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OfflineAreoZephin
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Hm.
    #3749961 - 02/08/05 05:11 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Realize what isn't human, then you can evolve.


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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: Hm. [Re: AreoZephin]
    #3749968 - 02/08/05 05:21 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

aha! but first you would need to know what IS human, wouldn't you! And that isn't as easy as it sounds.


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OfflineAreoZephin
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Re: Hm. [Re: exclusive58]
    #3750005 - 02/08/05 05:57 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

The hardest things are sometimes the easiest. Depends on who you are.


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InvisibleCJay
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Re: Hm. [Re: AreoZephin]
    #3750010 - 02/08/05 06:01 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Look to the future, the cosmos and the heart

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OfflineFliquid
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Re: Hm. [Re: AreoZephin]
    #3750020 - 02/08/05 06:09 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

AreoZephin said:
Realize what isn't human, then you can evolve.




But what if your version of what isn't human is wrong compared to the other human realising he isn't human?  :smirk:


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OfflineAreoZephin
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Re: Hm. [Re: Fliquid]
    #3750037 - 02/08/05 06:25 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

"realising he isn't human"

You are human no matter what. You must first realize you are human, then you realize what isn't human within your qualities, your senses.

Is changing the molecular structure of a glass cup with your mind, human? This isn't human. Well, this is not human because it is not common as walking.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Hm. [Re: AreoZephin]
    #3752675 - 02/08/05 08:04 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

hm, i like :smile:


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Hm. [Re: exclusive58]
    #3752818 - 02/08/05 08:32 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

exclusive58 said:
aha! but first you would need to know what IS human, wouldn't you! And that isn't as easy as it sounds.




http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=human

:grin: :thumbup:


he he, words are hilarious.


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: Hm. [Re: Gomp]
    #3753288 - 02/08/05 09:42 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

what if 'human' itself is what we aren't?

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OfflineAreoZephin
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Re: Hm. [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3754899 - 02/09/05 05:25 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

It's just a definition though. Take the name "human" away you just have what IS.

"What if we aren't females but males or males but females"

It's just a meaning. Take it away, it's just what IS.


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Re: Hm. [Re: AreoZephin]
    #3754921 - 02/09/05 05:36 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

"What if we aren't females but males or males but females"



hm?

Quote:

Take the name "human" away you just have what IS


- is that condensed catalyst for evolution then?

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OfflineAreoZephin
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Re: Hm. [Re: CJay]
    #3754935 - 02/09/05 05:48 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

What I'm talking about is that I saw some people say, "what if we aren't males but females"

These are defined. Words that depict. If you took away the word "male and female" it wouldn't matter. We'd just know that this one has a penis this one has a vagina. It wouldn't matter.

If you take away the word "human" and the definition, and 200 years later humans developed the sense of moving objects with E.S.P., the mind, or with implants that allowed it, such of what permits for the dictionary definition wouldn't have to be changed because it wouldn't exist.

Evolution wouldn't exist because it would be, just is

"Hmm, moving an object with the mind, I wonder if this is human?" of course, it isn't because not every human is doing that and is unheard of. Possible science fiction. If then this is not human, then make it human. You have evolved.

Many things. Realize what isn't human, and then you can evolve.


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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: Hm. [Re: Gomp]
    #3754968 - 02/09/05 06:06 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=human





Unfortunately, the dictionary doesn't have the answer to all our questions. And this question isn't as obvious as it sounds.

Until medieval times, we considered women, strangers and slaves not to be humans..

Is a foetus with developped arms and legs of six months old a human?
If the answer is yes, is a three month foetus a human?
Is an egg that has just been fertilized a human?
A person that has been in the coma for six years with a beating heart and breathing lungs, is this still being human?
A human brain, living but isolated in a nutritive liquid, is this human?
A computer capable of reproducing all the thought mechanisms of of a brain, does it have the merit of being entitled as human?
A robot that looks like a human on the outside and has a brain similar to ours, is this human?
A human clone, genetically fabricated in order to supply organs just in case its twin's organs don't work, is that a human being?

IMO, the notion of "human being" is going to be harder and harder to define.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Hm. [Re: AreoZephin]
    #3755161 - 02/09/05 08:10 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

If you take away the word "human" and the definition, and 200 years later humans developed the sense of moving objects with E.S.P., the mind, or with implants that allowed it, such of what permits for the dictionary definition wouldn't have to be changed because it wouldn't exist.

