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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker


Registered: 07/18/03
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Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Legalization
#3721578 - 02/02/05 09:04 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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-------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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PsillyNilly
Stranger
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Re: Legalization [Re: Ravus] 1
#3722489 - 02/02/05 11:13 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Woulda asked for shroom too.....Definatley legalizaion of shrooms
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker


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Indeed, though I'd think anyone who's for the legalization of LSD would obviously be for the legalization of mushrooms, especially on a site like this. It's mainly the controversial ones I want to see people's reactions on, a libertarian vs. health viewpoint and such.
-------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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PsillyNilly
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Re: Legalization [Re: Ravus]
#3722533 - 02/02/05 11:24 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Ya...it looks like there is some "no"'s for LSD though. I think shrooms would probably fit right inbetween (if now with) MJ.
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daba
Stranger


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It's hard to say. There are is a certain percentage of people who should never be allowed to touch psychedelic drugs; for their sake and ours.
What's also hard to decide is the legal age for such substances. What would one consider an age of maturation? Moreso, how much of the populous the psychedelic experience increase the process towards maturation?
Since many of us agree that psychedelics provide a certain degree of recreation, regardless of original intent, therein lies a problem. Recreation always creates a possible pathway to abuse. You begin to wonder, maybe that's why they're all illegal. Not that I'm for it, but a good observation is: Keep it illegal, keep it simple.
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TODAY
Battletoad


Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
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Re: Legalization [Re: Ravus]
#3723264 - 02/03/05 02:20 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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no way could we legalize lsd...there'd be so many people getting their hands on it that shouldn't get their hands on it. including kids and people who just wouldn't be able to handle it. you have to know when you are ready and if it was legal it could turn into a spur of the moment lapse of judgement on the hands of the inexperienced.
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ca'rouse (k-rouz) intr.v. To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.
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Annom
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Re: Legalization [Re: Ravus]
#3723274 - 02/03/05 02:21 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'm shocked to see that most people are against legalization of all drugs! Like really really really shocked! What the fuck is this people? Where is the logic? What are you thinking? Don't you see the war on drugs isn't working and it costs huge amounts of money? Don't you see how big criminal organizations are supported by drugs money? Don't you think we have the right to do with our body what we want ? Aarrrhhhhh.... I think I have to cry!
"the issue is freedom if you life in a free country you have the right to put anything you want in your own body, anything else is bullshit!" - penn and teller....
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Annom
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Re: Legalization [Re: TODAY]
#3723284 - 02/03/05 02:25 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
TODAY said: no way could we legalize lsd...there'd be so many people getting their hands on it that shouldn't get their hands on it. including kids and people who just wouldn't be able to handle it. you have to know when you are ready and if it was legal it could turn into a spur of the moment lapse of judgement on the hands of the inexperienced.
Who are you to decide what others should do with their body? You can give information about drugs, but not tell others what to do with their body... That's exactly what the US gov does... deciding for others what's good and bad for their body. Please don't make the same fault!
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butterflydawn
lucid dreamer


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Re: Legalization [Re: Annom]
#3723407 - 02/03/05 03:14 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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imo all should be legalized, and the age should be 19.
-------------------- lucidal expansion
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phi1618
old hand

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Re: Legalization [Re: Annom]
#3723416 - 02/03/05 03:16 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'm for the eventual legalization of all substances, but I don't think it's practical to approach the subject of heroin or cocaine now. There are very strong arguments that can be used to support the position that hard drugs and psychedelics should be banned. These arguments are based on an idea of the proper role of government that I don't agree with, but most people do. This is not the time to get into a discussion with anyone about legalizing LSD.
On the other hand, there are no convincing arguments that marijuana should be illegal. By concentrating on the issue of marijuana legaization, we can expose the horrors of the drug war and demonstrate that the proponents of the drug war have their own self interest, and not the interests of society, at heart.
Once recreational use of marijuana is accepted, and the social problems are seen by the majority of people to be less than the harm of marijuana prohibition, we can consider other drug policies in a realistic fashion.
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BlueMeany215
Atom HeartMother
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Re: Legalization [Re: phi1618]
#3723919 - 02/03/05 08:36 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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you have to know how to handle psychedelics, coke and heroin handle you, that is why psychedelics and pot should be legal. i love marijuana, i love mushrooms. i would really like to try peyote though
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero


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It should not be illegal for you to put anything you want into your body. If you want to shoot up gasoline, who am I to stop you. Place a realistic tax on drugs based upon their danger to society. Use the tax money for education and rehabilitation. Minimum age can be either 18, or 21, but should match the age of "adulthood". In other words, if you are old enough to be drafted into the military, or to be tried in court as an adult, then you are old enough to smoke, drink, and have sex after dark doggy style.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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BlueMeany215
Atom HeartMother
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Re: Legalization [Re: Seuss]
#3724123 - 02/03/05 10:04 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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seuss i do not agree with anything you can put in your body, a kid from the school i graduated from shot some heroin and did an oxy or something, and he ODed. but very well phrased "if you are old enough to be drafted into the military, or to be tried in court as an adult, then you are old enough to smoke, drink, and have sex after dark doggy style."
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Annom
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Registered: 12/22/02
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a kid from the school i graduated from shot some heroin and did an oxy or something, and he ODed
Any idea how many people die from using alcohol? How many people kill other while driving under influence? How many people get aggressive while drunk? You have to be consequent...
See how good the war on drugs works? Perfect example. Banning drugs doesn't stop people from using it. Look at this table. Weed can be bought in shops in Holland:

Even if you don't agree that everyone should make their own decisions about their body, you have to see that the war on drugs is not working! Banning something just doesn't work. What happened when they bootlegged alcohol?....
You can better use the money to provide good information!
Edited by Annom (02/03/05 10:51 AM)
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Annom
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Registered: 12/22/02
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Re: Legalization [Re: Annom]
#3724272 - 02/03/05 10:52 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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niteowl
GrandPaw


Registered: 07/01/03
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Loc:
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Re: Legalization [Re: Annom]
#3724304 - 02/03/05 11:05 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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On the banning of alcohol issue. Shouldnt the alcohol be broken down between the fermented alcohol(beer, wine) and the distilled alcohol(hard liquor)
IMO the distilled forms of alcohol are WAY more dangerous than fermented forms.
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero


