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OfflinePsiloman
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: Koala Koolio]
    #4613205 - 09/02/05 06:20 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:


I don't believe any cacti should be illegal. Nor do I believe many other plants and fungi should be.




I believe everyone agrees with you my friend,hence we are members of the Ethnobotanical Garden. Growing plants is a passion.Growing "special" plants that possess CNS affecting qualities of the highest caliber (and allow me to say of the most interesting quality) such as those containing entheogens,is more of a passion a fixation.And to say that they arent beautifull? Such beauty in those plants,im eagerly waiting my Pachanoi to flower and then take text book quality pictures of its blossoms!

Personally,i believe that each grower of those plants ,each person interested in them should try to put its pebble against the criminalisation of those lifeforms (well could one techically propose homo sapiens as a DMT containing species and watch legislation chaos unfold?). I grow lots of legal plants (due to law threatening to take my life away in many ways if i do otherwise) and urge other people to do so.

My thought is : One must have a source to start cultivating those plants. Pachanoi,anandenanthera species,argyreia nervosa, all have to come from somewhere,they dont magically appear in our hands. But how can we balance the availability of such sources ,such as a ethnobotanical supplier that quite upfront all the species he sells are psychoactive (and thus can be in legal danger), with an ethical ethnobotanical market that will have a viable future so people will continue growing these plants (and why not experiencing them,if they choose so taking into account the responsibility arising from such use)?

That is the trick question! Of course, vendors must make some money they are not doing it "just because" ,although there are many of them which with their offers make you understand that they want you to spread those plants and grow them (such as a lot of gifts in every order,and much more of the product that you initially asked for).And of course,some people will ask to experience those plants,hence the popularity of dried,even powdered speciments which almost approach the "just add water" principle.

What can we ,as concerned growers or afficionados of those plants, do to ensure the best propable future for those plants?

Any viable ideas ,anyone?


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OfflineInjectTruth
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: Psiloman]
    #4635916 - 09/09/05 12:09 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

To: comments@salviasupply.com




Subject: Are you serious?




Date: Thu 09/08/05 08:41 PM



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Let me say thank you in advance for your help getting Salvia placed on Schedule I of the Controlled Substances Act.

I have seldom seen a more deplorable showing of greed and ignorance. Are you not aware that Salvia is being watched by the DEA, and is mentioned in their periodical, The Microgram? Are you not aware that selling Hawaiian Woodrose seeds AS DRUGS is as illegal as selling certain prescriptions on the black market, and selling Peruvian Torch is as illegal as selling HEROIN? The "Dealer" Package? I can't believe I even have to explain this to anyone.

If you had half as much respect for these plants as your "Mexican of proper bloodline", you wouldnt be hocking them in "mind bender" or "party package" assortments for 100x the cost. Do you really think Amanita Muscaria is a cure for "boredom"? "Recently, Salvia d. has become very popular in the modernized world as a psychedelic to replace more dangerous and illegal substances such as DMT and LSD." LSD and DMT, dangerous? Who's side are you on? DMT is already in every human being, and LSD is one of the most NON TOXIC substances known to man. And if DMT is so dangerous, why do you sell it in the form of ayahuasca?

I am aware that many other sites sell these same items, however they dont sell them TO CONSUME!!! Not only do you EXPLICITLY advertise them as for consumption, you have VIDEOS OF STUPID COLLEGE KIDS GOING , "OH MY GOD! I CANT FUCKING BELIEVE IT, IM FUCKING TRIPPIN DEWD!"

Way to go, chief.


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Offlinestvip
Strange stranger
Registered: 03/21/05
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Loc: Israel
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: InjectTruth]
    #4636451 - 09/09/05 02:05 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

In the case of divinorum, I don't believe it matters much how it is marketed, and whether or not human consumption is implied, except that products intended for human consumption are supposed to be regulated by the FDA. But that's a different topic, and I would actually welcome FDA inspections of the plant material sold by various vendors. The DEA is fully aware that every divinorum product sold is sold for human consumption; if it were illegal, that disclaimer would not fool them (it would make a difference if prosecutions were pressed, but then the risk lies with the vendor for such labeling and advertisements). Since it is legal, there's no reason, except the FDA liability (in the US, anyhow - probably similar laws with equivalent agencies worldwide), for vendors not to suggest human consumption. I highly doubt it makes a difference for lawmakers. This is quite distinct from the case of mescaline bearing cacti "incense".
Labeling issue aside, the method of advertisement does do a disservice to the legality of divinorum, as it is likely to attract negative media attention, as well as encourage improper use.

