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ralphster44
collector


Registered: 01/03/01
Posts: 4,657
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens, Suphanburi Thailand - robust isolate [Re: tahoe]
#3764379 - 02/10/05 09:59 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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.
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Edited by ralphster44 (02/16/05 01:12 PM)
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dmc_
211

Registered: 12/23/03
Posts: 559
Loc: Portland, OR
Last seen: 18 years, 7 months
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens, Suphanburi Thailand - robust isolate [Re: ralphster44]
#3764416 - 02/10/05 10:14 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
ralphster44 said: sorry....just that I like the full potential. Forget what I say.... I do this for fun...
From what I've read, you a good man ralph. I understand where you're coming from, my mistake.
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Workman
1999 Spore War Veteran


Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 3,604
Loc: Oregon, USA
Last seen: 45 minutes, 41 seconds
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens, Suphanburi Thailand - robust isolate [Re: dmc_]
#3766626 - 02/11/05 12:59 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think your first impression was more correct.
-------------------- Research funded by the patrons of The Spore Works Exotic Spore Supply My Instagram Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification 
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EonTan
bird

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 468
Loc: very south
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens, Suphanburi Thailand - robust isolate [Re: Workman]
#3768248 - 02/11/05 07:15 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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It looks like all the Tailaind strains are very similar microscopically(sizes). The cambodians are on the larger end.
Ralph? Evaporation rate looks great, and the deep substrate works great too. Do you keep track of Yield per cup of substrate? I wonder how efficient the larger volumes are for you. I loose efficiency going with too much quantity of substrate, but I definetly don't keep things as clean as you. 
microns is an old term? I thought the micron was just the short way of saying micrometer.
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Zen Peddler


Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens, Suphanburi Thailand - robust isolate [Re: EonTan]
#3768682 - 02/11/05 08:47 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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Eontan - can you elaborate on your comments regarding what i assume is cystidia sizes? When your mentioning 'cambodians' are you refering to measurements from species descriptions or your own experience. Teonan and I spent quite a while trying to track down a real Panaeolus cambo. without success - all the mushrooms around the OMC that were labelled Pan cambo. were all four spored and with cyanescens-like cystidia.
Ralph is a top bloke/workman is a top bloke - i feel all warm and fuzzy now... Both these guys are quality.
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EonTan
bird

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 468
Loc: very south
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens, Suphanburi Thailand - robust isolate [Re: EonTan]
#3770688 - 02/12/05 11:29 AM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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I looked at two strains of Copelandia cyanescens from Tailaind. The Tai-Koh samui and the tai-Phuket Island. Both had pleurocystidia that were on the shorter side of the spectrum compared with the other Copelandia cyanescens strains in circulation.
The Cambodian strain and the "cambodginiensis" strains in circulation had Pleurocystidia in the mid to upper size range of the Strains in circulation. Larger then the Tai-Strains, but smaller then the mexican and Austrailian strains.
If you plot the sizes on a chart, you will see that two groups form. Ones on the large size and ones on the small size. ALL OF THEM fit in the Copelandia cyanescens range!!!
I still have not found any 2-spored variants in circulation, or any with small enough spores to be TEXTBOOK cambodginiensis or tropicalis, or any of the other TEXTBOOK Copelandias.
All fall within the Copelandia cyanescens group.
Have not viewed the Jamiacan or a feww of the Tai-strains that go by specific names carried by Little Guy, and the one Workman is showing. The one work is showing looks to be similar to the other Tais that I did view. As far as size range goes.
The macros for each varries alot from substrate to substrate, environment to environmnet within each strain and across all the strains. The micros seem consistent within strains and are different from strain to strain. THE GENERAL PLEUROCYSTIDIA MORPHOLOGY is consistent across the board, but variety does exist. If you go by the average appearance, they variance is subtle. If you go by the odd balls from each strain the variance can be great!!!
I'm sure you remember that from the Post that had all the pleorocystidia images from all the strains.(teonan post)
Sorry for the Jack of the thread Work. But it was relevant material.
Edited by EonTan (02/12/05 11:34 AM)
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Zen Peddler


Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens, Suphanburi Thailand - robust isolate [Re: EonTan]
#3771838 - 02/12/05 06:29 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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Im confused?? Are you Teonan?? As far as i was concerned and from what Teonan suggested, the pleurocystidia variations found in what could be described as varying phenotypes of cyanescens were considerable when considered against those that Guzman used to delineate Psilocybe species. In other words, using the same criteria as Guzman, we could easily split Panaeolus cyanescens into a number of different entities. As for 'textbook' cambods. or Trops. well we werent even being that precise - we were just chasing two spored basidia and not one Pan available through out the OMC had that characteristic.
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Shdwstr
FSRCanada


