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OfflineLizard King
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Registered: 10/03/99
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Panaeolus subbalteatus(pics, 8/16/01)
    #373065 - 08/16/01 12:59 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

Went out to the subb field to do some picking again and figured I'd take some pics this time. So here they are......









This shows a bit of light bluing in the stem. I didn;t mess with the color, but I darkened the pic a bit because it was too bright to make out the blue(it was sunny as hell out today, hard to take pics)


LK,




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OfflineTheMagicalMushi
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Re: Panaeolus subbalteatus(pics, 8/16/01) [Re: Lizard King]
    #373079 - 08/16/01 01:32 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

Are those there mushrooms active? Because pan. subbs are supposed to grow in ontario, according to what erowid says.

"Heh heh... mule"
- Homer Simpson


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"The closest thing to a lemon around here is that lemon shaped rock... wait a minute, theres a lemon behind that rock!"
- Bart Simpson

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OfflineLizard King
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Re: Panaeolus subbalteatus(pics, 8/16/01) [Re: TheMagicalMushi]
    #373083 - 08/16/01 01:40 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

Yep, they are acive, although they vary from being weakly to moderately active(weak during hot months, moderate during cool weather) I'm sure you can find a few in Ontario, just check out rotted hay bails and horse fields, your bound to stumble across a few, they are really common mushrooms, often called the "weed mushroom" its so common.



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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: Panaeolus subbalteatus(pics, 8/16/01) [Re: Lizard King]
    #373112 - 08/16/01 02:38 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

hmm, you sure those are subbs? yes they are panaeolus, but they look a bit different, like one of the other psychoactive pans.

dans le silence du poisson-lune
plilosophait au fond des brumnes

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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Panaeolus subbalteatus(pics, 8/16/01) [Re: Mitchnast]
    #373180 - 08/16/01 04:28 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: Panaeolus subbalteatus(pics, 8/16/01) [Re: World Spirit]
    #373194 - 08/16/01 05:04 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

thanks for clearing that up. now ill clear some stuff up for you mr stranger.

there are many speceis of penaeolus that are microspopically similar to one another. i make mistakes all the time between different types of psychoactive paneolus simply because they look so similar. and each type varies in appearance. now ive been picking this speceis longer then LK and longer than you. that doesnt mean much but you have a big oppinion for a newbie who just read a book has well-known errors reguarding identifying Paneolus speceis anyway.

nobody HAS to look into it, im just saying that those mushrooms look ambiguous. oh yes. and stamets made a few mistakes in that book you used as a reference :)


dans le silence du poisson-lune
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InvisibleGumby
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Re: Panaeolus subbalteatus(pics, 8/16/01) [Re: Lizard King]
    #373201 - 08/16/01 05:19 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah LK.. what kind of camera is that? you can get some NICE upclose pics.. I'm lookin to buy a new camera.. the one you're using produces some really nice photos

Peace,
Gumbahhh


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OfflineLizard King
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Re: Panaeolus subbalteatus(pics, 8/16/01) [Re: Mitchnast]
    #373205 - 08/16/01 05:23 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

Mitch speaks the truth, Pans are quite difficult to tell apart, they really are. I still have problems, as I'm sure mitch does, correctly IDing Pans. I used to have problems telling apart the active and inactive Pans in the field, not that I made mistakes in what I picked, but I sure did bend down to pick alot more mushrooms that weren't subbs. Now I can tell with a glance if its worth my time picking.

But I do think these are subbs, or atleast most of them are. I do always find a few that look like castaneifolius and other active pan species. My guess would be that the pics above are all subbs except the third pic, which looks live it may be that "olivaceaous"sp?.


Thanks for the kind words, enter :) And don't let mitch scare you off, he just gets a bit touchy when you step on his toes. My secret you ask, well its like any other hunting, 50% of its skill, and 50% of its pure dumb luck :) Lets just say that I've put my share of mushroom hunting hours in to find what I do, and take the pics I take.

Edited by Lizard King on 08/16/01 06:30 PM.



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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Panaeolus subbalteatus(pics, 8/16/01) [Re: Mitchnast]
    #373206 - 08/16/01 05:33 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: Panaeolus subbalteatus(pics, 8/16/01) [Re: Lizard King]
    #373240 - 08/16/01 06:32 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

where the incurved margin? they dont even seem to have them as youngsters. :)
im not touchy damnit! ILL CUT YOU BITCH :)

dans le silence du poisson-lune
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OfflineLizard King
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Re: Panaeolus subbalteatus(pics, 8/16/01) [Re: Mitchnast]
    #373284 - 08/16/01 07:51 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

Heres what they look like with a little rain, when they aren't so dried and sun faded. They look like subbs to me....