Anyhow, a dire, disgusting update: there are rumors that "research chemicals" suppliers are about to make 7-hydroxymitragynine commercially available. This would be the first MOR agonist easily available since the Analogue Law, and a rather potent one at that (several times the potency of morphine, with far better oral bioavailability). Whereas the DEA Microgram mentioned kratom almost favorably, this will surely rapidly lead to Mitragyna speciosa and its alkaloids being outlawed.


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OfflinePsiloman
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: stvip]
    #4637971 - 09/09/05 03:16 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Since it is legal, there's no reason, except the FDA liability (in the US, anyhow - probably similar laws with equivalent agencies worldwide), for vendors not to suggest human consumption.




Quote:

Anyhow, a dire, disgusting update: there are rumors that "research chemicals" suppliers are about to make 7-hydroxymitragynine commercially available. This would be the first MOR agonist easily available since the Analogue Law, and a rather potent one at that (several times the potency of morphine, with far better oral bioavailability). Whereas the DEA Microgram mentioned kratom almost favorably, this will surely rapidly lead to Mitragyna speciosa and its alkaloids being outlawed.




I hear you and what you say is true.I always though am intrigued by how many people/vendors like to push it to the limits.

Let me bring out the Dog and Fence analogy.

We have a dog (users/vendors) on a field with a fence (law) at 5 meters from the doghouse and its 1 metre tall. This is done to contain to dog ad to secure it in this space.It certainly is up to the person putting the fence (Law Agencies) how close to the dog he/she is gonna put it and how tall its gonna be.BUT...the silly dog keeps trying to use all the 5 metres of radius ,not only that its climbing ON the fence up to its one metre and sticking its paws out of the fence. Yes,this could be a Good reason for the Fence putter to put it to 3 metres space and raise it to 2 metres high.And i betcha the dog will try AGAIN climbing the fence not learning from past mistakes and the fence putter is gonna move the fence to 1 metre from the dog and make it 5 metres tall.And the dog,if given the chance will continue its mistake ,as if asking to be put on a cage for a maximum confinment.

Thats more or less what happens...Sometimes vendors are given 3 metres of freedom and they manicly try to exploit it down to the last,furthest picometer! Give em free ephedra and they will pull out all kinds of party pills with it! Give em whatever loose laws and they wont just try to go through the "legislation window" they will tear it down trying to fit an elephant through it!

So...What could one done? If we say that the dog is the vendors wouldnt it be wise in the first case to put a leash around it so it naturally confines it to 4 metres ,to be sure that it wont go jumping up and down on the fence provoking the fence putter?

We have the money they are after,we are the ones that have the leash,now lets put an end to this rabbies(ish).


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InvisiblePsilostylin
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: Psiloman]
    #4638807 - 09/09/05 06:41 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

it's only a matter of time before all sacred ethnogens are a jailed memory. and yes it is the childish and the greedy that are paving this road. the pimping of these substances needs to be significantly reduced. do you really need a video to show you how to light a bowl? and what makes you think you respond the same as the morons in these videos? what i saw when i watched these videos was a very disrespectful marketing technique.... "this stuff really does Fuck you up! lokk how crazy it is!! whoa!" this is flat out disgusting. people are using these sacred treasures with the mentality of a cocaine junky. research and take a look at how the native americans used these substances. there is a great difference. if you can't comprehend this difference, you have no buisness even considering using such substances. take peyote for example, the natives considered this to be the most magnificent of all the world's gifts. they regarded the buttons of the peyote cactus as 'The Flesh of God.' they held these tiny cactus buttons with the same respect a catholic would the Eucarist (sp.?). that is a massive difference to a young white boy looking to get stoned on a saturday night. i have always shook my head at the filthy representation of these beautiful substances... wheter it be mimosa hostilis, psilocybin mushrooms, san pedro cactus and even marijuana. if you really have an interest in using san pedro cactus, read some books. do some research as to how it should be used to better you're life, not as a means to escape it. the beauty of the san pedro cactus needs to stop being raped by the ignorent, the childish, and the greedy. it was not put here for this reason. if you can't even make the sacrafice of offering your time in a proper preparation and need a quick form of "fuck me up" then you are in no way mature enough to experience such greatness. you will gain no enlightenment from your Creator if you endanger one of the greatest gifts He has ever bestowed upon you. cut out the bratty behavior and check the situation... if you keep up the abuse then this gift will no longer be.


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OfflineOpenminded
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: Psilostylin]
    #4639126 - 09/09/05 08:05 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I really think that anyone who possibly can should plan a few years in advance and grow their own. This means everyone in CA and other nice sunny places.
Even if you don't have a garden of your own that you can use, you can get two feet of pedro, cut it into 2-3" sections, let them heal and form roots at home, and then plant them out somewhere. I'm sure everyone with the right climate could find somewhere suitable if they looked around for a bit. In a few years you could have MASSES growing, more than enough for personal use.
And if you have your own place and are willing to risk it, it would be easy to become self-sufficient in peyote in three years.
I know this isn't going to do any good about bad vendors, but at least you won't have to use them :wink:.