Registered: 02/17/01
Posts: 2,156
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens, Suphanburi Thailand - robust isolate [Re: EonTan]
#3772650 - 02/13/05 12:18 AM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm confused too!
Quote:
---I looked at two strains of Copelandia cyanescens from Tailaind. The Tai-Koh samui and the tai-Phuket Island.---
Are these not Cubes? Not Copes.
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EonTan
bird

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 468
Loc: very south
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens, Suphanburi Thailand - robust isolate [Re: Zen Peddler]
#3774493 - 02/13/05 02:41 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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EonTan=Teonan
I was actually being very precise when I was comparing each strain in circulation. Not just pleurocystidia but cheilocystidia, spores, presence or lack of clamps, spore size, color, ornamentation, etc.. I just posted pictures of the pleurocystidia and mentioned sizes of spores and pleurocystidia.
If you look at what seperates cambodginiensis from cyanescens, when you consult all sources that have viewed it and print in ENGLISH, you will see that the wild TYPE was 4-spored, not 2-spored. The 2-spored was cultivated from a 4-spored specimen. The Pleurocystidia features mentioned are not unique to a single strain in circulation. Darkened, sharpened apex is found in several strains in circulaiton.
Tropicalis is 2-spored ALWAYS. We do not have one in circulaiton. I have seen two domesticated versions and one wild one from the original collector MR.G. None were 2-spored, all had features and sizes consitent with cyanescens.
Spore sizes range from 10-13.75 X 6.25-10 micrometers. Pleurocystidia 43.75-68.75 X 12.5-25 micrometers.
Morphological features of Pleurocystidia were shared with all strains, and each strain also possesed some Unique variations in morphology of the pleurocystidia. REWORDED They were all the same but different. I could find at least 1 pleurocystidia that looked the same in every strain, but could find at least one that looked different in each strain.
When I posted pictures of Pleurocystidia I choose to post the VARIATION over the SIMILARITY. Out of say five images each I chose one to post.
Compatability studies would be needed to determine just how related each strain is. Microscopy leads to splitting, as opposed to lumping.
The variation is considerable. Macroscopically and microscopically. But the Textbook Copelandia cyanescens is a very general description. 
They need to be mated with each other. All good things and all good time.
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EonTan
bird

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 468
Loc: very south
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens, Suphanburi Thailand - robust isolate [Re: Shdwstr]
#3774515 - 02/13/05 02:46 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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There are strains of P. cubensis from those locations and strains of Copelandia cyanescens.
We are talking about the Copelandias.
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Shdwstr
FSRCanada


Registered: 02/17/01
Posts: 2,156
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens, Suphanburi Thailand - robust isolate [Re: EonTan]
#3775625 - 02/13/05 07:21 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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And everyone complains about the Blue Meanie strain as being confusing.
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Workman
1999 Spore War Veteran


Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 3,604
Loc: Oregon, USA
Last seen: 45 minutes, 41 seconds
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens, Suphanburi Thailand - robust isolate [Re: Workman]
#3783547 - 02/15/05 01:13 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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Demonstration of bluing reaction after rough handling.
-------------------- Research funded by the patrons of The Spore Works Exotic Spore Supply My Instagram Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification 
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mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens, Suphanburi Thailand - robust isolate [Re: EonTan]
#3792346 - 02/17/05 08:17 AM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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EonTan,
I would like to point out that the nefarious Mr. G. claimed to have a whole field of Panaeolus tropicalis (Copelandia tropicalis) which he said originated from spores brought to the shores of Florida on pineapple slips from sucken Spanish galleons.
Well no pineapples ever came to America in the 1800s except those that were in tins from the Dole pineapple plant which opened in 1886 on Oahu Island and shipped canned pineapples to Florida.
Mr. G. in creating a story to help romanticize his spore business into a big adventure was unaware that pineapples are from Paraguay and Brazil. Not from Hawaii.
As you may or may not be aware, pineapples were used by the Spanish to help combat scurvey on board ship during long hauls across big bodies of water.
And another point of interest is that Panaeolus cyanescens (Copelandia cyanescens) is a rather rare shroom. IF you find 500 or more Copelandia cyanescens, thaen one or two of them might possibly be a Panaeolus tropicalis.
Ther are no fields of them.
In 11 years in the Hawaiian Islands, with legal permission to pick and collect mushrooms throughout the state, I only collected one cowpie of Copelandia tropicalis. Those were identified by Tjakko Stijve for me and I never found them again. Those images are posted on my stie in my cultivation section and were photographed over a 21 day period from a fresh cow pie one day old until the 21st day when only a few popped up. None occurred after the 21st day.
And again Workman,
great cultivation. However, i think there is a little confusion. I believe that that first attempt to cultivate the copes as posted in three images were from spores of Copelandia collected at Angkor Wat, of which I also have SEMS of them.
mj
Have a shroomy day.
Was the above cultivation from spores from the first attemtp or from spores I sent to you frm last summer?
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EonTan
bird

