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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: infamous]
    #3755680 - 02/09/05 01:11 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

yeah, thats a brilliant idea

:rolleyes:


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InvisibleEonTan
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: mjshroomer]
    #3758133 - 02/09/05 09:15 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

hypocrites

Cactus with mescaline are illegal in any form if they are being bought, sold, or possesed for the intent of consumption.

Stop helping the Government draw rediculous lines in the sand as to what is or isn't ok.

INTENT is everything in the eyes of the law.

If these companies are breaking the law they will get caught. If the governmnet can prove that you collect spores that get sold to vendors who sell spores to individuals who grow them and consume the shrooms you might get arrested too. For conspiracy to manufacture and distibute a controlled substance. GET IT.



So quite preaching and get back to collecting. My boss expects results. J/K :tongue:


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: EonTan]
    #3759377 - 02/10/05 12:48 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

EonTan said
Quote:

Cactus with mescaline are illegal in any form if they are being bought, sold, or possesed for the intent of consumption.




Wrong. Mescaline is a controlled substance. IT is the mescaline which is illegal. Not the cactus.

Just as it is the psilocine/psilocybine and related compounds that is illegal. But they will bust you for growing shrooms. You cannot however, sell spores with growing instructions. That was what got PF busted , even though the charges were for manufacturing psilocine/psilocybine.

by the way, PF justr authorized me to publish his PF tek in my alredy best selling Mushroomc ultivation History Cd-RoM

and have a shroomy day

And as for the spores. Spores are not illegal. If such was the case thenme, Pul Stamets, and everyone else who wrote a book on picking and identifying psilocybian mushrooms would also be liable to busts and prosecutions.

My book Magic mushrooms of the PNW is the oldest selling mushroom guide for magic mushrooms on the market. It was pubished in 1976 and has been sold every year since. Close to 19 years. If it were not for me and many others who wrote these guides, you would not be able to know what the frig they looked like.

You need to lighten up and not be negative about a real warning about something that could be happening real soon and then maybe not according to you. Adn I am sure they monitor these sites regularly although they do not hassle anyone except when they feel i like it.

Alan Shumaker is a good example. He had DEA permits to import Psychotria viridis leaves and the bark of Banisteriopsis caapi (Ayahuasca, yage, Caapi). He made many shipments to the USA and sold them all over. Then two years ago, the DEA confiscated a whole shipload and charged him with importing schedule one drugs into the USA.

They can do what ever they want.

mj.

I sent letters of this to over 2 dozen sites which sell skins and such amd some ogf trhem wrote me back abotu the matter. Some ogf those letters are posted at thenook.org.

If you need to go there and read them.

mj


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Offlineel_duderino
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: mjshroomer]
    #3760236 - 02/10/05 04:26 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

just curious.. SAn Pedro legal, Peyote -?? Is it legal or illegal? Hehe another thing i find funny is that the chemical itself is illegal to posess. Wouldnt posessing cacti that possess mescaline then also be illegal? Obviously not in the case of San Pedro.

BTW everyone drill a hole into your brain to get that little small gland called the pineal out or else your breaking the law! Im not sure if the Dimitry just sits there though(??). Your whole body might be in possession of a controlled substance.


--------------------
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OfflinePsiloman
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: el_duderino]
    #3760802 - 02/10/05 10:06 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

well ,i am all up for salvia being given "hand by hand" as cuttings.Unluckyly i am not too fond of "dealers" in the sense that there are a lot of shady characters in the..."dealerhood".Most of them are not known for they knowledge or the quality of their product.They are known just because they sell something illegal,thus unobtainable by other means...

A viable solution: Lets start scaring the Dried Skin guys. They dont want to end up in jail,do they?

As for as the salvia thing oges ,i am mainly ok with it since salvinorin is not a controlled substance at this time.Unfortunatelly though some websityes take advantage of it and are simply asking for trouble (i am speaking about a certain vendor making videos of people smoking salvia as a promotional tool...)


