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OfflineFreeLaws1_6
No Hippy Here

Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 427
Loc: Tejas
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
I HATE "God bless America"
    #3721143 - 02/02/05 10:06 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Why the hell is this still said in all major speeches? Why is this allowed? Is it not a horrible demonstration of how the consitution is not held up? errr....


--------------------
Free Laws: Things to understand before I am Free

1. I am alone
2. There is Nothing
3. I must actualize myself
4. Sex is a tool for pleasure, not status
5. Dependency restricts me
6. Emotions are dangerous if not administered properly



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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Re: I HATE "God bless America" [Re: FreeLaws1_6]
    #3721262 - 02/02/05 10:20 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

it bugs me a little, but i can live with it.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflinePhred
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Re: I HATE "God bless America" [Re: FreeLaws1_6]
    #3721290 - 02/02/05 10:25 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I don't understand your implication that this is in some way unconstitutional. Could you elaborate for us? Thanks.


Phred


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OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
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Re: I HATE "God bless America" [Re: FreeLaws1_6]
    #3721300 - 02/02/05 10:26 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Because America was founded on freedom of religion. If christianty is the major religion, then you will see more of it around. I am not christian but i say fuck those who think we should restrict the rights of those who want to openly profess their faiths.


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OfflineFreeLaws1_6
No Hippy Here

Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 427
Loc: Tejas
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: I HATE "God bless America" [Re: Catalysis]
    #3721368 - 02/02/05 10:36 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Catalysis said:
Because America was founded on freedom of religion. If christianty is the major religion, then you will see more of it around. I am not christian but i say fuck those who think we should restrict the rights of those who want to openly profess their faiths.




I understand what your saying, freedom of religion. But when our president, who is supposed to represent the Constitution, inserts his religion into the POLITICAL ARENA, then it is more than just believing. He should remain as objective as possible when it is pertaining to politics. For example, all people have the right to free thought...but if bush was a supporter of the KKK, should he be allowed to say "Fuck the darkies" at the end of all his speeches? NO!

He should keep his religious view (since it is obviously controversial and addressed in the Constitution) out of the political arena. If he wants to go to church, or pray before dinner..that is completely up to him...but it is UNCONSTITUTIONAL to force the rest of America to listen to him about his religion.

Not to mention he obviously inserts his christian morals into his judicial role... no stem cell research....no gay marriage...come on.


--------------------
Free Laws: Things to understand before I am Free

1. I am alone
2. There is Nothing
3. I must actualize myself
4. Sex is a tool for pleasure, not status
5. Dependency restricts me
6. Emotions are dangerous if not administered properly



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OfflineFreeLaws1_6
No Hippy Here

Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 427
Loc: Tejas
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: I HATE "God bless America" [Re: lonestar2004]
    #3721405 - 02/02/05 10:40 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
it bugs me a little, but i can live with it.




It is certainly easier to think this way, i know. But really, it is that mindset, i feel, that allows the "foot in the door" phenomenon. basically that means that if you give a little bit (like allowing a salesman to put his foot in the door when you open it) then it is much easier to continue to slip things in...eventually you continue to accept little changes or discomforts until...you've excepted the whole action.

Another analogy... you have a leaky faucet...you dont mind that it leaks a little bit. It's frustrating, but its just a little bit, you can afford it or put up with the drip. But before you know it, the whole sink is full and you're paying for a couple of gallons of water that leaked!


--------------------
Free Laws: Things to understand before I am Free

1. I am alone
2. There is Nothing
3. I must actualize myself
4. Sex is a tool for pleasure, not status
5. Dependency restricts me
6. Emotions are dangerous if not administered properly



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OfflineShroomDoom
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Re: I HATE "God bless America" [Re: FreeLaws1_6]
    #3721457 - 02/02/05 10:47 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

it is unconstitutional. there shall henceforth be no established religion..... saying "God Bless America" is implying the America has established Christianity as it's main religion.


"Americans have no king but Jesus"
-John Ashcroft

"God told me to attack Iraq, and i did."
-George W. booshh


--------------------


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OfflineFreeLaws1_6
No Hippy Here

Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 427
Loc: Tejas
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: I HATE "God bless America" [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #3721519 - 02/02/05 10:54 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomDoom said:
it is unconstitutional. there shall henceforth be no established religion..... saying "God Bless America" is implying the America has established Christianity as it's main religion.