Registered: 04/27/01
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> Shouldnt the alcohol be broken down between the fermented alcohol(beer, wine) and the distilled alcohol
Hehe... this is exactly what led me to the 'everything should be legal' position. There are simply too many rules and loopholes and such when we try to make one type of thing legal but keep another type of thing illegal.
> a kid from the school i graduated from shot some heroin and did an oxy or something, and he ODed.
He didn't OD because he shot some heroin or did an oxy or something, he ODed because he took too much of something. The word, OVERdose... too much dosage. Had the drugs been legal, and had he been educated on the proper dosages, and had the drugs purchased been of a standardized strength, then the kid from your highschool would probably still be alive.
Who am I to tell you that you can drink alcohol, but not smoke tobacco. Who am I to tell you that you can smoke tobacco, but you can't eat sugar. Who am I to tell you what you can or cannot do to your body, or what you can or cannot put into your body? People have to be free to make their own decisions in life and they must be free to suffer the consequences of their actions.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker


Registered: 07/18/03
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Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Re: Legalization [Re: Seuss]
#3724704 - 02/03/05 01:17 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Exactly. I'm extremely surprised so many people here on the Shroomery believe that the government should tell people what they can and can't put in their bodies by keeping certain drugs criminalized. I'm for the legalization of all drugs by those over 18
-------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Legalization [Re: Ravus]
#3724821 - 02/03/05 01:51 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'm for legalizing all those things. The minimum age should be 16 for marijuana and 18 for everything else.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero


Registered: 04/27/01
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> The minimum age should be 16 for marijuana and 18 for everything else.
I disagree with you on this... high school is for learning, college is for exploring. Legal age should be 18 (or 21 if we want to raise the draft age). I do think parents should be allowed to decide if their children can do drug XYZ in the home, church, etc... so I am not 100% against the 16 year old smoking... but only if the parents approve of it and are present during the act. (I am also in favor of lowering the drinking age to 18, unless we raise the draft age and vote age to 21.)
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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PsiliPSIENTIST
Closet Chemist

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Re: Legalization [Re: Annom]
#3725372 - 02/03/05 04:08 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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I am a strong advocate of the legalization (and use of) such drugs as psychadelics and marijuana. I also think anyone has the right to put into their body whatever they want, but I think there should be strict regulations on use, not to say how much or often, but limitiations such as public intoxication laws, selling to minors, minors in possession, and DUI laws. I think these wouldn't really be necessary for pot, but for the rest it would be a matter of the safety to others which is more important than one person having a killer trip.
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theocean06
Yeah, I've donefour already...

Registered: 07/10/04
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Re: Legalization [Re: Ravus]
#3726295 - 02/03/05 06:44 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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I am for legalization of all drugs. Age limit should be set at 21 years old. The only problem I think would be, how could you test someone for LSD or heroin if a cop were you pull you over? For alcohol, they have the breathalyzer, for MJ they have the mouth swab thing, but what about other drugs?
I do think that irresponsible use of psychedelics and most other drugs would run ramped though, which is sad. It is not my place to judge a person on what they can or cannot put in their body, it's just that I think there are many people who would do these drugs to get fucked up, for shits and giggles, and end up in a dangerous situation by endangering their life or the lives of others.
"there should be strict regulations on use, not to say how much or often, but limitiations such as public intoxication laws, selling to minors, minors in possession, and DUI laws"
I agree
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The story of life is quicker then the blink of an eye, the story of love is hello, goodbye. - Hendrix
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daba
Stranger


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Re: Legalization [Re: Seuss]
#3726360 - 02/03/05 06:52 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: I disagree with you on this... high school is for learning, college is for exploring.
I have to disagree with you on this. High school is for preparing (and exploring), and college is for learning. Personally, I can't take a day's break in college to "explore" without falling behind.
Depends on the major and school I suppose.
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ShroomOmatic
Ethno Apprentice

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Re: Legalization [Re: Annom]
#3727057 - 02/03/05 08:34 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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To legalize drugs would allow people to stop ODing "as much" because we could find a proper dosage. You wuold also have some punk ass kids try to be "cool" and do some really stupid shit. Im for legalization. But you should be older than 14 lol...
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shymanta
Mad Scientist


Registered: 01/27/05
Posts: 907
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I hear a lot of people taking about the legalization of cannabis and other substances. I'm all for it. But what we have to remember is that it IS in our hands and WE are the one who have to do something about it. No one will do it for us.
The problem is, I think, that we all kinda perceive it as hopeless and are wishing some miracle legislation. One thing that we must keep in mind is that we are the drug culture. We are the future of this country and the world.
If we all put the same effort into proper demonstrating, independent scientific research, and a solid plan of attack that we put into that last minute search for a sack of what usually turns out to be shitty weed...then we can raise above our corrupt oppressors.
Standing firmly together and using there own tactics(the Court System)against them, we WILL prevail. Our forefathers fought for freedom 200 years ago, now we must fight, too. For future generations to enjoy the fruits of our effort the way we enjoy the fruits of our forefathers's.
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Gumby
Fishnologist


Registered: 06/13/01
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Re: Legalization [Re: Annom]
#3729244 - 02/04/05 07:19 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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I am for the legalization of marijuana and psychedellics, but I can't rationalize legalizing things like cocaine, meth and herion. Perhaps this is from my experiences in the past.
I've seen a lot of good friends become addicted to cocaine or meth. Long term stimulant usage changes people. It changes them for the worst. My ex girlfriend who I still love very much used to use coke every day for a long time, and I hated what she became during that time. I had another friend who became addicted to cocaine and totally broke down. He started to show signs of full blown schizophrenia even though he wasn't a schizophrenic.
So no, I can't logically see a reason why drugs that "destroy lives" should be legalized in American Society. Perhaps it works in the Netherlands, but American people are a different group raised with different cultural standards and I think legalizing hardcore stimulants and/or opiates could lead to the downfall of American society. The majority of America just can't handle "hardcore" drugs. There are exceptions to every rule, of course.
Edit: I'd also like to add that I can totally understand where you are coming from on the banning alcohol thing. I'd support it, even though I love alcohol. I can only think of maybe 2 or 3 drugs that do more bodily harm than alcohol does. Alcohol addiction is by far one of the messiest and deadly addictions out there. Don't believe me? Do some research. 10% of all alcoholics who try to quit die, even when hospitalized. Alcohol is far more damaging than most drugs out there.
Edited by Gumby (02/04/05 07:22 AM)
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TODAY
Battletoad


Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
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Re: Legalization [Re: Annom]
#3729868 - 02/04/05 11:09 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Annom said: Who are you to decide what others should do with their body? You can give information about drugs, but not tell others what to do with their body... That's exactly what the US gov does... deciding for others what's good and bad for their body. Please don't make the same fault!
kid dips into their dad's booze stash...he'll probably hate the taste and if does keep drinking most likely the worst case scenario is that he'll throw up. kid dips into his dad's lsd stash and its a whole different ball game.
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ca'rouse (k-rouz) intr.v. To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.
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Gus
Back in town.