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: el_duderino]
    #3761054 - 02/10/05 11:39 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

el_duderino said:
just curious.. SAn Pedro legal, Peyote -?? Is it legal or illegal? Hehe another thing i find funny is that the chemical itself is illegal to posess. Wouldnt posessing cacti that possess mescaline then also be illegal?




therein is where peyote is the exception to the rule, peyote it's self was
outlawed with the help of the BIA (Bureau of Indian Affairs, Dept. of the Interior)
it was done as yet another means to control the indians after they were herded to the
reservations, since peyote was a religious sacrament for some of the tribes of the
southern plains it made sense to them to outlaw it along with their religious rites


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OfflineUnenlightenedOne
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #3761350 - 02/10/05 01:10 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

In wisconsin the native american church is allowed to use peyote for religious purposes and rites.


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InvisibleEonTan
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: mjshroomer]
    #3761503 - 02/10/05 01:42 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Get over yourself. You did not bring Magic mushrooms to the awarness of interested minds in the modern world. I know who you are and what you have written and contributed, I just don't like the hypocrisy I am seeing here in this thread.

A cactus, a cactus cutting, a cactus bud, a cactus skin, a cactus root, is still just a cactus. If the cactus itself is not illegal, then none of it's parts are except the mescaline itself. Unless these sites are selling extracted mescaline, they are not doing anything really different from the nursery selling cuttings, or seeds. Only if you can prove that there INTENT was to Sell the Drug inside the skins. Since their disclaimer is they are for incense and not consumption, I don't see how there is a difference.

You are making the differentiation. You are implying that dried skins are mescaline, and cactus plants are not. You are. Both contain mescaline, both are intended for uses other then drug consumption, yet you are making the assumption one is and one is not going to lead to the illegality of San pedro cactus.

There is a big difference between selling mescaline tea for consumptiopn and selling cactus skins for incense.

As far as the feds go you are right, they will do what ever they want. They will arrest the guy selling grafted san pedro rootstocks if they want, but guess what you aren't here preaching the dangers of doing that. You have focused on dried skins as the end all to legal cactus possesion, when in reality it is not the form it takes or is sold in that will make the cactus illegal, it is the desires of the powers at be that will determine when they want to make it illegal.

There are alternative rootstocks for grafting onto. Herbariums can get permits to house specimens if they decide to make it illegal at any time. They don't bust herbariums now for housing specimens of Illegal mushrooms, do they? INTENT!!!

Paul stamets was working under a license if he was growing mushrooms, other wise he would have gone to jail if they chose to bust him. Picking mushrooms for depositing in herbariums is not illegal, it only becomes illegal if they choose to prosecute you for possesion of a controlled substance.
Spores are not the only determining factor for mushroom taxonomy, and you have to posses the mushrooms to do the rest of the taxonomic characteristics. Which is illegal without a license, in theory.

If you are working with Psilocybin containing mushrooms without a license you can be busted, regardless of wether you are picking them for taxonomic reasons, or for consumption. Convicted is another story.

You have idiots in this thread threatening to call the cops. If you can't see something wrong with that, then I just don't know about you or the saftey of this site and it's members.

PF made it possible for KIDS to grow shrooms without any real expense in money or time, or knowledge accumulation. He is looked at, at this site, and throughout the OMC as a GOD. No one says damn what kind of heat is that going to bring on those that were quietly going about there mushroom picking, cultivation before the PF TEK. What about the shroomery itself and like sites on the internet? What effect can they have on the spore industry in the long run. Besides creating a market for spore sales NOW, they could potentially shine to much light on the whole game, and casue the spores to be illegal. Then you would need a license to even posses the spores.

Are you broadcasting WARNINGS on that?

I am not negative I have been nothing but positive since coming to this community years ago. I just get tired of the DRAMA sometimes. I really get tired of the HYPOCRISY.

This entire site is walking a fine line, and all parties associated with it, so for respected members here to start pointing fingers just doesn't make sense to me.

Sorry
Have a shroomy day.


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: EonTan]
    #3762945 - 02/10/05 06:42 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

EonTan said
Quote:

You did not bring Magic mushrooms to the awarness of interested minds in the modern world.