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InvisibleGumby
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Re: Panaeolus subbalteatus(pics, 8/16/01) [Re: Lizard King]
    #373300 - 08/16/01 08:06 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

JEBUS! Thats a ton of shrooms... all very nice sizes too :)

Peace,
-Gumby



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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: Panaeolus subbalteatus(pics, 8/16/01) [Re: Lizard King]
    #373308 - 08/16/01 08:33 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

ok, i take it back :) if thats the same patch then its just a bit of variation on subsequent flushes, i too experience this. :) part of the reason why these bastards are so duficult to ID positively from one another.
i wish i had my DIGI back when i was getting flushes like that :)

dans le silence du poisson-lune
plilosophait au fond des brumnes

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OfflineLizard King
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Re: Panaeolus subbalteatus(pics, 8/16/01) [Re: Mitchnast]
    #373389 - 08/16/01 10:52 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

I know what you mean mitch. I was getting huge weilii harvests last year before I got my digi, then when I did, things started to slow down. Yes this is the same patch, but the later pics are from earlier this year during prime conditions. I still do suspect that I come across a few of the other Pans from time to time, some are just different looking, could be variation I supose.



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Invisiblesolidstate
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Re: Panaeolus subbalteatus(pics, 8/16/01) [Re: Lizard King]
    #373424 - 08/16/01 11:43 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

in that noble tome "mushrooms demystified", Arora mentions that subbalteatus is a "species complex", meaning a fair number of very closely related species centering around the concept of "panaeolus subbalteatus"...if you buy that, then youve probably got 4 or 5 closely related, yet unnamed species in the above pics...of course Stamets goes the other way & states that such minor differences should not delineate different species, but are due mainly to general enviroment & slight differences in substrate composition...if you buy that, then the above pics & other shrooms you mentioned are all pan subbalteatus...the splitters vs. the lumpers, your choice


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OfflineLevi7
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Re: Panaeolus subbalteatus(pics, 8/16/01) [Re: Mitchnast]
    #373631 - 08/17/01 10:10 AM (22 years, 8 months ago)

How old are you, Mitch? Also, how long have you been picking? I'm just wondering.
Killer picks, LK!
Stay cool!-Levi7.


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: Panaeolus subbalteatus(pics, 8/16/01) [Re: Levi7]
    #373720 - 08/17/01 01:35 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

you already asked me that levi7.

dans le silence du poisson-lune
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OfflineLevi7
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Re: Panaeolus subbalteatus(pics, 8/16/01) [Re: Mitchnast]
    #373904 - 08/17/01 10:56 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

I must have forgot, Mitch. It seems you have been picking for quite awhile. Being able to distinguish between many Panaeolii is a gift. Alot of them look the same to me.
Stay cool!-Levi7.


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InvisibleGumby
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Re: Panaeolus subbalteatus(pics, 8/16/01) [Re: Lizard King]
    #373923 - 08/17/01 11:55 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

Erm.. while we're on the topic of digital camers(sortta)... What kind of digital camera do you have LK and GG? Those are some VERY nice quality pictures. I'm looking to get a new digital camera, any sugestions? Also.. if you know them, what are the specs on your camera, such as megapixles, max resolution, zoom, and storage type(floppy/memorycard/cd)?

Peace out,
-Gumby

Oh yeah.. LK check you PMs :)

Edited by GumbyDude on 08/18/01 01:05 AM.


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Offlinelucid_dreamer
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Re: Panaeolus subbalteatus(pics, 8/16/01) [Re: Gumby]
    #373981 - 08/18/01 04:04 AM (22 years, 8 months ago)

Can panaeolus subbalteatus grow in cow pastures with a lot of hay, or are they mostly in horse pastures?

"ignorance is bliss to those uneducated"-311



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"ignorance is bliss to those uneducated"-311
check out this site about lucid dreams
http://www.xs4all.nl/~pasquale/TTM/2/index.html
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http://www.311music.com





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InvisibleGumby
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Re: Panaeolus subbalteatus(pics, 8/16/01) [Re: lucid_dreamer]
    #374113 - 08/18/01 11:48 AM (22 years, 8 months ago)

Yep, cow pastures too.

Peace,
-Gumby


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InvisibleGGreatOne234
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Re: Panaeolus subbalteatus(pics, 8/16/01) [Re: Gumby]
    #374214 - 08/18/01 05:36 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

Gumby i use a sony digital Mavica cam. I get about 20 pics on each 3.5" floppy disk.

As for these Pan subbs..

I believe that the subbs that have the darker rings and thicker stronger stems are the more potent of the bunch.

Also, Panaeolus subbalteatus is equal to Panaelus venenosus..probably only by microscope comparison of the spores.