What about humans who can run exceptional speeds, or do complex math in their heads? Are they not human?

Also, when are people going to get an understanding of evolution. Evolution is not constant improvement, or the gaining of abilities, it is simply change. A virus like HIV is highly evolved because it has adapted in such a way that allows it to continue to be passed on and avoid being killed out by treatment. There are no life forms on the planet that aren't the result of just as much evolution as us.


--------------------
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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: Hm. [Re: Phluck]
    #3755565 - 02/09/05 10:41 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

this is the strangest thread. I think we're all arguing over our personal definitions of the word 'human' and so on... what AeroZephin seems to be saying is, "whatever you are, you are, and whatever you're not, you most certainly are not." I for one agree, not that it actually means anything.

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OfflineAreoZephin
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Re: Hm. [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3755993 - 02/09/05 12:42 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
What about humans who can run exceptional speeds, or do complex math in their heads? Are they not human?




That's still human. Any human can do that if they tried, you can improve your physical abilities and mental abilities. That's Adaptation.

Quote:

Also, when are people going to get an understanding of evolution. Evolution is not constant improvement, or the gaining of abilities, it is simply change. A virus like HIV is highly evolved because it has adapted in such a way that allows it to continue to be passed on and avoid being killed out by treatment. There are no life forms on the planet that aren't the result of just as much evolution as us.




A virus like HIV is not "highly evolved", that is still adaptation XD And I'm the one throwing the word evolution around?

That is not complete change. It didn't turn itself into a different virus. What you are saying of it adapting: that's adaptation.

A human running faster, learning, etc. That's gaining knowledge, gaining ability. Using the knowledge to better one's mind, but not through means of complete change. He does not rip his legs off and put ostridge legs on through means of evolution through science, science through knowledge.

Evolution exists through knowledge. If we decided to change our eyes with knowledge, if we learned.. we could take our eyes out and put tiger eyes in. Evolution through science, science through knowledge. No adaptation. Your mind and body already knows how to use eyes. You can't say "Oh well the mind adapted to those new eyes" no, it's just gaining that ability again.

Cloning and DNA restructuring, evolution through science.

"Oh hey! Look at the biological structure of a plant plant, look at that! This is certaintly not human! But hey, we can use this on a human to replace his hair with plant molecules with DNA restructuring to make his hair not bald when he grows up." Evolution. Because your hair never had a plant molecule like that one they just put in, ever, ever and never would have if science didn't exist. And if knowledge didn't exist, (Realization) science would not exist.

"Wow an apple fell from the tree" - Realization, and thus gaining knowledge.

So, realizing what is not human you will evolve.

That isn't the only way to evolve. That is one. But it is a major one.


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Edited by AreoZephin (02/09/05 12:44 PM)

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Hm. [Re: AreoZephin]
    #3756123 - 02/09/05 01:21 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

That's still human. Any human can do that if they tried, you can improve your physical abilities and mental abilities. That's Adaptation.

Bullshit. There are lots of people who train with great effort and are never able to reach exceptional speeds, and some people, no matter how hard they try, suck at math. Not all people are physically identical, while practice and effort can approve our abilities, some people are simply born with greater skills than others.

A virus like HIV is not "highly evolved", that is still adaptation XD And I'm the one throwing the word evolution around?

That is not complete change. It didn't turn itself into a different virus. What you are saying of it adapting: that's adaptation.


Why is it not highly evolved? Some of the changes the virus makes are not a complete change, but it didn't just appear out of nowhere... it evolved over millions of years, from other viruses before it. The reason it survived is because it is well adapted.

Like I said, evolution is not a series of steps forward, mutation is when genes get fucked up, not when they miraculously change for the better.

I'm not saying that the changes we might make to ourselves wouldn't be a form of evolution, but evolution is not a gradual aquisition of new abilities, it is the survival of the fittest. HIV seems to be even better at reproducing and surviving than we are, and is thus, a highly evolved organism, well tuned through natural selected to be extremely adept at passing itself on.

How is that NOT highly evolved?

"Human" is just a label for a large group of organisms with fairly similar genes. The difference between me and you, and me and a mouse is just a matter of degree.


