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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
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Registered: 01/27/04
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Tax Resistance
    #3750711 - 02/08/05 01:27 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

2/7/2005
Movement to resist taxes over U.S. wars abroad gains momentum
Filed under: General? site admin @ 9:30 pm Email This


Thousands move to resist taxes as U.S. cements hold on Iraq

By John Byrne | RAW STORY Editor

As U.S. forces aggressively seek to pacify Iraq and Afghanistan, a growing number of Americans are quietly defying income taxes in protest, RAW STORY has learned.

Leading the charge is the National War Tax Resistance Coordinating Committee, which seeks to raise awareness about the process of resisting taxes to protest U.S. military expenditure.

Members defying income taxes can face stiff penalties. While some are as small as the cancellation of cell phone service, the Internal Revenue Service has sometimes resorted to harsher sanctions, including seizing cars and auctioning homes.

As many as eight thousand Americans resist some form of income taxes, organizers say.

?They?ve garnished my salary a few times,? says Robert Randall, a Christian pacifist and social worker in Georgia who refuses to pay any income taxes. ?One time they seized money out of our bank accounts; one time they did a seizure and sale of our house.?

On Sunday, the group unveiled a ?Peace Tax Return,? which allows individuals to signal their protest of American war expenditures to the IRS. The return is modeled on one produced in Britain by groups who are lobbying to allow conscientious objectors to pay their taxes into a special fund not accessible by the military.

Randall, who has been a registered conscientious objector since he turned 18, objects to contributing to military spending as a matter of faith.

?I?m a Christian pacifist,? he says. ?My inability to participate in warfare came along as part of my growing understanding in what it means to be a Christian.?

?One of form of participating in war would be paying for it,? he tells RAW STORY, ?so it?s simply part and parcel of not being able to kill people [which] includes not paying for people to be killed.?

Others, like Susan Van Haitsma, a housecleaner from Austin, cite specific events as their rationale for refusing to pay taxes. Van Haitsma began withholding taxes in 1985 in response to the nuclear arms race and U.S. incursions in Central America.

?I knew part of my tax money was going to fund the weapons that were hurting them,? Van Haitsma says. ?And I didn?t want any part of my earnings going to funding nuclear weapons.?

Van Haitsma has a unique strategy for avoiding taxes ? she deliberately reduced her income below the minimum tax threshold by trading some of her labor for housing. Unlike many in her Austin branch of the group who are facing collections, this has allowed her to elude penalties.

Ruth Benn, a coordinator for the national group, says members protest in a variety of ways. She says there?s definitely been an upswing in interest since the run-up to war in Iraq.

?You see more people resisting war taxes,? she asserts, ?where people really have something on their TV at night that they just can?t stomach any more.?

About five to eight thousand define themselves as ?war tax resisters,? she states.

Some also defy the federal excise tax on telephone usage, a levy which was created as a luxury tax to fund the Spanish-American war. The tax was increased in Vietnam. Today, it is also applied to cell phones.

Randall says he recently had his cell phone service terminated for refusing to pay the tax. By law, phone companies are ultimately supposed to leave collection to the IRS.

?I?m telling everybody don?t use Cingular,? Randall says. ?Find a telephone company that understands the proper process.?

With the explosion of cell phone providers and new voice-over Internet telephone providers, many of the companies are new to tax resisting.

?Now that there?s thousands of phone companies it means that we have to educate all of them,? he remarks. ?The upside of that is that, is if there?s thousands of phone companies, there?s thousands of people to share witness with and educate about what?s really happening with our money.?

Benn says she?s heard criticism of her movement. Some have asked why she doesn?t use the traditional channels of lobbying Congress.

?As someone active in the peace movement, I say change will happen from a variety of different methods and this is just one of them,? she maintains.

Benn also refuses to pay any of her income taxes. She says she?s had money seized from her bank account over the years. Her decision, she says, centered on the realization that nearly half her taxes were going to the military.

Benn calls the Peace Tax Form ?a method of making it easier for people who are really angry and haven?t figured out what they want to do,?

noting that it can be used ?just as a means of protest even if they don?t refuse anything.?