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InvisibleKoala Koolio
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: Openminded]
    #4639190 - 09/09/05 08:22 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I can't imagine just planting it "somewhere" would work too well.

That'd likely just get it snatched by some kid, for a quick snack. As one kid just demonstrated in the psychedellic experience forum (or whatever it is, the top sub-section), many people have no shame in stealing it right out of someone's yard even.

As far as "A cactus, a cactus cutting, a cactus bud, a cactus skin, a cactus root, is still just a cactus. "

Yes, this is true. But I've seen dried skins in microgram at least twice. I've seen live plants zero times. Perhaps they're in there somewhere, but I've never seen them.


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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: Psilostylin]
    #4648717 - 09/12/05 02:03 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Psilostylin said:
it's only a matter of time before all sacred ethnogens are a jailed memory. and yes it is the childish and the greedy that are paving this road. the pimping of these substances needs to be significantly reduced. do you really need a video to show you how to light a bowl?  and what makes you think you respond the same as the morons in these videos? what i saw when i watched these videos was a very disrespectful marketing technique.... "this stuff really does Fuck you up! lokk how crazy it is!! whoa!" this is flat out disgusting. people are using these sacred treasures with the mentality of a cocaine junky. research and take a look at how the native americans used these substances. there is a great difference. if you can't comprehend this difference, you have no buisness even considering using such substances. take peyote for example, the natives considered this to be the most magnificent of all the world's gifts. they regarded the buttons of the peyote cactus as 'The Flesh of God.' they held these tiny cactus buttons with the same respect a catholic would the Eucarist (sp.?). that is a massive difference to a young white boy looking to get stoned on a saturday night. i have always shook my head at the filthy representation of these beautiful substances... wheter it be mimosa hostilis, psilocybin mushrooms, san pedro cactus and even marijuana. if you really have an interest in using san pedro cactus, read some books. do some research as to how it should be used to better you're life, not as a means to escape it. the beauty of the san pedro cactus needs to stop being raped by the ignorent, the childish, and the greedy. it was not put here for this reason. if you can't even make the sacrafice of offering your time in a proper preparation and need a quick form of "fuck me up" then you are in no way mature enough to experience such greatness. you will gain no enlightenment from your Creator if you endanger one of the greatest gifts He has ever bestowed upon you. cut out the bratty behavior and check the situation... if you keep up the abuse then this gift will no longer be.



Even here at a place of supposedly open mindedness we have people insisting that everyone have the same views and spiritual beliefs. :rolleyes: :thumbdown:


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OfflinePsiloman
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: Ekstaza]
    #4649208 - 09/12/05 05:38 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Let aside spiritual beliefs for a moment.

Do you think that the majority of the "i wanna be continuously fucked up,weekends is a drug fuckfest for me" crowd would ,if having knowledge of those e-shops, use them all the time compared to the majority of the people that think that spiritual and/or psychological work is capable with them?

Its not a prerequisite having the same beliefs,or forcing one to use the spiritually. Logical thought though with a "view on the future of now semilegal psychoactives" is something easily blinded by the passion of "lets get high" .That is not to mean that some "spiritual" or "self analysis" people might not abuse the ease of finding those items online.Its just a matter of perspective.

For example if i ,for whatever reasons (spiritual,psychological whatever) utilise psychoactives rarely because thats how i taught myself to be ,i am going to cause less of an "order havoc" on those shops,attract less custom  attention,attract less post office attention and receive significantly less "suspicious packages" that lets say DEA could intercept than someone that HAS TO trip every weekend,or someone that HAS TO smoke,eat,snort,drink anything psychoactive for the day to be worth while. And SIMPLY BY RULE OF PROPABILITY and NOTHING ELSE ,chances are far less that someone is going to pull me over and find X amounts of Y types of drug in my car if i do it once a year than someone whose car/house/everything is "full of drugs".

So we may bring it down to having to do nothing with "gettingfuckedup" use,nothing with "spiritual" use,nothing with ala Stanislav Groff "Self psychoanalysis" use but with mentality of use and/or shortsightness of some individuals.

Dont get me wrong,but isnt a "recreational user" that lives a "drug lifestyle" more prone to continuous orders from those shops,especially preffering "easy forms" (he just wants the drug,and cactus powder is super easy!) that other kind of users?