--------------------
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OfflineAreoZephin
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Re: Hm. [Re: Phluck]
    #3756488 - 02/09/05 02:44 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Bullshit. There are lots of people who train with great effort and are never able to reach exceptional speeds, and some people, no matter how hard they try, suck at math. Not all people are physically identical, while practice and effort can approve our abilities, some people are simply born with greater skills than others.




How is it bullshit? If their body permits it, it is adaptation. If there body does not permit it, then there is no adaptation. You discover you become smarter than other people, or faster than other people through training and knowledge. If you reach the peak of it, and there are still others faster and smarter than you, you can not adapt anymore. But that seems illogical because there is no limit to how fast you can go or how smart you can be. Where is the limit in that? You can train, build muscles and run faster, there is no limit. You can learn as much as you want, and become as smart as someone else if you are willing to be patient.

Yes, they can be born with greater abilities. But this does not handicap everyone else but them from becoming as great or greater. If that person sucks at math it is because he or she is not interested in it, or has a physical handicap or mental condition such as ADD or being retarded and slow. If someone is shorter that someone else, this was more of caused by a major mutation somewhere in world history that spread over time, than evolution. And yes I will argue with that because scientist -invented- evolution as they -invented- a hole in the ozone layer. They found a way to make it real to believe. When really there is way more clerical evidence then slow evolution.

Chemicals from certain plants back in ancient times allowing this to happen. It is even happening today and is widely known to cause mutation. Diseases. Etc. Mutation. Just because a dwarf was born, this is no evolution. You don't know if back in ancient times they didn't chop people's legs off for crime and then mate to cause shorter people, there can be many more reasons than SLOW evolution. Their brain did not change color all of a sudden. Their brain didn't become shaped differently. There was no extra lobe.

You are saying evolution exists. When we haven't been around long enough to know for proof proof. But we go off believing what we hear from scientists who go out there and dig up those fossils when those fossils could have been planted there. I remember I while back when some lady got proved wrong for her dig up of an ancient civilization and all her shit was a hoax. Well I don't remember if it was a tribe or what. But that sure got me to think!

So people are willing to go to vast amounts to prove something that really isn't proved but a lie.

The only way for evolution right now is through science. That's it. And they made it that way. It's pretty obvious. By science, by technology, by knowledge of what we are doing with our DNA human genome codes. The plant is not human, we can evolve from it. And only through science if we do before it is to late.



Quote:

HIV seems to be even better at reproducing and surviving than we are, and is thus, a highly evolved organism, well tuned through natural selected to be extremely adept at passing itself on.

How is that NOT highly evolved?




Well for one. Something that highly evolved and better at reproducing and surviving than we are;. I'm surprised we are still a booming organism ourselves. If HIV was evolved, over time for it to evolve to that state, would be EVOLVING right now at a rapid rate instead of adapting, especially at what you are saying also: at passing itself on.

" 'Human' is just a label. " Yes. It is a label, it is just a definition. To classify, to realize.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Hm. [Re: AreoZephin]
    #3756791 - 02/09/05 03:44 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

If that person sucks at math it is because he or she is not interested in it, or has a physical handicap or mental condition such as ADD or being retarded and slow.

So you either have the -exact- same mathematical abilities as everyone else, or you've got some kind of handicap? When I was in high school, math was easy for me, I found it boring, and didn't want anything to do with it, but I never had any trouble learning it. There were people who slaved away at math in my class, perfectly intelligent and reasonable in many areas, who were unable to do very well despite continuous and sustained effort.

If someone is shorter that someone else, this was more of caused by a major mutation somewhere in world history that spread over time, than evolution.

Evolution is just a bunch of mutations... what do you think causes evolutionary changes... magic?

You don't know if back in ancient times they didn't chop people's legs off for crime and then mate to cause shorter people, there can be many more reasons than SLOW evolution.

You aren't honestly suggesting that chopping someones legs off will cause them to have shorter children, are you? That makes no sense whatsoever. I might as well proclaim that sneezing gets you pregnant.

If HIV was evolved, over time for it to evolve to that state, would be EVOLVING right now at a rapid rate instead of adapting, especially at what you are saying also: at passing itself on.

Uh, adapting and evolving are the same thing. Natural selection, my friend. You really need to educate yourself on the subject before trying to debunk it.

You don't really seem to have a good grasp on evolution or genetics, and why these things are considered valid ideas in the scientific community.