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Re: Legalization [Re: TODAY]
#3729890 - 02/04/05 11:16 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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what a great argument...
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero


Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: Legalization [Re: TODAY]
#3730002 - 02/04/05 11:40 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
kid dips into their dad's booze stash...he'll probably hate the taste and if does keep drinking most likely the worst case scenario is that he'll throw up. kid dips into his dad's lsd stash and its a whole different ball game.
I fail to see the difference, or point for that matter. Bad parenting has nothing to do with legalization. Also, not everybody chooses to have children. Regarding alcohol and LSD, alcohol is a much more dangerous substance than LSD.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Supernova
Stranger

Registered: 08/13/03
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Re: Legalization [Re: Seuss]
#3730610 - 02/04/05 01:41 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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I support legalization of some drugs. Age is only one of the restrictions I'd want to see, however. Certain drugs should be restricted to home use. Marijuana and mushrooms should be legal for growing and personal consumption, but I do not like the idea of their commercialization.
LSD becomes much more difficult. It should be legalized for use in "therapy". LSD should not be distributed by anyone or to anyone, even to anyone "of age." It would be good to have certain "centers" established where people could go to dose on LSD. I can envision "pychedelic centers" where the director of the facility has a license for distribution of LSD to guests of the center. These centers would be set up for "group sessions", individual sessions, etc. The centers would be able to take nature tours under the guidance of qualified psychedelic counselors.
AHHH, what a wonderful world it would be....
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Legalization [Re: Gumby]
#3730733 - 02/04/05 02:03 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gumby said: I am for the legalization of marijuana and psychedellics, but I can't rationalize legalizing things like cocaine, meth and herion. Perhaps this is from my experiences in the past.
I've seen a lot of good friends become addicted to cocaine or meth. Long term stimulant usage changes people. It changes them for the worst. My ex girlfriend who I still love very much used to use coke every day for a long time, and I hated what she became during that time. I had another friend who became addicted to cocaine and totally broke down. He started to show signs of full blown schizophrenia even though he wasn't a schizophrenic.
So no, I can't logically see a reason why drugs that "destroy lives" should be legalized in American Society. Perhaps it works in the Netherlands, but American people are a different group raised with different cultural standards and I think legalizing hardcore stimulants and/or opiates could lead to the downfall of American society. The majority of America just can't handle "hardcore" drugs. There are exceptions to every rule, of course.
Edit: I'd also like to add that I can totally understand where you are coming from on the banning alcohol thing. I'd support it, even though I love alcohol. I can only think of maybe 2 or 3 drugs that do more bodily harm than alcohol does. Alcohol addiction is by far one of the messiest and deadly addictions out there. Don't believe me? Do some research. 10% of all alcoholics who try to quit die, even when hospitalized. Alcohol is far more damaging than most drugs out there.
I think you're falling into the trap of equating legalizing with promoting. All prohibition does is make people who have a health problem(addiction) into criminals. You don't heal sick people in jail. People who have problems with meth, coke, heroin, etc. should feel free to discuss their problem with a doctor without the fear of exposing themselves as criminals. Also, the fact that you say you'd support alcohol prohibition tells me that you don't know much about the history of prohibition. Look it up, and realize that prohibition makes the problem worse, not better.
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TODAY
Battletoad


Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
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Re: Legalization [Re: Seuss]
#3731182 - 02/04/05 03:37 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: I fail to see the difference, or point for that matter. Bad parenting has nothing to do with legalization. Also, not everybody chooses to have children. Regarding alcohol and LSD, alcohol is a much more dangerous substance than LSD.
bad parenting has nothing to do with a curious kid boosting open the liquor cabinet or stealing from the store or whatnot. kids are curious, they'll find a way, at least i and all my friends did.
i believe that lsd is more dangerous than alcohol. i know that when alcohol is abused it is dangerous but legally selling lsd would be quite a problem in my opinion.
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ca'rouse (k-rouz) intr.v. To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Legalization [Re: TODAY]
#3731713 - 02/04/05 05:33 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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The reason alcohol is so readily available for teenagers is not because it's legal, but because so many of their parents drink. Not very many people use LSD, and past experience has shown that legalizing a drug does not increase usage by a significant margin, so the whole scenario of a kid finding his parents' LSD stash would be no more likely then than it is now.
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theocean06
Yeah, I've donefour already...

Registered: 07/10/04
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And because it is really really easy to get, unlike LSD.
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The story of life is quicker then the blink of an eye, the story of love is hello, goodbye. - Hendrix
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Maybe so, but even then, I don't think we'd see a great rise in hallucinogen use if they were legalized. People generally are afraid of what hallucinogens might do to mind. Rightly so, I'd say. Better to have hallucinogens mostly used by people who are careful with them.
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker


Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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I agree, just because something becomes legal it doesn't mean a huge influx of people will start doing it who've never touched a drug before. It'll mainly just free our prisons, save us hundreds of billions of dollars and restore needed civil liberties to drug users and others who are wrongly prosecuted by the government.
Harm reduction should be our focus, not criminalization. Sell clean needles to heroin addicts, have safe places for them to shoot up and clean regulated heroin, and I can almost guarantee it will be a safer life for many addicts compared to living on the streets, sharing needles and shooting up heroin cut with who knows what.
-------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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Land_Crab
NeuroticPsychonaut


Registered: 08/29/04
Posts: 2,194
Loc: U.S.
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Re: Legalization [Re: Ravus]
#3732872 - 02/04/05 10:02 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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I am for the decriminalization of marijuana. I do not believe that hard drugs should be legal, although I do believe that addicts should be regarded as patients, and not criminals. I'm not sure about hallucinogens, though I do say that current sentencing guidelines regarding the use and possession of medium and hard drugs need to be severely revamped.
I favor decriminalization because it is more realistic than outright legalization - which, unfortunately, isn't saying much. And it's certainly more realistic than legalizing hard drugs, which, from a practical standpoint, is absurd. And there need to be reasonable restrictions on pot, like not using the drug in or near the presence of minors.
It really is ridiculous that marijuana is still regarded as a Schedule I drug, with no medicinal value. Where does that leave alcohol, then? Seems to me that alcohol should be schedule I. Of course, it's been used for thousands of years, the bible says it's OK, and it is socially acceptable to the point where it is virtually required, so it must be fine. But pot has a much shorter and very different history, so here we are.
I am totally opposed to legalizing hard drugs. Drugs like crystal meth and crack cocaine are incredibly destructive in the lives of individuals, as well as society. If you've been on these drugs, you understand. This goes beyond the right of a person to ingest anything they want, because we're talking about drugs that are a public health hazard. Ever heard of the crack epidemic?
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Legalization [Re: Land_Crab]
#3732955 - 02/04/05 10:19 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Land_Crab said: I am totally opposed to legalizing hard drugs. Drugs like crystal meth and crack cocaine are incredibly destructive in the lives of individuals, as well as society. If you've been on these drugs, you understand. This goes beyond the right of a person to ingest anything they want, because we're talking about drugs that are a public health hazard. Ever heard of the crack epidemic?
Again, you're making the fallacy of assuming that prohibition is somehow keeping usage of these drugs down. Legalizing them would not cause increased usage, but would lead to harm reduction, as well as keeping the profits from them out of the hands of criminals and in the hands of legitimate businesses, so there would be far less bloodshed.
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker


Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Re: Legalization [Re: Land_Crab]
#3733022 - 02/04/05 10:29 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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No one's trying to justify using hard drugs, but keeping them illegal doesn't help the situation. Remember the crack epidemic? Yes I do, that happened DURING prohibition, so if prohibition is such a failure why do you support it?
Wouldn't it be healthier to society if we actually made these drugs cleaner and cheaper for the addicts so they don't have to become homeless and steal to support their habit, and making treatment easier to obtain for them because they don't have to worry about legal consequences for simply using their drug? Putting people in prison doesn't work, and criminalizing the market doesn't solve the problem, it only gives the market to gangsters, thugs and others who work purely for money and do not hesitate to use violence. Prohibition quite literally funds gangs and terrorists, as otherwise that money would go to legitimate businesses that can be regulated and scrutinized the FDA and other such organizations.
-------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Legalization [Re: Ravus]
#3733063 - 02/04/05 10:37 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'd say it's actually more important that we legalize hard drugs than to legalize weed and psychedelics. There isn't a high instance of psychedelics being cut with other, more dangerous substances(unless you count E as psychedelic). Also, weed and acid dealers usually don't go around offing each other like crack dealers do. I think legalizing hard drugs would be much more beneficial to society in terms of increasing public health and decreasing crime than legalizing marijuana would be.
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Locus



Registered: 03/11/04
Posts: 6,112
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
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Re: Legalization [Re: Ravus]
#3733205 - 02/04/05 11:03 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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LEGALIZE ALL DRUGS AND STOP THIS FUCKING BULLSHIT DRUG WAR ALREADY! That's what I want. Fucking throwing all the money out for no fucking reason and making things a lot worse than they would be if everything was fucking legalized al god damn fucking ready!!! We'd all fucking be better off. Crime rates, rehabilitation, money, safety, etc etc etc etc... Fucking will never stop pissing me off.
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The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity. ~ Albert Einstein "Fear is the great barrier to human growth." ~ Dr. Robert Monroe ~~~*Dosis sola facit venenum*~~~ *Check my profile to listen to my music*
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker


Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Re: Legalization [Re: Locus]
#3733230 - 02/04/05 11:10 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Sadly I can't see that happening. Not even the majority of Shroomerites are for legalization, and it's a forum of people who use and cultivate illegal drugs. For the common person they'd be even more against legalization. 
Seems that many sheople think the government should decide what they can and can't put in their bodies. C'est la vie
-------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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Land_Crab
NeuroticPsychonaut


Registered: 08/29/04
Posts: 2,194
Loc: U.S.
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The legalization of hard drugs (which, by my definition, do not include hallucinogens) has about as much chance of succeeding in this country as Ralph Nader has of becoming President.
Now, this is coming from my intuition, but I'm not so sure that making all recreational drugs available to the public wouldn't impact the overall useage of said drugs. Jesus, if cocaine was legal, I'd probably go get some right now! That's not a good thing, considering I've been clean for 3 years, and was severely addicted for 3 years before that. Heck, let's throw in some opium while we're at it! Can you imagine how many more people would be smoking opium if they could just get it at the corner drugstore? That's the main reason it was made illegal in the first place! Look at how widespread alcohol use is. This is due to many things, but one of those things is the fact that it's legal and incredibly easy to obtain!
Anyways, it ain't gonna happen anytime soon, so this is all hypothetical. That's why I say start with something more realistic, like ganja. There are so many people in this country whose extent of knowledge about drugs is limited to: "drugs are bad". I'm having a conversation on another website with a fellow who believes that pot is causing an epidemic of mental illness.
And, I'm not trying to be a bastard, but would someone just type: "Legalizing crack cocaine is a good idea."
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Supernova
Stranger

Registered: 08/13/03
Posts: 3,151
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Re: Legalization [Re: Land_Crab]
#3733304 - 02/04/05 11:24 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Legalization of all drugs will never happen. Be real. Fight a battle you can win. Marijuana will be legalized because there are enough people backing it up, and it has legitimate arguments for legalization.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Legalization [Re: Land_Crab]
#3733333 - 02/04/05 11:28 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Land_Crab said: The legalization of hard drugs (which, by my definition, do not include hallucinogens) has about as much chance of succeeding in this country as Ralph Nader has of becoming President.
This has nothing to do with likelihood and everything to do with what's right.
Quote:
Now, this is coming from my intuition, but I'm not so sure that making all recreational drugs available to the public wouldn't impact the overall useage of said drugs. Jesus, if cocaine was legal, I'd probably go get some right now! That's not a good thing, considering I've been clean for 3 years, and was severely addicted for 3 years before that. Heck, let's throw in some opium while we're at it! Can you imagine how many more people would be smoking opium if they could just get it at the corner drugstore? That's the main reason it was made illegal in the first place! Look at how widespread alcohol use is. This is due to many things, but one of those things is the fact that it's legal and incredibly easy to obtain!
Look up the history of alcohol prohibition. Alcohol has always been common among Western society, and prohibition failed to change that. I'm sorry that you lack the self-control to not go to the store and buy cocaine, but how is that any different from going to your dealer to get it, other than the danger involved?
Quote:
Anyways, it ain't gonna happen anytime soon, so this is all hypothetical. That's why I say start with something more realistic, like ganja. There are so many people in this country whose extent of knowledge about drugs is limited to: "drugs are bad". I'm having a conversation on another website with a fellow who believes that pot is causing an epidemic of mental illness.
Again, I'm not dealing here with what will happen(who the hell knows for sure anyway), but what should happen.
Quote:
And, I'm not trying to be a bastard, but would someone just type: "Legalizing crack cocaine is a good idea."
Legalizing crack would be a damn good idea, as would legalizing meth, heroin, and all those other "evil" drugs.
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker


Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Re: Legalization [Re: Land_Crab]
#3733353 - 02/04/05 11:36 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Read some history man. For example:
Your comment:
Quote:
Look at how widespread alcohol use is. This is due to many things, but one of those things is the fact that it's legal and incredibly easy to obtain!
Quote:
Although consumption of alcohol fell at the beginning of Prohibition, it subsequently increased. Alcohol became more dangerous to consume; crime increased and became "organized"; the court and prison systems were stretched to the breaking point; and corruption of public officials was rampant. No measurable gains were made in productivity or reduced absenteeism. Prohibition removed a significant source of tax revenue and greatly increased government spending. It led many drinkers to switch to opium, marijuana, patent medicines, cocaine, and other dangerous substances that they would have been unlikely to encounter in the absence of Prohibition. Those results are documented from a variety of sources, most of which, ironically, are the work of supporters of Prohibition--most economists and social scientists supported it. Their findings make the case against Prohibition that much stronger.
hird, the resources devoted to enforcement of Prohibition increased along with consumption. Heightened enforcement did not curtail consumption. The annual budget of the Bureau of Prohibition went from $4.4 million to $13.4 milion during the 1920s, while Coast Guard spending on Prohibition averaged over $13 million per year.[8] To those amounts should be added the expenditures of state and local governments.
Sunday's expectations of Prohibition were never realized. He and other champions of Prohibition expected it to reduce crime and solve a host of social problems by eliminating the Demon Rum. Early temperance reformers claimed that alcohol was responsible for everything from disease to broken homes. High on their list of evils were the crime and poverty associated with intemperance. They felt that the burden of taxes could be reduced if prisons and poorhouses could be emptied by abstinence. That perspective was largely based on interviews of inmates of prisons and poorhouses who claimed that their crimes and poverty were the result of alcohol.[40] Social "scientists" later used those correlations as propaganda "to persuade many people to turn to saloon suppression and prohibition."[41]
America had experienced a gradual decline in the rate of serious crimes over much of the 19th and early 20th centuries. That trend was unintentionally reversed by the efforts of the Prohibition movement. The homicide rate in large cities increased from 5.6 per 100,000 population during the first decade of the century to 8.4 during the second decade when the Harrison Narcotics Act, a wave of state alcohol prohibitions, and World War I alcohol restrictions were enacted. The homicide rate increased to 10 per 100,000 population during the 1920s, a 78 percent increase over the pre-Prohibition period.
The Volstead Act, passed to enforce the Eighteenth Amendment, had an immediate impact on crime. According to a study of 30 major U.S. cities, the number of crimes increased 24 percent between 1920 and 1921. The study revealed that during that period more money was spent on po- lice (11.4+ percent) and more people were arrested for violating Prohibition laws (102+ percent). But increased law enforcement efforts did not appear to reduce drinking: arrests for drunkenness and disorderly conduct increased 41 percent, and arrests of drunken drivers increased 81 percent. Among crimes with victims, thefts and burglaries increased 9 percent, while homicides and incidents of assault and battery increased 13 percent.[42] More crimes were committed because prohibition destroys legal jobs, creates black-market violence, diverts resources from enforcement of other laws, and greatly increases the prices people have to pay for the prohibited goods.
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-157.html
Indeed, so alcohol prohibition didn't work. Look at the damage it does, and how much more it would cause if it was illegal.
Your next statement is obviously false, but I'll address it anyway.
Quote:
Heck, let's throw in some opium while we're at it! Can you imagine how many more people would be smoking opium if they could just get it at the corner drugstore? That's the main reason it was made illegal in the first place!
Nope, wrong again. In fact, the criminalization of opium, cocaine and marijuana had NOTHING AT ALL to do with health problems. It was all based purely on racism.
Quote:
In the early 20th century, labor leader Samuel Gompers set forth his reasons to Congress why opium should be criminalized: "Opium gives the Chinese immigrant workers an unfair advantage in the labor market."
Racists in Congress supported drug criminalization in order to suppress the "Jew peddlers," while the State Department's "opium commissioner," Hamilton Wright, urged criminalization of cocaine on grounds that it turned African-Americans into rapists of white women.
On such specious and racist foundations were drugs criminalized. (It is perhaps not an irony that today, at a time when African-Americans struggle for economic opportunities, they make up 90 percent of those actually prosecuted and incarcerated for minor drug offenses. The devastating impact on the families, social fabric, and economic opportunities for African-Americans is virtually impossible to measure.)
Indeed, drugs were considered only a "minor medical problem" prior to criminalization in 1914. In the 1920s, Congressman Richard Hobson was one of the first to realize the specious justifications for criminalization and its terrible consequences: "Ten years ago [before criminalization] the narcotic drug addiction problem was a minor medical problem. Today, it is a major national problem, constituting the chief factor menacing public health today."
Just as alcohol deaths skyrocketed during Prohibition, drug deaths increased after criminalization, since illegal drugs are not subject to orderly regulation for purity and safety. But the largest number of deaths is due to drug criminalization itself. More than 1,600 murders occur every year by drug dealers who take advantage of the profit opportunities afforded by drug criminalization.
http://www.reconsider.org/tidbits/2004-03-14__What%20if%20a%20Martian%20came%20to%20the%20U_S__.htm
Oh, and by the way, legalizing crack cocaine is a good idea.
-------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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Land_Crab
NeuroticPsychonaut


Registered: 08/29/04
Posts: 2,194
Loc: U.S.
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Addiction has very little to do with self-control. Don't you know that?
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Land_Crab
NeuroticPsychonaut


Registered: 08/29/04
Posts: 2,194
Loc: U.S.
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Re: Legalization [Re: Land_Crab]
#3733581 - 02/05/05 12:21 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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"Statistics show that Prohibition reduced the annual per capita consumption from 9.8 liters (2.6 gal) of absolute alcohol during the period before state laws were effective (1906-1910) to 3.7 liters (0.97 gal) after Prohibition (1934)." http://www.neworegontrail.com/prohibition.htm http://ca.encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761564677/Prohibition.html http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3ac108f855d2.htm
And don't condescend me and make this personal. If you can't have a conversation like an adult, then we have nothing left to talk about...
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero


Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
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Re: Legalization [Re: Land_Crab]
#3734202 - 02/05/05 04:31 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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I still don't understand the people that are against full legalization of all drugs. I don't care about the likelyhood of it happening or not, but I want to understand why people are against it.
So far, the only reason I have seen is: "I have seen or experienced addiction to hard drugs and it wasn't good. They are too dangerous for people to use and should be illegal."
Please, help me out here... what other reasons do you folks have for wanting to prevent people from being responsible for what they put into their own bodies?
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Supernova
Stranger