I also suspect that subbs are definately much more prominently found in horse pastures. -As I have only found around a dozen of them in cow pastures here in florida. I'll have to maybe check on a few horse pastures sometime to prove this theory. But yes I have found subbs growing directly from cow manure..sometimes even growing on the same chunk of manure as the cubensis and copelandia mushrooms.

On top of that, neither Panaeolus subbalteatus or Panaeolus castaneifolius have never to my knowledge been recorded to grow in florida or Georgia. and here we are finding them..

As for the Pan casters.. The stems of those shrooms are much different from the stems of subbs. Castaneifolius stems tend to be a pretty tawny yellow near the gills, and fading into the traditional pan subb color stem near the base of their stems.

And although I have found the suspected "pan casters" growing in cow pastures, they were not growing directly from cow manure, they were found in tall pasture grass, obviously the soil underneath the grass and mushrooms must have been nutrient rich in cow manure..but they do not unless rarely grow directly from manure.
Also, it was during the month of March last year that I was finding the pan casters in well maintained residential lawns with sprinkler systems. And more likely than not, the lawns were treated with some type of manure mixture underneath the sod before it was laid down.

I would say that more than 50% of the casters showed bluing at the base of the stems. Opposed to the subbs rarely showing bluing.
Also after a few bioassays of the castaneifolius', i found them to be nearly equal to that of the Copelandia mushrooms, with the dosage being around 12 fresh casters for a trip.

As for Pan olivaceus.. That species is actually symonius with Pan castaneifolius.. and these two species most likely can only be told apart by microscopic comparison of the spores.

Now, on top of that, Panaeolus castaneifolius is not only equal to Pan olivaceus, but also has a shorter name Panaeolus castaneifolia, this is said to be its true name.
And then to add to the confusion.. Panaeolus castaneifolia is also grouped closely to Panaeolina castaneifolia.. so, where does that put us...

Oh, and after mjshromer took a look at the pictures of what i thought were castaneifolius, he proposed that the mushrooms in question could possibly be Copelandia chlorocystis (a shroom recorded to grow in the state of florida but i have no pictures or information describeing it), equal to Panaeolus chlorosystis.. I seem to think that since it has been first put into the catagory of Copelandia that the casters i find could not be that, because copelandia mushrooms all seem to bruise blue throughout the entire mushroom (cap and stems) when, the castaneifolius will only blue at the base of the stem. And also because Copelandia species have no brown in the stems (to my knowledge at least), and the castaneifoilus' have the signiture reddish/brown color near the base of their stems.

Now, digging in further, the prints that I took of my suspected pan casters (of which i found over 200 specimens of these during the month of March), the prints of them turned out to be Black. So if Panaeolus castaneifoilus is symonius with "Paneolina castaneifolia", then we have a problem, because Paneolina mushrooms render a dark black/Purple spore deposit..

I mailed four (4) of the Pan caster prints in question to the spore provider SporeWorks, this was several months ago and i have heard no news of their whereabout or progress. I guess things didnt PAN out for their company SO, If anyone else would be willing to take a stab at growing them, or even inspecting the spores under a microscope for me, i would be more than welcome to send you a print.


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Panaeolus subbalteatus(pics, 8/16/01) [Re: GGreatOne234]
    #374283 - 08/18/01 09:22 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

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InvisibleGGreatOne234
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Re: Panaeolus subbalteatus(pics, 8/16/01) [Re: World Spirit]
    #374337 - 08/18/01 11:44 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

heheheh i wasnt speaking in hostility towards SporeWorks or Workman no way

it seems to pass my mind so often thinking about how those pan casters would do with cultivateing them.. cause if people can grow those as good as they can copelandia's..im sure that they would be a hit.

Casters taste like fine table mushrooms..and theyre the smoothest trips ive experienced.

if you want to see some pics of them heres a link;
http://hometown.aol.com/ggreatone234/page1.html

ShroomOn,
ggreatone23


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Offlinerungi
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Re: Panaeolus subbalteatus(pics, 8/16/01) [Re: GGreatOne234]
    #375926 - 08/21/01 09:29 PM (22 years, 7 months ago)

smallone234,
The reason castaneifolius is put into the Panaeolina genus by some mycologist is not because of the color of the sproes, but the shape or the spores, both foenisecii and castaneifolius have warted spores and grow in grass. Check your spore print under a microscope. All other Panaeolus mushrooms have smoothe spores.
forestfloating13


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Panaeolus subbalteatus(pics, 8/16/01) [Re: GGreatOne234]
    #376124 - 08/22/01 03:02 AM (22 years, 7 months ago)

>If anyone else would be willing to take a stab at growing
>them, or even inspecting the spores under a microscope for
>me, i would be more than welcome to send you a print.
I would be very glad to put my hands on them, sure.


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