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Offlineshr00mb0y
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casing question
    #3752798 - 02/08/05 10:29 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

thanks guys first off i love the site.. it has inspired me to want to become a master mycologist.. and this is my first grow btw.

i have 10 pint jars colonizing about 2 weeks in with strong rhizomorphic mycelium growth. my question is how big of a casing should i use to case these in? i am using 60/40 coir/verm casing top and bottom layer about 1" thick each. i am wanting to have about 1 1/2 - 2" thick of substrate layer. i am thinking somewhere along the lines of 10"x14"x4" but i wanted you guys' opinion. thanks alot.


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Re: casing question [Re: shr00mb0y]
    #3752944 - 02/08/05 10:55 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

You want your substrate to be about 3-4" deep and the casing layer to be 1/4" over that. Thick casing layers are BAD.

This casing layer was 1/4":



--------------------
================================================



"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns

I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. :tongue2:

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Anonymous

Re: casing question [Re: TM]
    #3752952 - 02/08/05 10:57 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

spawn to bulk and all the shrooms you want will be thier plus to many to give away


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Re: casing question [Re: fee]
    #3752964 - 02/08/05 10:59 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Bad advice to give to a first timer.


--------------------
================================================



"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns

I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. :tongue2:

TM™ :cool:


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Offlineshr00mb0y
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Re: casing question [Re: TM]
    #3755142 - 02/09/05 09:54 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

yeh, i did consider doing a bulk straw grow with them but i wanted to do that next time.. i am already casing on my first attempt so i figured thats enough risk.. but back to my question, anyone got any idea?


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Offlineshr00mb0y
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Re: casing question [Re: shr00mb0y]
    #3755144 - 02/09/05 09:57 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

also, tripmeister.. how thick of a casing layer should i apply below my substrate?


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Re: casing question [Re: shr00mb0y]
    #3755176 - 02/09/05 10:16 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Underneath, you can go as deep as you want to. I usually do about a 1/2-3/4".


--------------------
================================================



"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns

I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. :tongue2:

TM™ :cool:


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Invisibletripndicular
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Re: casing question [Re: shr00mb0y]
    #3755186 - 02/09/05 10:22 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Casing layer on top of the sub should be anywhere from 1\4 inch deep to
1\2inch, as far as your bottom layer of casing , as deep as you want it .


--------------------
Any information I give is not intended to aide you in the production of potentialy illegal substances !None of my exp comes from growing illegal varities , so take it as you will .
So with that said here is our mission statement .

Then the priest fell into a trance or swoon,& said unto the Queen of heaven ; Write unto us the ordeals; write unto us the rituals; write unto us the law !


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Invisibletripndicular
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Re: casing question [Re: TM]
    #3755193 - 02/09/05 10:27 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Why is spawning to bulk bad idea for a new grower ?
It is so odd, that is where I began and to this day remain, just like doing agar cultures, g2g,tissue transfers etc... :confused:
IMHO it is an urban myth that one should start with cakes , then move up to casing cakes , then on to grains up to bulk subs  :rolleyes:
Just wondering.
I agree is bad to tell them , and yet give no info to guide them with :wink:


--------------------
Any information I give is not intended to aide you in the production of potentialy illegal substances !None of my exp comes from growing illegal varities , so take it as you will .
So with that said here is our mission statement .

Then the priest fell into a trance or swoon,& said unto the Queen of heaven ; Write unto us the ordeals; write unto us the rituals; write unto us the law !


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: casing question [Re: tripndicular]
    #3755461 - 02/09/05 12:16 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

IME, if you put those jars in 3-4" thick (for the substrate level), you'll be wasting substrate. You'll get more mushrooms off a pan thats half the thickness (1 1/2-2 inches) and twice the surface area. I also like casing layers to be 1/2"-3/4" Casing layers rock if you do them right.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Edited by scatmanrav (02/09/05 12:27 PM)


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Invisibletripndicular
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Re: casing question [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3755546 - 02/09/05 12:39 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

scatmanrav said:
IME, if you put those jars in 3-4" thick (for the substrate level), you'll be wasting substrate. You'll get more mushrooms off a pan thats half the thickness (1 1/2-2 inches) and twice the surface area. I also like casing layers to be 1/2"-3/4" Casing layers rock if you do them right. Of course if you dont believe mycelium secretes things then I could see how you could make up some casing mix wrong and want to use a thinner one.