Randall says Americans should take tax resistance to heart.

?I would definitely encourage people to think seriously about what their tax money is being used for and whether that?s something their consciences will allow them to participate in,? he says.

?In the New Testament there?s a passage where Jesus says your heart will always be where your treasure is,? he notes. ?What goes on with your money is not just a materialistic issue ? it goes to the heart and soul of who we are.?

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/index.php?p=40


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Tax Resistance [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #3750727 - 02/08/05 01:31 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

You do realize, of course, that if the US were to simply pull out of Iraq at this point the whole place would dissolve into a horrific civil war, much more violent, and much worse than it was to start out with. This sounds more like a self righteous excuse to try and save a few bucks than an attempt to actually help anybody.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
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Re: Tax Resistance [Re: Phluck]
    #3750772 - 02/08/05 01:46 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I wouldn't have called it an attempt to help anyone other than one's self.

that if the US were to simply pull out of Iraq at this point the whole place would dissolve into a horrific civil war, much more violent, and much worse than it was to start out with.

This conjecture is something I'd be willing to risk.

You never know, it could also dissolve into horrific celebration, with much more high-fiving. No more Saddam, no more US... I'd be pretty happy :grin:.


I do believe strongly that we need to starve this beast. Even to the short term detriment of ourselves.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Tax Resistance [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #3750782 - 02/08/05 01:49 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

You never know, it could also dissolve into horrific celebration, with much more high-fiving. No more Saddam, no more US... I'd be pretty happy

Well, considering all the violent criminal gangs, opposing political groups, religious fanatics, and everyone all vying for power, this doesn't seem like a hope that is based in reality.

Hell, maybe if I start eating paper, I'll fart out dollar bills!


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
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Re: Tax Resistance [Re: Phluck]
    #3750821 - 02/08/05 02:02 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

and everyone all vying for power

Thats a big part of the problem. There never should have been an "Iraq"... Should have left the sunni's, shiite's, and kurd's to govern themselves.

Maybe a power vacuum could afford these groups a chance to duke it out a bit before they split away from eachother. Of course they are all probably going to want control of the fields.

But again, not my problem, not my money.


(Lets not completely rule out the mass celebrations though)


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Tax Resistance [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #3750875 - 02/08/05 02:17 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

(Lets not completely rule out the mass celebrations though)

Well, if you do some actual research on the political situation in Iraq, it is pretty easy to rule out the mass celebrations.

It's pretty easy to say that a civil war would be good for another country when you're sitting on your ass in a wealthy, politically stable society. Then again who cares about those people, it's "not your problem" anyways.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Tax Resistance [Re: Phluck]
    #3750977 - 02/08/05 02:47 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Phluck writes:

Then again who cares about those people, it's "not your problem" anyways.

And that -- believe it or not -- is probably the strongest possible argument anyone can make for having opposed the toppling of Hussein from power by the coalition forces. It quite literally was not anyone's problem but that of the Iraqis and their immediate neighbors. The fact that Iraq had for decades supported international terrorists was certainly problematical, but was it worth the cost to US, British, Australian etc. lives to remove that risk or would it have cost less to let them continue to operate out of there in the hopes that bin Laden (who let's face it was operating out of Afghanistan anyway) was the worst (or most capable) of the bunch? A reasonable argument could be made that it was better to suffer the occasional 9/11, embassy bombing etc. rather than lance the boil.

Phred


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Tax Resistance [Re: Phred]
    #3750993 - 02/08/05 02:52 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)


The fact that Iraq had for decades supported international terrorists

Hehe....name me one Middle-Eastern Arab country that doesn't have its hands in the terrorism cookie jar.


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OfflineProsgeopax
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Re: Tax Resistance [Re: Phred]
    #3751017 - 02/08/05 03:00 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
The fact that Iraq had for decades supported international terrorists was certainly problematical, but was it worth the cost to US...



Do you have any proof that Iraq was supporting terrorism aimed at U.S. citizens NOT engaged in military operations (except those directly related to protecting their homeland)?