"Americans have no king but Jesus"
-John Ashcroft

"God told me to attack Iraq, and i did."
-George W. booshh




Awesome! Thanks for those quotes...it exemplifies the point perfectly! do you have the source for those quotes? I would love to incorporate them!


--------------------
Free Laws: Things to understand before I am Free

1. I am alone
2. There is Nothing
3. I must actualize myself
4. Sex is a tool for pleasure, not status
5. Dependency restricts me
6. Emotions are dangerous if not administered properly



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OfflineCPT_InSaNo
Just anotherfreak in thefreak kingdom

Registered: 01/08/02
Posts: 380
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: I HATE "God bless America" [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #3721531 - 02/02/05 10:55 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I find it funny that things like this bug people, and on the flip side the same people are not concerned with companies like "welco" in michigan doing urine tests for NICOTINE a legal drug, and firing employees who test positive.


--------------------
"We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been. Spiral out. Keep going, going..."
Tool, Lateralus




Anything in my above post is 100% fictional.

R.I.P. Hunter S. Thompson


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
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Re: I HATE "God bless America" [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #3721548 - 02/02/05 10:59 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

It is not unconstitutional at all. I ask again for someone to point out the part of the constitution being flouted here.

As for belief in God implying one is Christian --

1) Jews believe in God
2) Muslims believe in God. "Allah" is just "God" in Arabic
3) Hindus believe in God. A whole bunch of them, actually.

etc.


Phred


--------------------


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: I HATE "God bless America" [Re: CPT_InSaNo]
    #3721553 - 02/02/05 10:59 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

It's not that people aren't concerned about it, but what do you suggest we do? It's a private company hiring private employees, none of the government's business. If you want to make an impact, lead a boycott against them or spread the news on the internt, or some other way to ruin their business, but the government should mostly stay out of the affairs of private businesses.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineCPT_InSaNo
Just anotherfreak in thefreak kingdom

Registered: 01/08/02
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Re: I HATE "God bless America" [Re: Ravus]
    #3721574 - 02/02/05 11:03 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Boycotts dont work, and spreading the news on the internet? thats what im doing. The way i feel however, is that no private business should have the right to dictate what anyone does in the privacy of their own home, considering it is both A. legal and B. not harming anyone other than the user.


--------------------
"We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been. Spiral out. Keep going, going..."
Tool, Lateralus




Anything in my above post is 100% fictional.

R.I.P. Hunter S. Thompson


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OfflineFreeLaws1_6
No Hippy Here

Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 427
Loc: Tejas
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: I HATE "God bless America" [Re: CPT_InSaNo]
    #3721579 - 02/02/05 11:04 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

CPT_InSaNo said:
I find it funny that things like this bug people, and on the flip side the same people are not concerned with companies like "welco" in michigan doing urine tests for NICOTINE a legal drug, and firing employees who test positive.




Oh that is certainly a concern to me! Fuck that! I havent heard of the specifically but that sort of action is a horrible example of how our freedom is being destroyed! (or a great example i guess...)


--------------------
Free Laws: Things to understand before I am Free

1. I am alone
2. There is Nothing
3. I must actualize myself
4. Sex is a tool for pleasure, not status
5. Dependency restricts me
6. Emotions are dangerous if not administered properly



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OfflineFreeLaws1_6
No Hippy Here

Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 427
Loc: Tejas
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: I HATE "God bless America" [Re: Phred]
    #3721607 - 02/02/05 11:09 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

pinksharkmark said:
It is not unconstitutional at all. I ask again for someone to point out the part of the constitution being flouted here.

As for belief in God implying one is Christian --

1) Jews believe in God
2) Muslims believe in God. "Allah" is just "God" in Arabic
3) Hindus believe in God. A whole bunch of them, actually.

etc.


pinky




Simply because he is inserting into politics. Again...He (being the president, who should be fighting for this separation especially) is inserting...his RELIGION...into...POLITICS. He should not be doing this...separation of church and state.

As far as god not being christian limited...that's arbitrary. He (being god) is still being inserted.


--------------------
Free Laws: Things to understand before I am Free

1. I am alone
2. There is Nothing
3. I must actualize myself
4. Sex is a tool for pleasure, not status
5. Dependency restricts me
6. Emotions are dangerous if not administered properly



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OfflinePhred
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Re: I HATE "God bless America" [Re: FreeLaws1_6]
    #3721679 - 02/02/05 11:20 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

No, he is not "inserting" religion into "politics" by saying "God bless America." In no way shape or form is he imposing his or anyone else's religion on Americans. In no way shape or form is he (or Clinton or any other president or presidential candidate who regularly make similar pronouncements in their public statements) establishing, advocating, or supporting the continuance of any state religion.