Registered: 08/13/03
Posts: 3,151
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Re: Legalization [Re: Land_Crab]
#3735322 - 02/05/05 01:40 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Land_Crab said: Addiction has very little to do with self-control. Don't you know that?
I totally disagree. Anyone can break an addiction by exerting self control. It may be VERY difficult, but unless self control is used, no addiction can be broken. Overcoming an addiction is all about self control. Having an addiction is all about lack of self control. The concept of addiction as a disease disgusts me. I used to be a cocaine addict. I used to be an alcoholic. I used to be addicted to LSD. I used to be addicted to opiates. I am no longer addicted to any of those things. Would I enjoy dropping acid? Yeah. Is it possible that I would start abusing it if I did it? Sure. Am I going to do it. No. Why? Because I have the self control to not do it. I am no longer addicted to those things. It makes some people feel better to say addiction is a disease. It takes away personal responsibility for your decision to use. The bottomline is that when you shoot up, it is you who is shooting up. You may tell yourself "I have to do it because I'm hooked and will suffer if I don't", but you still have the choice. You could not do it and suffer and overcome the addiction and free yourself of the addiction. This may require medication and hospitalization in serious cases, particularly with drugs like heroin and alcohol. But it is still the user's decision. Only the user has control over it. And that is by definition an issue of "self-control".
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Locus



Registered: 03/11/04
Posts: 6,112
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
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damn right man! that's what i am saying.. Ravus, Seuss, Paradigm...
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The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity. ~ Albert Einstein "Fear is the great barrier to human growth." ~ Dr. Robert Monroe ~~~*Dosis sola facit venenum*~~~ *Check my profile to listen to my music*
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Land_Crab
NeuroticPsychonaut


Registered: 08/29/04
Posts: 2,194
Loc: U.S.
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Re: Legalization [Re: Supernova]
#3736383 - 02/05/05 05:15 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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supernova - I do not agree with your assessment of the nature of addiction. Though willpower is a factor, it certainly isn't the only factor. That's like looking at all of psychology and defining it only in terms of the Humanistic perspective (self-concept, free choice, and the potential for growth as the sources of behavior), while ignoring the Behavioral (the power of the environment to influence behavior), Psychodynamic (the unconscious), Cognitive (conscious thought, perception, and information processing as the causes of behavior), Sociocultural (social interaction and the cultural context of behavior), and Biological (emphasizes the influence of genetics and of physical processes occurring in the brain and the hormone system). The point being that it's not as simple as explaining addiction as a matter of self-control, or lack thereof.
Of course the end decision whether or not to use is the responsibility of the individual, but there are factors that go into making that decision. One of those factors is biology. A heroin addict may continue to use because he is physically addicted to the drug, and just can't bear the symptoms of withdrawal. Whatever free will he has is mitigated by biological processes beyond his control. The fact that there are other forces at work beyond willpower is the reason why we have things like methadone clinics and treatment centers. Just because a person can't beat a severe addiction on his own does not necessarily imply that he is weak-willed.
When we talk about biology and drug addiction, we are talking mostly about the biology of the brain. The neural mechanisms by which addictive drugs act exist in the brains of all people. Genetics certainly play a role in the propensity for addiction, as it has been proven that the offspring of alcoholics are more likely to become alcoholics themselves.
"Drugs that are truly addictive (stimulants, opiates, alcohol, nicotine) can actually substitute for food, sex, or other primary reinforcers. This explains why rapid injection of cocaine or heroin produces a "rush" of pure pleasure that most users compare to the pleasure of orgasm. This isn't only true for certain people who lack willpower, or who are willing to engage in a deviant lifestyle. It is true for everyone who has a brain. It automatically becomes easier to understand why addiction is such a common problem across cultures." - BUZZED, p. 248
It's important for us to have conversations about this stuff, and to try to approach this incredibly broad topic with open minds. I await further quotation gambits...
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ShroomOmatic
Ethno Apprentice

Registered: 10/14/04
Posts: 2,373
Loc: Sailing the Seas of Chees...
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Re: Legalization [Re: Supernova]
#3736687 - 02/05/05 06:12 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Booze does more dammage to people than marijauna. MJ should be legal before achole should.
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Supernova
Stranger

Registered: 08/13/03
Posts: 3,151
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Re: Legalization [Re: Land_Crab]
#3736729 - 02/05/05 06:24 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Land Crab- I don't disagree with you. I have had my share of addictions. I continue to have many. Many of them are rooted in environmental and genetic factors I am sure. However, I find that those are too often used as excuses, and I believe it does most "addicts" a disservice to suggest to them that their addictions are "caused" by things that are beyond their control.
BTW, I'm aware of the various theories on addiction. I have undergraduate degrees in psychology and biochemistry. I just simply do not believe that there is any addiction that is beyond the ability of a human to overcome. I do understand, however, that many are enslaved by societal misconceptions about the nature of addiction. Such constraints cause them to give up hope. And when a person loses hope, the chances of overcoming an addiction are slim.
This is simply my belief. It's what has helped me to overcome many addictions.
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Locus



Registered: 03/11/04
Posts: 6,112
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
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Re: Legalization [Re: Supernova]
#3739974 - 02/06/05 07:26 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well, I'll tell you one thing about addiction.. besides everything else.. if you're not happy with your life and you *need* that escape then you're not going to be able to stop. Or it will be a major part of what is keeping you from quitting, and relapse. But I guess this is a given anyway.
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The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity. ~ Albert Einstein "Fear is the great barrier to human growth." ~ Dr. Robert Monroe ~~~*Dosis sola facit venenum*~~~ *Check my profile to listen to my music*
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Land_Crab
NeuroticPsychonaut


Registered: 08/29/04
Posts: 2,194
Loc: U.S.
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Re: Legalization [Re: Supernova]
#3740875 - 02/06/05 01:48 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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I understand what you mean, supernova. Hey, whatever works for you. I am also familiar with addiction, as I have been a coke fiend and an alcoholic. One thing that helped me overcome (for the most part) my alcoholism was hiding in the bushes (literally) and spying on people. So if the shit fits, wear it.
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PsiliPSIENTIST
Closet Chemist