Quote:

A reasonable argument could be made that it was better to suffer the occasional 9/11, embassy bombing etc. rather than lance the boil.



Please make a REASONABLE argument showing that Iraq was a threat to U.S. citizens sitting at home. A listing of Iraqi armaments capable of being deployed to the U.S. would be a nice start... Iraqi ICBMs, Naval and Air forces that posed a direct threat to American soil and those dwelling on it.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Tax Resistance [Re: Phred]
    #3751022 - 02/08/05 03:02 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

It quite literally was not anyone's problem but that of the Iraqis and their immediate neighbors.

What about countries with economic dependancy on Iraq's oil? Like the US, for example...

The fact that Iraq had for decades supported international terrorists was certainly problematical, but was it worth the cost to US, British, Australian etc. lives to remove that risk or would it have cost less to let them continue to operate out of there in the hopes that bin Laden (who let's face it was operating out of Afghanistan anyway) was the worst (or most capable) of the bunch?

Got any examples where it was demonstrated that Iraq had anything to do with an actual terrorist attack? It doesn't seem to me that Iraq had any reason to deal with terrorists other than money. They certainly weren't ruled by Islamic fundamentalists, and they didn't really stand to benefit from terrorist attacks.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
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Registered: 01/27/04
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Re: Tax Resistance [Re: Phluck]
    #3751033 - 02/08/05 03:06 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

It's pretty easy to say that a civil war would be good for another country when you're sitting on your ass in a wealthy, politically stable society. Then again who cares about those people, it's "not your problem" anyways.

Somehow an invasion and occupation by a foreign power is better than a possible civil war? (Its not like iraqi's aren't dying in droves as it is) What I meant earlier was that a lack of centralized government would help by allowing smaller regionalized "governments" to take over, it is my contention that smaller regionalized governments cause less problems because you can have different sets of "rules" for different sets of people.

Then again who cares about those people

Fuck that. My taxes ARE hurting these people. Without taxes there would be 1000+ more US Soldiers and tens of thousands more Iraqis. My taxes only serve those that will take cheap iraqi oil and labor and sell it back to me at jacked up prices.

I do not at all subscribe to the "we have to finish what we shouldn't have started anyway" mantra. The area now known as Iraq was never a haven for stability, and will never be. It can enjoy relative stability if its inhabitants are allowed to form their own governments free from western intervention.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Tax Resistance [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #3751057 - 02/08/05 03:14 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Well, the civil war would not have been likely without the invasion and occupation. And it's not a possible civil war, it's pretty much definite. I don't know what planet you're living on, but power vacuums in former dictatorships generally don't turn into love-ins.

Think of it this way, you've got a Jenga tower, and your friend tells you he's going to remove a piece that will obviously topple the whole thing. You tell him it's a bad idea. He removes the piece, throws it out the window, and he replaces it with his finger. Now, in accordance with your opinion on Iraq, since it was a bad idea to remove the piece in the first place, he should just pull his finger out and let the thing sort itself out.

Baghdad itself is home to millions of people of different ethnicities and opinions. I seriously doubt it would be peacefully ruled by several different governments.

The situation in Iraq is shaky, but at this point, it would be a whole lot worse without the american presence there. Most of the insurgents aren't even political groups, they're thugs and bandits. They pull out now and the place turns into Bosnia 15 years ago.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Tax Resistance [Re: Phluck]
    #3751074 - 02/08/05 03:19 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)


Got any examples where it was demonstrated that Iraq had anything to do with an actual terrorist attack?

The only evidence I have seen that Iraq was involved in terrorism was when Saddam would give cash payments to families of Palestinian suicide bombers.


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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
and fell

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Re: Tax Resistance [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3751288 - 02/08/05 04:08 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I don't know what planet you're living on, but power vacuums in former dictatorships generally don't turn into love-ins.