No offence to anyone,but apparently DEA has noticed the trend ,and the shops...well...they dont seem to give a fuck :laugh:


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Offlinestvip
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Registered: 03/21/05
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: Psiloman]
    #4649311 - 09/12/05 09:26 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Everytime you take a walk (with your dog on leash, alive or as a carcass), there's a chance a car will have to swerve to avoid hitting you, causing an accident. By the simple law of probability, the more you ambulate outside, the more you endanger innocent drivers. Conclusion: avoid walking. People have the intrinsic right to ingest mescaline, despite the laws of the moment in most countries (which usually contradict these same countries' various charters). There's no reason to believe selling "incense" will lead to legislation against the plants themselves. At most, measures will be taken against the vendors, possibly (but not probably) against customers. (comparisons to Psilocybe mushrooms in the UK are frivolous, the situation is very different) Such action, if it will occur, will probably be the result of someone doing something stupid while under the influence of mescaline (and all the other alkaloids and non-alkaloidal compounds present in cacti), in a manner that catches media attention. Lastly, if a vendor is operating outside the US, what right do US citizens have to tell them how to run their business due to their own single country's drug laws?
All that said, I still dislike the practice, since the "ethnobotanical" community should attract as little attention as possible to itself right now. Later, when there are more diversity, sources, organization (the item most direly lacking right now) and potency of substances, we can make more noise.


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Offlinecrusher101
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: stvip]
    #4654638 - 09/13/05 01:30 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

im... kinda confused here. if you dont like vendors doing that then why does shroomery support them. psycoactive herbs sells torch and most other cacti dried...


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OfflinePsiloman
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: crusher101]
    #4656153 - 09/13/05 07:15 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

:laugh:

Exaxtly :laugh:

Short answer : Noone is immune to monetary benefits.

Long answer: I will let a mod fill this in :laugh:


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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: InjectTruth]
    #7448182 - 09/24/07 05:53 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

"LSD is one of the most NON TOXIC substances known to man."

I have to disagree with this, well atleast in wot u regard as in toxic. If u mean as in it could kill u, then maybe. But on how it could affect u.

There are lots of "casualties" of psychedelics and other drugs.

1 majour thing i heard of where i live, that a dealer of lsd realised that he was about to be busted, rather than get cought with his sheets his blotters consumed the entire lot before he had his door busted down.

Ever since he has been permantly tripping. This was several years ago.

there is not enough research into alot of drugs to really determine exactly wot toxic properties they may or maynot possess.

I really believe that drugs that are proved to have no physical dependance be legilised, but under strict control.

However this could be very hard, as even with alcohol and nicotine. Its still proving very hard to enforce.

As a first step, i would still thing that taking drugs of the black market would a great step, even if it cost just a little bit more.

I occasionaly like E, but hate how sometimes u get some that give wot u expect of E, (general well being, ephoria, everything great) then u can get something similar but more wired (last time i new i had definatly had some form m) but it was very wired and at some point i thoiught i was so high i would pass out and i dint sleep for over 24 hours after4 taking them.

If u got them from a manufacturer that was under strict control then atleast u were guarenteed that u got the same everytime and it wasnt something that mimiced wot the real thing was.

On a side note i tried to legal version (bzp tmtfp) and they were horrible, felt ill for 2 hours, then got mild effects and had the worst hangover ever the next day. (1 produced almost no effects, 2 produced ilness for 2 hours and a few hours of miled real pill and horrible next day)


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Offlineroyer
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: veda_sticks]
    #7448301 - 09/24/07 06:36 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

you just brought back a thread that has been dead for 2 years to say you disagree


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OfflineDr. uarewotueat
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: royer]
    #7448330 - 09/24/07 06:48 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

lol and wot the hell does it have to do with vendors who sell dried pedro skins...

:congrats:


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Offlineblazed123
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #7448411 - 09/24/07 07:17 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Lol. I remember when this thread was new. You found this at the bottom where it says "related threads," didn't you?


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Offline2859558484
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: blazed123]
    #7448771 - 09/24/07 09:00 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

mj was such a douchebag


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Offlineimplee
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: 2859558484]
    #7450067 - 09/25/07 02:08 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

:killerrabbit:


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InvisiblePsilobuds



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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: veda_sticks]
    #7450129 - 09/25/07 02:35 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

veda_sticks said:

1 majour thing i heard of where i live, that a dealer of lsd realised that he was about to be busted, rather than get cought with his sheets his blotters consumed the entire lot before he had his door busted down.





*cough cough* Bullshit *cough cough*


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OfflineTurntableJunky
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: stvip]
    #7450132 - 09/25/07 02:36 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Do you know you just bumped a 2 year old thread?


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