No, R. Gordon Wasson, Richard Schultes, Blas Pablo Reko, Albert Hofmann and Roger Heim did and then that was followed by Timothy Leary, Andrew Weil, Steven Pollock and Jonathan Ott in their writings of the shrooms in the early 1970s, and then it was Andrew Weil, who, through his writings for the Harvard Crimson, alerted the board of regents at harvard to become aware of Leary's drug activities, eventually leading to the firing of Leary and Richard Alpert from Harvard for their failure to attend their classes and for failing to stop giving drugs to undergraduate students.

Leonard Enos wrote the first major pamphlet (1000 Copies) in the early 1970s for identifying psilocybe species in the PNW of the USA, using information taken from Rolf Singer and Alexander H. Smith's short psilocybe monograph published in Mycologia vol 50 in 1958. Enos 1973 book sold one thousand copies in the PNW in the early 1970s.

My first edition of magic mushrooms (2,000 books) sold out in less than months in 1976 and was distributed by Homestead Book Co. And it was my spores and those fo bob harris which made Homestead the longest seller of spores in High Times wiht a full page ad. They are still selling spores.

And then the 2nd edition of MMOTPNW sold ten thousand copies by the fall of 1978.

Then published the Safe-Pik shroom id Poster seen in the image here with me and R. Gordon Wason In San Francisco in 1978:

After the poster (1,000 copies), Cards (1,000 sets) and the book (3,000 copies sold)

And as I noted my nagic Mushrooms of the PNW is still in print and selling well.

In fact It has sold mroe than 100,000 copies in less than 29 years. It has out sold more copies than Paul's Psilocybe mushrooms and their Allies (20,000 copies), and his Psilocybine Mushrooms of the World (10,000 copies) of his first printing and first editions are still for a sale at amazon and have not sold out the first printing run yet.

As for PF, Billy is a friend of mine and just gave me exclusive rights to post his PF tek in my Mushroom Cultivation History CD-ROM. Of course his methords were all improvements of:
Kneebone, L. R. 1960. Methods for Production of Certain Hallucinogenic Agarics. Abstracts Dev. Ind. Micro. Vol. 1: 109.
Kneebones paper on agaricus cultivation was incorporated into the PF tek and PF created spore syringes which were already in use for years by commercial shroom growers. PF also expounded on the cultivation works of Steven H. Pollock's cultivation methods and those of Jeremy Bigwood and Jonathan Ott who in their 1978 book published an artickle with step-by-step photos of simple cultivation using a syringe. This appeared in the book, "Teonan?catl; hHllucinogenic Mushrooms of North America (The proceedings of the Hallucinogens and Shamanism in Native American Life Conference)".



Who published the method before PF published the spore syringe method in his tek which became the signiture of the PF tek.

Here is a picture from that publication"e


And I have known PF since the mid 1970s. He visited my home on a few ocassions.

And I also have been one who has provided more than a million spore prints to the worldwide-spore market during the last 30 years.

Paul Stamets once introduced me at a conference as the man who picked more mushrooms than anyone he has ever known.

I have always, all of my shrooming life, always talked openly everywhere about the mushrooms and other drugts. and sometimes people get paranoid of the way i talk about openly about such things. Well this is me and who I am and I have been that way and am not about to change. What I do has never gotten anyone in trouble and other peoples paranoia is not my paranoia. I have none. I am not ashamed of what i do or what i say And I would die for my right to do what I do. I believe in myself and I will stick up for those rights unitl i am dead and gone.

If something makes you feel good, hiding it is very hypocritical to a point.

Caution is fine, but no pearanoia for something that makes me feel good and shrooms are something I have enjoyed doing all of my life and being myself is me.

This cacti thing is for real. They are looking at many plant substances right now. AS you knon, every year someone creates a new drug or every decade a new drug becomes popular.

Salvia is slowly be made illegtal in many states.