Read, then get back to me:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_selection
http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/Main_Page
http://www.talkorigins.org/


--------------------
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OfflineAreoZephin
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Re: Hm. [Re: Phluck]
    #3761012 - 02/10/05 09:27 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

What you said about someone being born with better gifts than other people would only lead me to say that it was handed down to them by the means of the parent who trained themselves to store that information in the brain over time handed down to the child, intellectual wise. Somehow saying that it is a random chain of numbers, every number being that generation of family that somewhere in the chain that ancestor had that property in their genetics.

Let's say 500 years ago this man had trained himself to become smart in science, and 500 years later a child is born who grows up to be a genius like Albert Einstein. Albert's traits from 500 years ago had been carried through a chain of numbers that had eventually inevitably been chosen for that child.

Basically it had been recorded into the DNA structure, or whatever else, and all the other people were carriers.

Now if it was selected at a continuous rate without any carrier, yeah, then I can see an evolution.

Such as a person getting taller or stronger over time because of the diets or exercise, and the more the options the same a better chance of there being a faster stronger person.

It should be called random selection rather than natural selection. Evolution sounds as if it is merging or dividing itself for the better of itself, over time slowly, when really that's not the case because it's still weak in areas for the worse. Adaptation, HIV becoming immune to a new medicine because it can and because it's structure can permit it, but no sign or anything of it becoming airborne or living without oxygen.

Evolution is as a superior mutation event all of a sudden, that ever baby born all of a sudden starting right now would have their brains operation at maximum potential, and had some superior property than we did. Something changing at a maximum rate.

It's still strange to me though why something without intellect would want to change or adapt to harm something, in the first place when nothing harmful had to exist. And that if it couldn't survive there, it wouldn't. It would have to change all of a sudden.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Hm. [Re: AreoZephin]
    #3761057 - 02/10/05 09:40 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Basically it had been recorded into the DNA structure, or whatever else, and all the other people were carriers.

Knowledge is not passed down through DNA. When you learn something new, or train to be a faster runner, this does not change your DNA whatsoever. That was kind of an idea that people had prior to Darwin, and prior to an understanding of DNA, but there's no evidence to suggest anything like this is true at all.

I'm not sure where you got this notion from. By that logic, people who lose their legs in accidents would be likely to give birth to legless children, which we know isn't true at all.

Evolution is as a superior mutation event all of a sudden, that ever baby born all of a sudden starting right now would have their brains operation at maximum potential, and had some superior property than we did. Something changing at a maximum rate.

Evolution is not something that happens all at once.


It should be called random selection rather than natural selection.


Why? What's random about the unfit dying, and the fit living?

Think of it this way; you've got 50 dogs that are born, and they're all slightly different. Some are a bit faster, some are a bit slower, some smarter, some dumber, etc...

Now, some of them are going to die off when they're fairly young, before they can reproduce. These ones will probably be the slower and stupider ones, so now we've already got just the more capable ones reproducing. That is natural selection. You span this over millions of genereations for millions of years, and you'll see much bigger changes. Some might be able to hop up on their hind legs and eat things higher up in trees, they've already got an advantage that allows then to get at food more efficiently, and this makes them more likely to live longer and give birth to children who have this same trait. Of those children, the ones who are best at getting into the trees can do the same thing again, and of their children, the best who get into trees reproduce, and it continues... a few thousand generations and they might be fully capable of walking around on hind legs... they might even have a better ability to grasp things that are in the trees.

It seems you still don't quite understand evolution, and you still need to do some more reading.


--------------------
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OfflineAreoZephin
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Re: Hm. [Re: Phluck]
    #3761186 - 02/10/05 10:24 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I just don't like reading long ass websites. I like figuring stuff out on my own from small pieces of information like this.

But I didn't mean as if I chopped my legs off my daughter isn't going to have legs -_-

I meant that if this happened many times over thousands of years to a generation of that family that it might be possible that there would be a child born without legs eventually, caused by all the misfortunes.

It still seems wrong that somehow some trait of knowledge isn't genetically passed down by a vast amount of recording into the brain through a generation, DNA or not.

But if evolution existed or exists, we aren't going to have any concrete proof unless we survive a million years. So why not just force an evolution? It seems that THAT would be more realistic :laugh:

And then another thing I wanted to say was another subject not to change it but add another subject.