Registered: 01/20/05
Posts: 44
Loc: watching you
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
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Re: Legalization [Re: Land_Crab]
#3751625 - 02/08/05 04:04 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Ok, if drugs were legal our economy would, not so much go to shit, but probably become static. Rich oil farmers and stockholders in fortune 500 companies and shit like that are the ones who cnotrol this nation, they lobby(well pay lobbyists) and in turn control congress. If all these substances in question were legal I do believe many more people would be open to their use because so many people are reliant on what the government tells them, and if the government says "drugs are good now, mmmk" then people would be like oh! cool. Kinda like eggs, Uncle Sam said they were bad, then 10 years later they were good, then they were bad, now they're like in everyones fucking pathetic atkins diet because they are good again. The only problem is that, unlike eggs, drugs like marijuana and shrooms make people complacent, happy with what they have. I know shrooms taught me a lot, like to quit worrying about stupid shit, which is what drives America. Other drugs (coke, LSD, etc) people would no longer have to work so hard for and spending their whole paycheck on which, in turn is used by those who cash in to buy cadillacs on 22's and all kinds of shit, since upon legalization prices would hit the floor. This would all lead to a more utopian society with less crime, i believe, but stupid moneyhungry fucks that rule us just want more green and, without an act of God or whatever you believe in, will never have the brain capacity to broaden their views and realize money is the root of all evil. A utopian society would be so easy to acheive if everyone would stop bitchin about trying to make more of this abritrary piece of paper which they believe brings value to their lives. Damn them! I say we burn all the money in the world, respect everyone for his or her own beliefs, and just FUCKING LIVE! Sorry... I get pissed off when I think about how oppressive our rulers are in this "democracy", but seriously, why do people find it so hard just to fucking sit back and chill the fuck out!
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niteowl
GrandPaw


Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker


Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Quote:
If all these substances in question were legal I do believe many more people would be open to their use because so many people are reliant on what the government tells them, and if the government says "drugs are good now, mmmk" then people would be like oh! cool.

While it's an interesting theory, history and other countries have shown that dropping penalties, like in Oregon when it decriminalized, did not increase the rate of using marijuana, and the Netherlands, where marijuana is near legal and can be bought in coffeeshops, actually has less teens using marijuana than in the U.S. The government could have the same campaign against drugs as they do against cigarettes and alcohol, where they have commercials and warnings or such, and indeed remind of the harms of them, but in the end also let the people decide for themselves rather than being dictators over their free will.
You have an interesting belief on the legalization of drugs, but I really don't think it would impact us enough to make us a utopia. I doubt use would rise too much, except perhaps if people switched current drugs, like from using psilocybin to LSD or mescaline, but overall I doubt people who have been anti-drug all their lives will go out and buy a hit of acid or smoke some hash.
I do agree that any money-hungry people would try to take over the industry and control us though, that's happened with nearly everything us, from oil to food to clothes, so why not pot? Money and power hungry people are usually the ones who rise to the top of the industries, even now when drugs are illegal this is the case. The plus to having legal drugs is that the FDA and other legal organizations can balance out their lust for money and power to make sure they have a clean good product, and the people will assure that it's at a reasonable price as otherwise someone else will sell it for cheaper.
-------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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PsiliPSIENTIST
Closet Chemist

Registered: 01/20/05
Posts: 44
Loc: watching you
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
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Re: Legalization [Re: Ravus]
#3757729 - 02/09/05 05:51 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yeah I guess I got carried away a bit on the whole utopia thing, its just I dont see it being that difficult of a thing to accomplish. If people would get the sticks outta their asses and worry about themselves instead of trying to control everything around them, it would be very possible to allow the legal use of drugs, everyone could worship in their own ways, everyone could do their own thing according to their own personal beliefs. Throughout history conflicts have just been matters of disagreements on subjects which are in essence irrelevant, yet these conflicts have lead over the centuries to where we are now, which is a total clusterfuck! And like you said Ravus, people who strive for power are the ones who have capitalized on this. Hell, I'm sure everyone here is aware that the "peacepipes" the native americans used weren't filled with homegrown tobacco, fuck no those guys were high as fuck, and shrooms were used in many of their rituals. People who wanted to get rich quick by selling land then began to use propaganda against them telling colonists they were invoking the devil by using magical concoctions, which eventually lead to common distaste for such drugs and years later lead to the criminalization. This explains why these drugs were first criminalized in the west, and with the influence America has had on the world it is now becoming an epidemic. Now, 400 years after westward expansion, the fear of drugs running rampid in capitalist countries is just irrational. Why have drugs which have been proven to be healthier and less of a risk than alcohol, cigarettes and even many otc drugs continue to be condemned? This seems to be the question that everyone wonders but no one really knows the answer to, so when we figure that out we can all work backwards from there and change things, but until then... well Im still gonna get fucked up whenever I damn well please!
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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
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Re: Legalization [Re: niteowl]
#3820285 - 02/22/05 11:21 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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i am for the legalization of all drugs, with more severe pentalties for DUIs and other kinds of public endangerment. i like the idea of psychedelic centers for the use of psychedelic drugs. this would protect society from the dangers involved with these drugs but not infringe on the freedom to experiment with them. they would slowly spread enlightenment as word of mouth traveled around about the amazing experiences people were having there.
if you think drug legalization in american society would not lead to increased usage, you're kidding yourself. if you could buy opium at the corner store imagine how many kids would be smoking it? its not so much that millions of people who don't use drugs would come rushing out to try them, its the fact that drugs would suddenly become much more safe and available to the population of people who already use or are considering using drugs. prohibition WORKS for all but the most profitable drugs. ketamine, opium, LSD, GHB, mescaline, DMT and 2C-B are all are somewhat difficult to obtain right now so there would be a huge spike in their usage as they become available to all drug users accross the country. secondly, drugs would be much cheaper and available in much larger quantities. right now you can get speed, or benzos or whatever if you're willing to deal with looking for it, risking arrest, getting ripped off/low quality, withdrawal, inflated prices etc. but how many of you can stroll to the drugstore and come home with MDMA, cocaine, valium, morphine, mescaline, LSD and ketamine all for a reasonable price? there would be a small but significant segment of the population that would go way overboard and be totally irresponsible with drugs, using them all the time. drugs would become a huge recreational passtime with the increased social acceptance and the new ability to medicate yourself into any state of mind you wished. i envision major changes to society as a result. as someone else noted some drugs facilate contentment and would harm the economy. for example psychedelics can bring inner peace and draw people away from mindless consumption. opiates can do the same thing if they are cheap, as long as an addict has their opiate they don't need any silly material possesions to make them happy. society would eventually discover that happiness comes from within and the years of government corruption would slowly be exposed. our current society is based on the illusion that the state of conciousness of the status quo is the only real one and any othe is inferior. a slew of a powerful mind altering drugs being legalized to the general public would eventually impact the mind of society.
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trader
Stranger
Registered: 06/30/05
Posts: 19
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
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Re: Legalization [Re: Deviate]
#4354046 - 06/30/05 02:02 AM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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drug is good for ravis
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unearth
Stranger
Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 260
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
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Re: Legalization [Re: daba]
#4356699 - 06/30/05 06:59 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
daba said: It's hard to say. There are is a certain percentage of people who should never be allowed to touch psychedelic drugs; for their sake and ours.
What's also hard to decide is the legal age for such substances. What would one consider an age of maturation? Moreso, how much of the populous the psychedelic experience increase the process towards maturation?
Since many of us agree that psychedelics provide a certain degree of recreation, regardless of original intent, therein lies a problem. Recreation always creates a possible pathway to abuse. You begin to wonder, maybe that's why they're all illegal. Not that I'm for it, but a good observation is: Keep it illegal, keep it simple.
if it was legal people would use it the same as much as it was illegal
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nightkrawler
explorer