Adn while most police do not know what cacti may look like. That does not mean they won't bust you for them.

mj
mj


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OfflinePsiloman
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: mjshroomer]
    #3763362 - 02/10/05 07:56 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

It was said :

"A cactus, a cactus cutting, a cactus bud, a cactus skin, a cactus root, is still just a cactus. If the cactus itself is not illegal, then none of it's parts are except the mescaline itself. Unless these sites are selling extracted mescaline, they are not doing anything really different from the nursery selling cuttings, or seeds. Only if you can prove that there INTENT was to Sell the Drug inside the skins. Since their disclaimer is they are for incense and not consumption, I don't see how there is a difference."

Yes,from a point of view this is right. How come though all those "incenses" in the ethnobotanic stores are psychoactive if ingested or smoked? Well, if indeed the shroomery community and teenagers in here know that those incenses are..."incenses" that ARE psychoactive ,then i cant help but mention the obvious : DEA also knows about it. This whole "intent" and "incense" thing is just a "window" in the legislation that DEA is aware of and if this agency wants it they can close it once and forall by passing a simple law such as "Any plant,funghi,biological material,extract or preperation that contains any controlled susbtance is deemed illegal no matter what the intent of supply or possesion is and the penalty is the same that the controlled substance carries"

Finito la Musica ,Passato la Fiesta!
(Well at least we can TRY not to taunt the DEA by making san pedro available in a more "ready to use" form...Maybe what keeps san pedro popularity relatively low is all this goo and peeling that one has to go through...)

but as you said

"As far as the feds go you are right, they will do what ever they want. "

Personally i do not condone calling the cops on these vendors.JUst scaring them a bit if they do not listen to reason....

Guys,many plants are going to get banned and deemed explicitly illegal.At least we can try to slow it down.While slowing it down try to plant those beauties in our garden and keep a viable stock arounde because...

NEWSFLASH!!!!!

Your favorite "ethnovendor"/smartshop/"incence seller" is not going to be around for ever....Guess who is plotting their downfall

(tip: It starts with a D ,the second letter could be E, and the last is A)


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InvisibleShroomOmatic
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: spores]
    #3763483 - 02/10/05 08:16 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Not to much longer before the gov takes away all of your stuff..


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OfflinePsilocybeingzz
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: biglo]
    #3764958 - 02/11/05 02:47 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

"It's not like the police can identify every "illegal" plant on the planet, we just need to privately cultivate and spread such plants to preserve them. The Indians of South America and Mexico preserved this information for generations under Spanish rule, and so must we, and hope for a time when people become more sensible. Till then we must preserve and fight for change."
:thumbup:
A very good point(hell your whole post was good :wink: )


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OfflineFluxburn
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #4605919 - 08/31/05 11:23 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

eBay is located in CA. I remember when the search word LOPHORIA would bring up tons of stuff on ebay. I guess ebay found out the LOPHORIA was illegal in CA so they banned the word LOPHORIA. This happened last year sometime, the removal of the search in the US at least. Someone could easily bring it to ebays attention that people are selling a prepared form of a schedule one drug, since many idiots are selling cactus powder on ebay.


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Offlinewang_chung00
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: Fluxburn]
    #4605924 - 08/31/05 11:24 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

lophophora?


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InvisiblePsychoslut
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: mjshroomer]
    #4606028 - 08/31/05 11:43 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I uderstand your point mj. But since when did laws stop any of us from doing anything :grin:?


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[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


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InvisibleKoala Koolio
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: Psychoslut]
    #4606231 - 09/01/05 12:18 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

True, but why escalate it so quickly?

"The Indians of South America and Mexico preserved this information for generations under Spanish rule, and so must we, and hope for a time when people become more sensible. Till then we must preserve and fight for change."

We'll be better able to preserve it as we all begin to grow it, whatever your purpose. Ordering dried stuff from peru, where it's harvested from the wild in bulk, will surely turn people on, but not spread the plant for when the dreaded day comes.


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: mjshroomer]
    #4607228 - 09/01/05 08:41 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

provided more than a million spore prints to the worldwide-spore market during the last 30 years.