About the universe yesterday when my friend was smoking some pot he usually only talks about that shit when he does. Which is probably a theory already made logical but proving it through math and shit like Hawking. But I donno but it seemed very logical to me.

Ok. How the universe is infinite yet not infinite at the same time.

You have the superior being whatever, in it's reality. Creates this reality, let's (God) stick it all in a little glass ball.



Bare with me.,

That dot in the middle is 99999999999999999999 galaxies.




Every one of those dots are 9999999999999999 galaxies. Some planets can be the size of our galaxy, because basically it's unlimited, "unlimited".



A black hole opens up, so big we can't see it. We wouldn't see it because we are small. We get sucked in, we don't even know it.

It makes us smaller. While all the other dots are expanding and de-spanding in various wayyyyyyyy the fuck out there areas.

Now the sides, where physical reality might actually meet God's reality, which we will never, ever, get there. And I mean EVER get there by our will to fly there in some space ship from a eon year times 999999999999999 of human knowledge. By the time we'd have a 0.000000000000000% chance of meeting the verge of the other side our race would have evolved 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999

Times

99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999

And basically beyond human mathematical whatever.

The galaxies that are hitting the side of where reality meets reality aren't going anywhere because there are laws beyond our human laws of science etc that we have no idea of.

Which makes my theory correct eventually, and every universal theory correct eventually.


lol.


So now it is plausible that the black hole has laws that has infinite laws of anything that has to do with physicality and can do anything in this reality that is in this reality. It could make us bigger, smaller, create parallel dimensions.

Could create a time gap that merges with our dimension that is linked with another one, copying our universe and merging it at the same time create it possible for ghosts and paranormal activity as a 'recording' in our time that plays back over and over again at certain times.



And also, life exists out there. There's no doubt.


And also, if God didn't exist it is invetible for him not to exist because given the complexity of this reality would possibly create his own reality giving that reality the power to create itself. Or vice versa.

I don't quiet know about evolution though. I tend to disbelieve it and believe it at the same time. So that's something I'm still trying to grasp still because scientists basically invented it as they invted the hole in the ozone layer.


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Re: Hm. [Re: AreoZephin]
    #3761222 - 02/10/05 10:34 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I just don't like reading long ass websites. I like figuring stuff out on my own from small pieces of information like this.

I'm sorry, but if you want to learn actual facts, sometimes you have to read the long information. People have dedicated their lives to testing and exploring ideas, and all you have to do is spend a few minutes reading about it and you can learn a lot. Making assumptions about things is not a good way to learn.

This is like attending the first day of class, and then deciding you can just think about it and you'll figure everything else out on your own. You'll probably end up failing the test.

I meant that if this happened many times over thousands of years to a generation of that family that it might be possible that there would be a child born without legs eventually, caused by all the misfortunes.

There are occasionally children born without legs. Chopping off people's legs will have no effect on this whatsoever.

It still seems wrong that somehow some trait of knowledge isn't genetically passed down by a vast amount of recording into the brain through a generation, DNA or not.

Knowledge is passed down... only it's passed down by TELLING PEOPLE THINGS. I've given you some pages of knowledge that has been passed down, which you have refused to read because it's too much work.

But if evolution existed or exists, we aren't going to have any concrete proof unless we survive a million years. So why not just force an evolution? It seems that THAT would be more realistic

You can cause genetic changes (you'll need to STUDY the information that's already available to be able to do this, of course....), but that doesn't actually prove anything about natural selection or evolution.

I'm no astrophysicist, so I'm not even going to touch the universe theory there...


I don't quiet know about evolution though. I tend to disbelieve it and believe it at the same time. So that's something I'm still trying to grasp still because scientists basically invented it as they invted the hole in the ozone layer.

The hole in the ozone layer was discovered through observation. Just like plants, animals, the ocean... just because you can't plainly observe it doesn't mean that someone else is unable to.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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OfflineAreoZephin
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Re: Hm. [Re: Phluck]
    #3761285 - 02/10/05 10:52 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Sometimes people who figure things out on their own, are ones who make the ideas better and sometimes make them more logical. Newton for example.

Still, like I said. Why would something have to evolve/adapt to stay alive when nothing threatening is there to kill it? And if it was an origin of life, it still would have to change in a second to stay alive given when Earth supposedly was a rock and whatever. Example. You have soil and moisture, why would something need to change? And if it arrived, and wasn't able to survive, it wouldn't have because it would have to that second.