IMHO is not a waste to go deep if you can , as far as substrates go. Especially if you like trying to get 4 nice healthy flushes. Big whoop one maybe 2 nice flushes if go shallow.The more food the more mushies, and the bigger and meatier they will be. :cool: :smile: :thumbup:

What does myc screations have to do with depth of a casing?
Do you think casing helps absorb it or something?

Thicker casing layer sometimes is why you probably see alot of contam problems, the longer it takes for myc to come thru the better chances for contam to get a foot hold .
Depth of sub determines depth of casing for this grower.I also judge depth by type of colonizer I have . Slower ones deffinetly get shallower casing, fast ones get it deep.
I assumed this poster was just casing a few cakes, so is why mentioned going on shallow side.

HMMMMMM odd ..."you" say I am doing my casing wrong and that is why I choose shallower case. hmmmmmmmmmmmmm wonder why I keep getting more mushies than I know what to do with?
Can only eat so damn much salad :smirk:


--------------------
Any information I give is not intended to aide you in the production of potentialy illegal substances !None of my exp comes from growing illegal varities , so take it as you will .
So with that said here is our mission statement .

Then the priest fell into a trance or swoon,& said unto the Queen of heaven ; Write unto us the ordeals; write unto us the rituals; write unto us the law !


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: casing question [Re: tripndicular]
    #3755648 - 02/09/05 01:02 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

>IMHO is not a waste to go deep if you can , as far as substrates go. Especially if you like trying to get 4 nice healthy flushes. Big whoop one maybe 2 nice flushes if go shallow.The more food the more mushies, and the bigger and meatier they will be. :cool: :smile: :thumbup:

I can easily get 3-4 nice healthy flushes off a 1.5-2 inch casing which is all they last before being replaced but I can get 8-9 flushes off the casing if I want..not so decent after the fourth..a quarter here and there but still

>What does myc screations have to do with depth of a casing?
Do you think casing helps absorb it or something?

I edited that part out because I misread your other post, you went back and clarified what you were meaning and I just read that. HOWEVER what it has to do with is you saying coir/verm doesnt benefit from calc carbonate. If you dont use it then you are not (IMO) making the casing layer to be used to its full extent. When I ran out of calc carb I also found it usfull to use a thinner casing layer because after 1st and second flushes, it would putter out if I used a thicker casing layer and only pin on the sides and bottom.

>Thicker casing layer sometimes is why you probably see alot of contam problems, the longer it takes for myc to come thru the better chances for contam to get a foot hold .

Who sees alot of contam problems? I've lost maybe 1% of my casings to contams...only one before the second flush was over too. My 3/4" casing layer is poking up in 2-3 days if I incubate it right after casing (which I dont anymore, I fruit it directly and it takes 3-5 days to poke up in my fruiting chamber)

>Depth of sub determines depth of casing for this grower.I also judge depth by type of colonizer I have . Slower ones deffinetly get shallower casing, fast ones get it deep.

True, depth of substrate determines depth of casing. You said FOUR inches gets a 1/4"  casing layer? Then what about 1 inch substrate layers such as Magash. He has good results putting more then 1/4" on those and the substrate is a quarter of the thickness you recommend to this person.

>I assumed this poster was just casing a few cakes, so is why mentioned going on shallow side.

But you mentioned going FOUR inches for a few cakes? So you mentioned going on the deep assed side for the substrate and shallow side for the casing layer? I guess I misunderstood, I thought the casing layer should get LARGER as the substrate layer does, not casing layer gets thinner as the substrate layer gets thicker

>HMMMMMM odd ..."you" say I am doing my casing wrong and that is why I choose shallower case. hmmmmmmmmmmmmm wonder why I keep getting more mushies than I know what to do with?

Wrong was a harsh word, not doing it optimal is a better word. You could use less substrate and get more flushes out of them if you added calc carbonate to your coir/verm to counteract mushroom/mycelium secretions.

