of existence. Just because it is a negative term doesnt negate its usefulness or beauty. Would an art peice that filled you with joy be any better than an art peice that made you depressed?
Take comfort that you are a human, and can experience and express, and affect almost everything! I have a mild case of athletes foot, i could cure it with tinactin or whatever, but I enjoy itching my foot too much. Kind of like tantric pain/elation. Something is only evil if you insist that it is so in your reality. Once you stop believing in evil, you have no use for it and thusly it ceases to exist for you or affect you in any way.


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: Swami]
    #3770405 - 02/12/05 10:49 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Can one not acknowledge past evil-doing?

That is irrelevant. What was going through your mind AT THE TIME when you did an allegedly evil act?




good and evil are perceptions. what's good for one is evil for another.

In reality someone could only be "good" if evil could never touch them. a "good" person, if one were to exist, would never die, never be in any position to recieve pain or injury, and would be "good" simply by living life. Therefore only the creator is "good".

an "evil" person, if one were to exist, would by definition not exist at all because hands and feet are "good", eyesight is "good", being able to think is "good" etc. etc.


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all



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Re: What is Evil? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #3770460 - 02/12/05 11:31 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

all life avoids discomfort and seeks pleasure, that is why all life named discomofort bad and pleasure good.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Invisiblespidercid
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3770498 - 02/12/05 11:53 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I guess then evil falls under the category of human delusion


--------------------
Many of the faults you see in others, dear reader, are your own nature reflected in them. As the Prophet said, 'The faithful are mirrors to one another'.

http://img192.exs.cx/img192/1601/getimg3is.gif


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Re: What is Evil? [Re: spidercid]
    #3770500 - 02/12/05 11:54 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Yep!  :thumbup:


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3770811 - 02/12/05 02:24 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I am a week mortal human, and still g(r)owing in every direction....

Lay off the all-you-can-eat buffets. :lol:


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSinbad
Living TheMoment
Male

Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
Re: What is Evil? [Re: Swami]
    #3770817 - 02/12/05 02:26 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

LOL!!!  :laugh: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :thanx:

Thats so fuckin funny i almost fell off my seat! Nice one Swami  :grin:


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
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Registered: 02/01/05
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: spidercid]
    #3770878 - 02/12/05 02:45 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

And what doesn't fall under human delusion?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: What is Evil? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3770903 - 02/12/05 02:52 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Chipmunk delusion.  :smirk:


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #3770923 - 02/12/05 02:58 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

psilocyberin said:
What are some things you think are evil?





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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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OfflineLuminous Numinous
Stranger

Registered: 01/20/10
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: Lizard_King]
    #11876257 - 01/22/10 12:57 AM (12 years, 8 days ago)

What is evil? Below is the best answer to your question that you're going to find anywhere, GUARANTEED. Seriously...it's a GREAT question...one of the big ones. You'll find a great answer here: http://www.luminousnuminous.com/blog/?p=275


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
CS actual
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
Re: What is Evil? [Re: Luminous Numinous]
    #11876396 - 01/22/10 01:26 AM (12 years, 8 days ago)

Was it evil of cain to kill abel?


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs


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OfflinePandorok
Hu Man
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #11876427 - 01/22/10 01:36 AM (12 years, 8 days ago)

Evil cannot be defined. It is imaginative.


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PANDOROK


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: Pandorok]
    #11877104 - 01/22/10 08:05 AM (12 years, 8 days ago)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil


Everything is then, imaginative.:tongue:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflinePandorok
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: Icelander]
    #11878020 - 01/22/10 12:43 PM (12 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:Everything is then, imaginative.:tongue:





This is true.


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PANDOROK


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Offlinesoldatheero
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Re: What is Evil? [Re: Pandorok]
    #11879380 - 01/22/10 04:23 PM (12 years, 7 days ago)

Here is an interesting understanding.
Quote:






"In the chapter on Good and Evil, Meher Baba takes a unique position. What we call evil, according to Meher Baba, is most often a misapplied relic of a past good. For instance, an act beneficial to a lower species in evolution becomes detrimental to the individual and society in a human cultural context. Similarly, the ego, which plays a vital role in the process of evolving self-awareness, becomes a spiritual hindrance once full awareness (in human form) is achieved. Still, Baba asserts that good actions (judged as good in their context) are preferable to so-called bad actions, in that they are far less binding to the soul. According to Baba, both good and bad actions are binding in the sense that they leave impressions (sanskaras) that must be worked out or balanced by ongoing experience in reincarnation. But even in this context, good actions are preferable and less binding. He gives the analogy that bad actions are like ropes that bind both feet and hands, but good actions bind only the feet, and thus can more easily be disentangled. This principle of evil being the relic of a past good, becoming bad in the wrong context, is repeated in his writing on the subject of war. A war may be deemed necessary, and thus not necessarily bad, when its use serves the greater good of the people (such as in repelling a significant unprovoked threat) as seen from the highest possible vantage point. However, Meher Baba says that war is generally the least creative means of resolving human conflict and is most often misguided. Also he points out that war is only a symptom, while the root cause of the problem is individual and collective egoism.

Meher Baba suggests that in the final analysis there is no such thing as bad in the sense that we conceive it, but rather there are more truly only degrees of good. Rather than categorizing actions in terms of good and bad (which are sometimes little more than societal conventions) Meher Baba divides actions into binding and unbinding, i.e., those actions that emancipate the soul from illusion (Maya) as opposed to those that further retard or thwart the soul's release from all bindings (sanskaras). Baba also makes a distinction between natural and non-natural impressions derived from natural and non-natural actions. Natural actions, such as marriage, are far less spiritually entangling and easier to process and balance than, for instance, promiscuity. Thus it is far more advantageous, from a spiritual point of view, to choose good and natural actions over less good and less natural ones."


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..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.


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