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The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so.

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Hm. [Re: AreoZephin]
    #3761339 - 02/10/05 11:05 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Sometimes people who figure things out on their own, are ones who make the ideas better and sometimes make them more logical. Newton for example.

That's true for newton because he didn't have much background to begin from. Nowadays, most of the people who figure things out on their own, without a knowledge of what has already been figured out, and how to actively test things end up coming up with ridiculous nonsense theories. Take alexchiu.com, for example, try reading through his explanations of biology. He's the kind of guy who figures things out on his own.

Thinking that you're going to be able to out do everyone is history without trying to understand what is already know is a little arrogant, don't you think? And if you don't have the patience to read through a few pages of information, what makes you think you have the patience to critically examine your own ideas and work out any flaws or errors?

Why would something have to evolve/adapt to stay alive when nothing threatening is there to kill it?

What about disease? Or in other parts of the world, famine? Selection still happens now, there are some people who are more likely to reproduce for various reasons.

Soil is organic matter, by the way.

Again, the need to change does not make mutation happen more often. Mutation always happens. It's just that when you start killing off certain things, and allowing others to live, certain mutations end up being better at surviving.

You know, it's not that hard to find the answers to a lot of the questions, I'm not going to sit here and give you a huge evolution lesson when I've already linked you to several pages that will most likely do a better job.

READ.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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OfflineAreoZephin
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Re: Hm. [Re: Phluck]
    #3761382 - 02/10/05 11:17 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

If because I don't let other people's information depending on what it is, that's already figured out run my life and my ideas, then ok, I'm arrogant. And as long as that doesn't matter to me that's super fine with me.

And still why would something need to change if something there isn't threatening? Ok so soil is organic, so? Why would something need to change to make a plant? lol


--------------------
The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so.

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Re: Hm. [Re: AreoZephin]
    #3761408 - 02/10/05 11:23 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

If because I don't let other people's information depending on what it is, that's already figured out run my life and my ideas, then ok, I'm arrogant. And as long as that doesn't matter to me that's super fine with me.

That's fine, as long as you're okay with not making sense sometimes, and occasionally believing things that people have demonstrated to be catagorically wrong, and you don't care about having other people take you seriously.

Organic means it's made out of stuff that was once alive.

What I meant was, soil did not exist until loooooooong after life originated. Nothing HAS to change, sometimes, if things are really lucky, they get kind of broken in a way that helps them, that's what evolution is. Again, you would already know this if you had gone ahead and read the links I provided, but apparently you're too busy trying to think up revolutionary ideas that you think are going to be better than all the others to care what other people have discovered.

There are some places on earth where there are extremely hot unwater volcano things that occasionally spit out bits of amino acids, which are what bits of DNA and RNA are made out of. It's thought that some of these bits probably fell together in such a way that the very first basic little bits of life were formed.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Hm. [Re: Phluck]
    #3761449 - 02/10/05 11:30 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

There are some places on earth where there are extremely hot unwater volcano things that occasionally spit out bits of amino acids, which are what bits of DNA and RNA are made out of. It's thought that some of these bits probably fell together in such a way that the very first basic little bits of life were formed.

OK, now explain how alphabet soup came to be.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineAreoZephin
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Re: Hm. [Re: Swami]
    #3761479 - 02/10/05 11:36 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

That's fine, as long as you're okay with not making sense sometimes, and occasionally believing things that people have demonstrated to be categorically wrong, and you don't care about having other people take you seriously.

----------------

Yeah. o.o As long as I'm not - not making sense all the time. Because I have been told from many people that I'm not clear of what I say and I am fine with that.

-----------

people have demonstrated to be categorically wrong

-----------

Well for one I know the universe is infinite in a different way and that everything is possible so, if people don't want to take me seriously that's their problem XD

And I mean I don't care if evolution is real or not, it still seems un-real/real because man is the one who proved or disproves it and man is not God and man evolved from an Ape. *nudge*

AND NO, I'm not saying I'm such an arrogant fool, which if you think that I am that much of one, jesus, where someone tells me that if I stick my hand on the stove and it'll burn and I don't believe them and do it. But really complex things, if they are that complex I tend to not believe their "provingness" on it, and I will be arrogant on it.


--------------------
The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so.