Just my unexperienced opinion though.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Edited by scatmanrav (02/09/05 01:18 PM)


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Invisibletripndicular
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Re: casing question [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3755700 - 02/09/05 01:17 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Scat go back and read "my" posts .
Nowhere did I say a casing gets no benefit from the use of buffering agents. I do not do this myself(too lazy :wink:) , but never have I said that it was non beneficial.

8-9 flushes huh? YOU ARE A MASTER THE BEST I HAVE EVER MET!

I also did not say 4 inch sub only gets 1\4 inch...dude read again plz before you open mouth and insert foot!I never said that in any way shape or form , nor did I stutter.

4 inch sub with fast colonizer would get 1\2-3\4in. case easy with many patchings before birthing.
If I did say things I must edit it........

Nor did I tell poster to go 4 inches deep , just made comment to you thinking deep sub is a waste of time. TO EACH HIS OWN!

Catch ya later scat and remember PATIENCE is key  :wink:


--------------------
Any information I give is not intended to aide you in the production of potentialy illegal substances !None of my exp comes from growing illegal varities , so take it as you will .
So with that said here is our mission statement .

Then the priest fell into a trance or swoon,& said unto the Queen of heaven ; Write unto us the ordeals; write unto us the rituals; write unto us the law !


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InvisibleRoadkill
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Re: casing question [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3755757 - 02/09/05 01:32 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

scatmanrav said:
I can easily get 3-4 nice healthy flushes off a 1.5-2 inch casing which is all they last before being replaced but I can get 8-9 flushes off the casing if I want..not so decent after the fourth.




I never waste my time with later flushes...I throw a casing out, after the 3rd flush.
I personally feel that its a waste of my time and a waste of space...when I can have a new casing producing more in the space of an older casing.

Just my opinion mind you.

Plus the factor that I get large fruits and large yeilds from the first few flushes that use up the nutrients needed to produce more flushes.

----

Thicker substrates have always produced larger fruits for me.
I like 4" or more...for a substrate.

I like to use 3/4" to 1" on a casing.

----

It always comes down to what works best for you.


--------------------
Laterz, Road

Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!


Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.



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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: casing question [Re: Roadkill]
    #3755867 - 02/09/05 02:05 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

This post:
"IME, if you put those jars in 3-4" thick (for the substrate level), you'll be wasting substrate. You'll get more mushrooms off a pan thats half the thickness (1 1/2-2 inches) and twice the surface area. I also like casing layers to be 1/2"-3/4" Casing layers rock if you do them right. Of course if you dont believe mycelium secretes things then I could see how you could make up some casing mix wrong and want to use a thinner one."

Was to TRIPMEISTER. I got your two names mixed up. He was the one that I was refering to both the 4" thick substrate and 1/4" casing layer and all the mycelium/mushroom secretion stuff. Then you replied to me and I thought it was him and took it from there. Sorry, didnt mean to misread your post...I'll clear up my post a bit better:

-----------------------------------------------
>IMHO is not a waste to go deep if you can , as far as substrates go. Especially if you like trying to get 4 nice healthy flushes. Big whoop one maybe 2 nice flushes if go shallow.The more food the more mushies, and the bigger and meatier they will be.

I can easily get 3-4 nice healthy flushes off a 1.5-2 inch casing which is all they last before being replaced but I can get 8-9 flushes off the casing if I want..not so decent after the fourth..a quarter here and there but still

>What does myc screations have to do with depth of a casing?
Do you think casing helps absorb it or something?

Yes if you put in oyster shell powder, the casing does "absorb" it in a way..it counteracts it anyway. A thicker casing layer then 1/4" (buffered) to 4" of substrate will perform MUCH better in 2nd, 3rd and 4th flushes. It will retain water better and help to counter the acidity of the seretions

>Thicker casing layer sometimes is why you probably see alot of contam problems, the longer it takes for myc to come thru the better chances for contam to get a foot hold .

Who sees alot of contam problems? I've lost maybe 1% of my casings to contams...only one before the second flush was over too. My 3/4" casing layer is poking up in 2-3 days if I incubate it right after casing (which I dont anymore, I fruit it directly and it takes 3-5 days to poke up in my fruiting chamber)

>Depth of sub determines depth of casing for this grower.I also judge depth by type of colonizer I have . Slower ones deffinetly get shallower casing, fast ones get it deep.