I think barely 1 in 100 who read that realized what this means to the movement. Perhaps you yourself don't even fully realize it.
Bless you :heart:

About the cacti, you're absolutely right.

You are legally allowed to own and walk a dog. The moment that dog dies it becomes a cadaver, legally. You are not allowed to drag a cadaver through the streets.
Legally it is not a dog anymore when it has died.

You might get away with growing beautiful poppies. The moment the poppyheads are harvested and put in a vase they become a substance containing morphine. That is contraversial but if you harvest Opium you are definately and to all courts crossing the line.

A cactus is a cactus. But if you dry it and crumble it up you have got "a substance containing mescaline".


Damn, people :mad: A San Pedro grows easily from seed. It doubles in mass every year. You can get away with neglecting it for MONTHS and it will probably be OK. In a few years every trip you make can be a kosher dose of this fine entheogen, grown in your livingroom.
How hard can it be?

But then again this is the Garden Forum, so I'm preaching to the choir :wink:


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InvisibleYoung_but_cool
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: Asante]
    #4607317 - 09/01/05 10:12 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

You are legally allowed to own and walk a dog. The moment that dog dies it becomes a cadaver, legally. You are not allowed to drag a cadaver through the streets.




Haha, wonderful analogy!


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Offlinestvip
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: Young_but_cool]
    #4612715 - 09/02/05 04:07 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

The issue isn't so clear-cut. Morning Glories and Sen Pedro are also popular as ornamental plants. Outlawing the plants themselves is likely to cause much public backlash, and would be frought with difficulties in execution. Even enforcement of the illegality of the most notorious P. somniferum isn't enacted, except in extreme and obvious cases of large-scale operation. Lastly, outlawing organisms which contain illegal substances is inherently illogical. That the US and UK justice system have allowed this to occur with psilocybin bearing mushrooms is testimony to their myopia, for if this law were applied in earnest and equally, a great percentage of the animal kingdom, with the notable inclusion of possibly all mammals (including H. sapiens) would have to be illegalized. It is not a tenable general policy. A counterargument would run that neither is the rest of the current drug policies of most nations. This is true, but it has a lot to do with public aquiescence due to passionate, mendacious and effective propaganda. The public at large will view illegalization of an exotic, inedible mushroom quite differently than that of one of their more popular vine and cactus.

Ultimately, it is the media which will decide the fate of these preparations, as well as that of currently unscheduled ethnobotanicals. The DEA, even in its recent mention of kratom, seems very lenient and unalarmed about the "ethnobotanical" phenomenon (whose popularity has risen sharply due to the Internet), even in the face of an addictive mu opioid agonist. Kratom, for example, will be outlawed shortly after a major newspaper runs horror stories, preferably concerning a celebrity; probably not before that.

Lastly, I do not view it kindly that people are considering threatening international vendors over grievances of laws specific to their own country.


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InvisibleKoala Koolio
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Re: WARNING: To Vendors who Peddle Dried San Pedro Skins [Re: stvip]
    #4613042 - 09/02/05 05:33 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I don't believe any cacti should be illegal. Nor do I believe many other plants and fungi should be. But I think if the dried skins were made illegal, it would clean things up a bit. Obviously I don't want anyone getting in trouble, but it's too easy for a kid to order a kilo or two of dried skin from the internet. (And stvip who mentioned the media: Kilo, mescaline, minors, and internet are *very* bad buzz words for the media)

I think the "cracking down" of dried skin before things escalate any more could save the plant it self. So would just not selling the skins, but business is business. (believe me, I'd like nothing more than a ton of the stuff to save me a few years of killing any green friends, if I choose to participate in the substance).

It's not easy to have a cacti farm capable of producing enough to be a drug dealer. Most people wouldn't be interested. Especially with the slow growth rate. The stuff sold as incense mostly comes from 'wild' cacti in peru. It's a major source. Probably one of the only ones capable of moderatly large enthogen sales. I doubt even the larger US live pedro dealers have what icaro has access to.


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You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!


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