Registered: 06/18/04
Posts: 2,980
Loc: new england
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
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Re: Legalization [Re: unearth]
#4357813 - 07/01/05 12:23 AM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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legal age for drugs and alcohol should be 19. it shouldnt be legal for anyone in high school to drink or do drugs, if you could do it in when you're a senior in high school it would get down to all the freshmen, and they're way too young. 19 year olds are out of high school and a lot are in college where everyone is drinking and doing drugs anyway. they're gonna do it no matter what the law is. plus it's stupid that you can get drafted and die for your country at 19 but not take a sip of a beer.
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  Not all who wander are lost - J.R.R. Tolkien
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lilbilski4life
fear andloathing inbozeman

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 199
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
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all should be legalized. but there should be ages for each weed 16 lsd 21 coke 21 heroin 21
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liman
liman
Registered: 04/14/05
Posts: 21
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
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yay natural one mave to be
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cdorise
Stranger
Registered: 03/20/17
Posts: 1
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: Legalization [Re: Seuss]
#24179294 - 03/21/17 12:36 AM (6 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: > The minimum age should be 16 for marijuana and 18 for everything else.
I disagree with you on this... high school is for learning, college is for exploring. Legal age should be 18 (or 21 if we want to raise the draft age). I do think parents should be allowed to decide if their children can do drug XYZ in the home, church, etc... so I am not 100% against the 16 year old smoking... but only if the parents approve of it and are present during the act. (I am also in favor of lowering the drinking age to 18, unless we raise the draft age and vote age to 21.)
They want to put my 15yr old on all kinds of drugs to help her sleep and combat her anxiety. (She has PTSD from being molested). Like really bad stuff. 1/2 a joint at night in bed and she has no sleep problems. Less, much much less anxiety, where she can manage it easily with coping techniques and honestly, she hardly using those either anymore (breathing, counting etc..). No nightmares, scratching herself or anything. For almost a year now.
I make Oil from Greenry and she was taking that, but the effects last soooo much longer she switched it up, she was waking up 8-9 hours later still high. So I'm torn. Some could really use it at 15 etc.... but it might impact schooling etc. and we all know we don't want that.
Too many variables.
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pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South
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Re: Legalization [Re: cdorise]
#24179297 - 03/21/17 12:39 AM (6 years, 10 months ago) |
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Recreational use of marijuana imo should be kept away from adolescents unless like above there is a valid medical need.
I voted to legalize all drugs. Though age of initial use is important.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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Camwritesgonzo
The Unflushable Stool



Registered: 06/09/12
Posts: 2,333
Loc: On Uranus
Last seen: 5 months, 23 days
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Re: Legalization [Re: cdorise]
#24201537 - 03/29/17 12:51 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
cdorise said: They want to put my 15yr old on all kinds of drugs to help her sleep and combat her anxiety. (She has PTSD from being molested). Like really bad stuff. 1/2 a joint at night in bed and she has no sleep problems. Less, much much less anxiety, where she can manage it easily with coping techniques and honestly, she hardly using those either anymore (breathing, counting etc..). No nightmares, scratching herself or anything. For almost a year now.
I make Oil from Greenry and she was taking that, but the effects last soooo much longer she switched it up, she was waking up 8-9 hours later still high. So I'm torn. Some could really use it at 15 etc.... but it might impact schooling etc. and we all know we don't want that.
Too many variables.
I feel it necessary to preface by saying I'm not a medical specialist in any way, shape, or form; but I think the oil idea is good as it cuts out the scratch and cotton mouth from smoking. I simply wanted to add my by suggesting lowering the dose of oil and adding the oil to chamomile and jasmine tea, being it's nighttime you're talking about. Ideally, the tea would provide relaxation into sleep until the cannoil takes effect and works its magic.
-------------------- "I've always maintained that reality is for those who can't face drugs."-Tom Waits "I feel the same way about disco as I feel about herpes."-Hunter S. Thompson A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?
 
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LaofooQ
Chandu Inspector


Registered: 03/30/17
Posts: 70
Loc: Southwest
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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No middle ground, commit or quit. I think it would have to be regulation on the heroin like the cold tablets. There's no way the gov here is going to say you can have enough to poison yourself immediately. 10 grams a month or some limit. Pot who cares? There shouldn't even be laws about pot.
-------------------- Border War Video on my channel next week! https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCHPa7vPRgHSFTib3AnK2ugw We make several Natural Products for humans and animals including a whole line of Mushroom Teas.
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Ezuma
Gontish Wizard



Registered: 12/02/13
Posts: 8,423
Loc: Roke
Last seen: 10 months, 19 days
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Re: Legalization [Re: Ravus]
#24218655 - 04/04/17 06:15 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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I vote legalize everything, but not the industrialized sale and advertising of everything, and I believe different substances should have different legal ages. The most important thing is education, and building a society where people aren't despondent enough that they need to turn to drugs off the bat to get by. That said, 18 is a decent age to start drinking and smoking weed. I'd say 21 for LSD and psychedelics generally, and probably 25 for Heroin/coke etc
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Sacik
Stranger

Registered: 05/22/02
Posts: 10
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: Legalization [Re: Ravus]
#24255167 - 04/18/17 07:05 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Make it all legal, it works in other places. It would work here.
-------------------- A simple opinon from another monkey with a voice.
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Churning
Chain Reaction



Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 1,570
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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Re: Legalization [Re: Sacik]
#24277954 - 04/28/17 06:47 AM (6 years, 8 months ago) |
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There really should be no doubt that everything should be decriminalized for personal use, at the very least. This should have happened already.
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