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Hm. [Re: Phluck]
    #3761480 - 02/10/05 11:37 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

There is also strong evidence that amino acids and other organic compounds exist in comets. An experiment was performed to see if these compounds could withstand the force of a comet impacting the Earth. What they found was that most of the compounds WOULDN'T survive the impact...but instead combine into even larger amino acids, a few steps closer to proteins themselves.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Hm. [Re: AreoZephin]
    #3761482 - 02/10/05 11:38 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I have never been shown to be wrong.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Hm. [Re: trendal]
    #3761494 - 02/10/05 11:40 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

That's pretty cool, trendal. I hadn't heard that.

BTW, Aero, would you go about trying to design a new kind of microchip without trying to study electronics a good deal beforehand? Do you think you'd be very successful making the assumption that perhaps all those people who studied it before might not have had it right, and by starting with a fresh mind you'll be doing a better job?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Hm. [Re: Phluck]
    #3761510 - 02/10/05 11:43 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Sure, duck my question...  :mad:


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Re: Hm. [Re: Swami]
    #3761533 - 02/10/05 11:48 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

It's believed to have evovled over time from Phoenecian soup, which originated around 900bc :P

How's that?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Hm. [Re: Phluck]
    #3761541 - 02/10/05 11:51 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Don't bother me, I'm busy pouting.  :ooo:


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OfflineAreoZephin
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Re: Hm. [Re: trendal]
    #3761897 - 02/10/05 01:00 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
There is also strong evidence that amino acids and other organic compounds exist in comets. An experiment was performed to see if these compounds could withstand the force of a comet impacting the Earth. What they found was that most of the compounds WOULDN'T survive the impact...but instead combine into even larger amino acids, a few steps closer to proteins themselves.




Now that's bad ass :P

And no Phluck because it's complex and yes that would take a lot of knowledge because of it's complexity.


--------------------
The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so.

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Re: Hm. [Re: AreoZephin]
    #3762349 - 02/10/05 02:34 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

And no Phluck because it's complex and yes that would take a lot of knowledge because of it's complexity.


And biology isn't complex?

You do realize that the science backing up evolution and genetics is just as complex, don't you? The basics of natural selection aren't that hard to understand (as long as you actually try and are willing to read a little bit), but to claim that you are qualified to invent new theories about biology without doing any research, but aren't qualified to invent ideas about electronics without research makes no sense at all.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

Edited by Phluck (02/10/05 02:39 PM)

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Hm. [Re: Phluck]
    #3762491 - 02/10/05 03:00 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

"If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?"
-- Albert Einstein

:grin:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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OfflineAreoZephin
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Re: Hm. [Re: Phluck]
    #3763343 - 02/10/05 05:52 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
And no Phluck because it's complex and yes that would take a lot of knowledge because of it's complexity.


And biology isn't complex?

You do realize that the science backing up evolution and genetics is just as complex, don't you? The basics of natural selection aren't that hard to understand (as long as you actually try and are willing to read a little bit), but to claim that you are qualified to invent new theories about biology without doing any research, but aren't qualified to invent ideas about electronics without research makes no sense at all.




But where are you getting me saying I don't think it's complex? Just because I'm to lazy to read 30 feet of reading on a 1027x768 monitor of 4 web pages, I'm not saying it's complex nor was I ever implying it wasn't. Just because I was sticking to my theory? All I did was state my theory, but I never said it wasn't complex or complex. And what the hell, I claimed I was "qualified"? I guess, thanks for the compliment or whatever. What is philosophy again? A set of ideas or beliefs relating to a particular field or activity? A system of values by which one lives? And I like doing that rather than believe the rest of the world if it was the rest of the world against my own, even if it was logical there is always still another logical way that can just be as logical. Because I choose not to do what everyone else does to be the same, and if it's complexity is as complex, I will definitely not believe what they do, but for my beliefs.

Why can God not create a reality and add the planet with it's moisture and rocks and then sit back and watch it evolve?

Why can't I create a computer with intelligence who took on himself the realization of it's own self being, and watch it evolve? Why would I need to create more?

God+Evolution=this

Or

Evolution+Evolution=God+Evolution=this

Why can't those two be logical? And God, or the higher being still play a role in it's nature of therein?


--------------------
The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so.

Edited by AreoZephin (02/10/05 05:54 PM)

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