The mass celebration/high-fiving claim was intended to be somewhat humorous due to its riduculousness in a literal sense, but I felt harbored mild undertones of truth in that IMO most iraqi patriots would be happy to rid their country of a foreign superpower.(And then they'd go to work on eachother)


Think of it this way, you've got a Jenga tower, and your friend tells you he's going to remove a piece that will obviously topple the whole thing. You tell him it's a bad idea. He removes the piece, throws it out the window, and he replaces it with his finger. Now, in accordance with your opinion on Iraq, since it was a bad idea to remove the piece in the first place, he should just pull his finger out and let the thing sort itself out.

I like your analogy but I see it a bit different. Saddam Hussein was the finger, we already knocked the tower over, and now we are trying to rebuild it (Though quite a few pieces are going missing in the process :grin:). Though I would predict that the tower will continue to fall, until the iraqis rebuild it themselves.

Baghdad itself is home to millions of people of different ethnicities and opinions. I seriously doubt it would be peacefully ruled by several different governments.

Urban centers are a big problem in this way, not just in Iraq. I wouldn't expect Baghdad to be ruled by different governments, unless small localized gangs count. In close quartered living conditions I'd expect the majority to get their way, and the minority left with the decision of beliefs/opinion vs. location.


The situation in Iraq is shaky, but at this point, it would be a whole lot worse without the american presence there. Most of the insurgents aren't even political groups, they're thugs and bandits. They pull out now and the place turns into Bosnia 15 years ago.

That may very well be, but again, I think those not in/nor ever in support of this shouldn't pay for it. Leave the financing up to the elites with dollar signs in their eyes and their spineless lackey believers. My whole position is this: I certainly sound selfish, but I refuse to help the iraqis if helping them also helps my big problem, western elites.


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OfflineThef0rk
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Re: Tax Resistance [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #3751324 - 02/08/05 04:50 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

On Sunday, the group unveiled a ?Peace Tax Return,? which allows individuals to signal their protest of American war expenditures to the IRS. The return is modeled on one produced in Britain by groups who are lobbying to allow conscientious objectors to pay their taxes into a special fund not accessible by the military.




That's a great idea! We should also have funds for those that don't want to pay social security taxes, welfare taxes, etc.


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--Popeye (The Sailor Man)


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Offlinephi1618
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Re: Tax Resistance [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #3751412 - 02/08/05 05:19 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I know a couple who haven't payed taxes in 25 years, because they are pacifists that don't want to support the American military. The way they do it is by keeping their income below the minimum taxable income. It's not quite as bad as it sounds, since he runs his own business and gets to deduct some expenses; but, still pretty radical.

Just refusing to pay taxes is a good way to end up in jail.


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InvisibleSoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst

Registered: 11/13/04
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Re: Tax Resistance [Re: phi1618]
    #3751420 - 02/08/05 05:22 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Do these pacifists have some way to defend their business? I sure as hell don't want the police that I'm paying to protect their business. If you want to "opt out" of some taxations, then you should be allowed. However, you won't be getting any of those protections. Military protection, however, isn't something you can "opt out" of.

Actually, those institutions that some people might "opt out" of should be privatized anyway, but who's counting.


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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: Tax Resistance [Re: phi1618]
    #3751435 - 02/08/05 05:25 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Also, the 0% tax liability level is usually around 20K for a couple. Thats freaking pathetic. Thats a piss poor income for two people running a company together. Thats really, really sad.


--------------------


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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
and fell

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Re: Tax Resistance [Re: SoopaX]
    #3751462 - 02/08/05 05:34 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)



Military protection, however, isn't something you can "opt out" of.

A reasonable defensive military is one thing, our current military is something entirely different. Its not an extension of our collective penis. Its an unneccesary money sink that the elite use to increase their power while we foot the bill, if thats your idea of a good thing you may also like sodomy.


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OfflineProsgeopax
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Re: Tax Resistance [Re: SoopaX]
    #3751471 - 02/08/05 05:36 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

SoopaX said:
Do these pacifists have some way to defend their business? I sure as hell don't want the police that I'm paying to protect their business.



Funds for local police come out of different tax revenue streams than the federal income tax - though the federal politicians have been attempting to buy off the local police agencies in the past several years in the name of 'public safety.' In reality, this is a power grab so local law enforcement will be more compliant to federal dictates.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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