True, depth of substrate determines depth of casing. You said FOUR inches gets a 1/4" casing layer? Then what about 1 inch substrate layers such as Magash. He has good results putting more then 1/4" on those and the substrate is a quarter of the thickness you recommend to this person. this was to tripmeister..thought he was defending his 4 inch substrate and 1/4" casing layer

>I assumed this poster was just casing a few cakes, so is why mentioned going on shallow side.

Good point, you did. I wasnt saying you shouldnt have recommended shallow, you at least say up to 1/2", I was saying 1/4" is to shallow for a 4 inch thick substrate layer

>HMMMMMM odd ..."you" say I am doing my casing wrong and that is why I choose shallower case. hmmmmmmmmmmmmm wonder why I keep getting more mushies than I know what to do with?

I meant Tripmeister isnt doing his casings OPTIMALLY. You however I dont know about, trip had just been discussing how calc carbonate doesnt do any good to coir though. Being lazy is different, as long as you get plenty of mushrooms for yourself. I was just offering advice to get the most out of the substrate possible which contradicts Tripmeisters advice a LOT.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry, tripwhoever (I forget already, damn trippy names), it wasn't meant for you and I just don't use the reply function very well.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Registered: 05/08/04
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Re: casing question [Re: Roadkill]
    #3755901 - 02/09/05 02:13 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

>I never waste my time with later flushes...I throw a casing out, after the 3rd flush.
I personally feel that its a waste of my time and a waste of space...when I can have a new casing producing more in the space of an older casing.

I feel the same but most growers dont grow with continual harvests and want to get the most out of the substrate as possible, which is indicated by the posters first post. I do feel still that 2nd, and epecially 3rd and 4th flushes are better with calc carbonate...3 or 4 are still nice without it. Beyond that I dont go either.

>Thicker substrates have always produced larger fruits for me.
I like 4" or more...for a substrate.

For PF Cakes? I've found for even grain its a waste. Bulk is different, easier to make...

>I like to use 3/4" to 1" on a casing.

Me too, I think a thick casing is needed for later flushes, retaining water is difficult if the whole casing layer is colonized solid after a flush or two.

>It always comes down to what works best for you.

Right. But telling someone to case PF cakes 4" thick and then adding a 1/4" casing layer and then saying spawning to bulk is "bad advice" derseves a comment, which is what I did..I just replied to the wrong trip about it.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibletripndicular
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Registered: 08/25/02
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Re: casing question [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3756304 - 02/09/05 04:05 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

You and that damn quick reply button , see what trouble it can get you into :wink:

Them is fighting words buddy :poke: :dumblol: Mixing up the one the only Tripndicular  :cool: :smoking: with the mieser... :blush: OH I am sorry the miester :wink:

Catch ya on the flip side .
Trip n D


--------------------
Any information I give is not intended to aide you in the production of potentialy illegal substances !None of my exp comes from growing illegal varities , so take it as you will .
So with that said here is our mission statement .

Then the priest fell into a trance or swoon,& said unto the Queen of heaven ; Write unto us the ordeals; write unto us the rituals; write unto us the law !


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OfflineMushroomFriend
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Re: casing question [Re: tripndicular]
    #3756327 - 02/09/05 04:09 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

lol @ these meisters! :grin:


--------------------


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Offlineshr00mb0y
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Re: casing question [Re: MushroomFriend]
    #3765869 - 02/11/05 10:33 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

ok well, i only have 5 pint jars now.. don't ask why.. but anyways, i was considering going to bulk to increase my yields like someone earlier in this thread mentioned. if so what method would you all suggest with pf cakes going to bulk? any help will be greatly appreciated. thanks.


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Invisibletripndicular
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Re: casing question [Re: shr00mb0y]
    #3765882 - 02/11/05 10:41 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Going to grain is best method for bulk spawnings.IMHO


--------------------
Any information I give is not intended to aide you in the production of potentialy illegal substances !None of my exp comes from growing illegal varities , so take it as you will .
So with that said here is our mission statement .

Then the priest fell into a trance or swoon,& said unto the Queen of heaven ; Write unto us the ordeals; write unto us the rituals; write unto us the law !


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
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