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 468
Loc: very south
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens, Suphanburi Thailand - robust isolate [Re: mjshroomer]
#3792817 - 02/17/05 10:24 AM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yes I know all there is too know about Mr.G. Regardless of the fact that it is not a tropicalis, it is a UNIQUE variant of Copelandia cyanescens different from the other Copelandia cyanescens we find in Florida. And it does not match any of the other recorded species I can find refrences too, as originating in Florida.
It does appear similar to a Copelandia I got in a trade as a Psilocybe mexicana wild collection. In the same trade I got a Copelandia cyanescens mexican variety that is different from the "wild mexicana" variety of Copelandia.
Who knows what the Mr.G variant is. Maybe it is a mexican straijn, or maybe it is another Florida strain. It is pretty cool. It forms very nice size "bell Shaped" specimens that are VERY POTENT. Very different from any other Copelandia in circulation that I have seen macroscopically. The "mexicana" variant i have only seen spores and mycelium of, but it forms these small psuedo sclerotia like the Mr.G variant on agar. They look very similar on agar. Have to fruit it to compare with the fruits of the Mr.G wild. Maybe it is a match.
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Zen Peddler


Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens, Suphanburi Thailand - robust isolate [Re: EonTan]
#3802559 - 02/19/05 03:29 AM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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Why did you change your name mate? I didnt realise i was talking to the very person i was trying to reference in conversation with you. All good. The above bell shaped goodies sound interesting - care to pop up some pics for a look??
BTW - workman - bloody healthy specimens there as usual
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EonTan
bird

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 468
Loc: very south
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens, Suphanburi Thailand - robust isolate [Re: Zen Peddler]
#3808999 - 02/20/05 10:59 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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paranoia
Mr.G Wild "tropicalis"
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ralphster44
collector


Registered: 01/03/01
Posts: 4,657
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens, Suphanburi Thailand - robust isolate [Re: EonTan]
#3838525 - 02/26/05 06:41 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Teonan...buddy....love to hear from ya:)
Pans are my fav..I work with them all the time. Love 'em!!!!!
As a vendor now I find it hard to show my work ....z Was told it should not be pictured... All I have are my old pics....
God....I love this hobby!!!!!!
I have some vietnamese pans that are gorgeous!!!! Great strain from MJ
Believe this.....2 beautiful flushes.. I normally get 1 good one... excellent second flush:) I am so happy:)
Ralphster44
-------------------- www.RalphstersSpores.com WE SHIP TO CANADA FROM WITHIN CANADA For your safety and security, we have a Secure Website. Also for your security, we will not take your credit card number. Your security and safety is of utmost importance to us.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens, Suphanburi Thailand - robust isolate [Re: ralphster44]
#3839089 - 02/26/05 09:30 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Nice work. I've been trying to get fruits from a wild cope print that was sent to me from florida. So far, most of the isolates have been fairly poor fruiters.
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Workman
1999 Spore War Veteran


Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 3,604
Loc: Oregon, USA
Last seen: 45 minutes, 41 seconds
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens, Suphanburi Thailand - robust isolate [Re: RogerRabbit]
#3842810 - 02/27/05 06:08 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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The bag pictured produce 4 flushes before it was disposed of. The first three were significant but the last one produced only small mushrooms.
-------------------- Research funded by the patrons of The Spore Works Exotic Spore Supply My Instagram Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification 
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tregar
Stranger


Registered: 08/30/04
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens, Suphanburi Thailand - robust isolate [Re: Workman]
#3848885 - 02/28/05 07:51 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Workman, very nice project, thanks for sharing.
BR said BJ's recipe below will work well in mycobags too.
Can you elaborate a little bit on the exact recipe you used...then did you simply inoculate through the injection port and shake the bag after it was about 25% colonized?
Do you recommend a medium or large size one?
substrate recipe from BR and BJ that works well in presealable mycobags:
5 cups vermiculite 3 cups manure 10 tablespoons brown rice flour 2 cups water
(this will fill 10-12 half pints, or I imagine fill about .75 to 1.5 gallon of a medium sized bag)
It's nice to know it can be presealed and allows gas exchange at a fast enough rate to avoid bursting in the canner, looks like this method also avoids having to use a laminar flow hood.
Or, perhaps I am assuming that your processing was done differently...grain was colonized, a bag of horse manure (with 1:1 vermiculite?) was sealed with impulse sealer then sterilized in cooker for around 2 hours, removed to cool in front of a flow hood, cut open, grain poured into bag in front of flow hood, resealed with impulse sealer, allowed to colonize for around 2 weeks, then cased, etc.
Edited by tregar (02/28/05 08:21 PM)
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