I am an atheist and a non-American, yet even I know better than to try to call the equivalent of "have a nice day" an attempt to impose religion on a country.


Phred


--------------------


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: I HATE "God bless America" [Re: CPT_InSaNo]
    #3721946 - 02/02/05 11:54 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

personally if i was a company i would not hire smokers either. think about the money people loose from smokers. this is nto a freedom thing it is an employee wasting company time thing. they are always takign breaks and shit. if they did hire them and did not allow tehm to have a smoke except on tehir own time they would probably be sued cause im sure someone would call it a disability.

maybe if peopel werent such whiney little pussies that called their lawyer before thinking, companies wouldnt have to do this....but we are.


that aside. im all for seperation of church and state. saying god bless america doesnt really strike me as a biggy. but it definatly shows that that seperation is far, i think. GW seems to speak alot of religion, or more "god", on tv. but what is religion? if you say beliefs then waht is it that the politicians do? act on their beliefs. they are suppose to act on what we, the people, want. tehy "beleive" that we want---health care, tanks, police, whatever--- and in theory they act on that. not sayign they do but idealy that is what they probably should be doing. i was going somewhere and got intereupted....probably made no sense.


--------------------
The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.


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OfflineShroomDoom
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Re: I HATE "God bless America" [Re: Phred]
    #3722102 - 02/03/05 12:15 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

pinksharkmark said:
No, he is not "inserting" religion into "politics" by saying "God bless America." In no way shape or form is he imposing his or anyone else's religion on Americans. In no way shape or form is he (or Clinton or any other president or presidential candidate who regularly make similar pronouncements in their public statements) establishing, advocating, or supporting the continuance of any state religion.

I am an atheist and a non-American, yet even I know better than to try to call the equivalent of "have a nice day" an attempt to impose religion on a country.


pinky




Hah. they are in no way shape or form imposing religion yet they are making a public statement invoking the blessing of america by the Christian God :rolleyes: (go figure). Hes not talking about allah damnit and you know it.
I hate it when people try to play it off as if politicians mentioning god is no big deal. it's seperation of church and state.
And i bet your sweet dominican republican behind that if i were president and said publicly "May Krishna's love be with you" my ass would be in a military prison in kansas where i would meet some guy named "ICE" who would make me his bitch and help participate in naked human pyramids. God Schmod. Politicians should keep the name of Any and EVERY deity out of thier dirty, lying, poor excuse for an oraface they call a mouth.


--------------------


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OfflineCatalysis
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Re: I HATE "God bless America" [Re: Phred]
    #3722179 - 02/03/05 12:28 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

pinksharkmark said:
No, he is not "inserting" religion into "politics" by saying "God bless America." In no way shape or form is he imposing his or anyone else's religion on Americans. In no way shape or form is he (or Clinton or any other president or presidential candidate who regularly make similar pronouncements in their public statements) establishing, advocating, or supporting the continuance of any state religion.

I am an atheist and a non-American, yet even I know better than to try to call the equivalent of "have a nice day" an attempt to impose religion on a country.


pinky




Exactly. When they start saying "you cannot practice any religion besides christianity", then we have a problem. I am also an atheist and as such, I think that everyone else can express their opinions as i can mine. If most people in the US are Christians and they want to vote for a christian president, then so be it. Sure, as a scientist i strongly disagree with the opposition to certain research, etc. but that doesn't mean we can say that these things cannot be allowed under the constitution. This is democracy and the majority rules. If you think you are right and it should be enforced, then you are talking about dictatorship and that is a different discussion entirely.


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: I HATE "God bless America" [Re: Catalysis]
    #3722260 - 02/03/05 12:37 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

When they start saying "you cannot practice any religion besides christianity", then we have a problem.

How about when they start legislating morality from their religion? Do we have a problem then? I'd say a big one, and it is happening now.

This is democracy and the majority rules. If you think you are right and it should be enforced, then you are talking about dictatorship and that is a different discussion entirely.

Wrong, the majority does not rule over others if it infringes on their rights established by the bill of rights. These were forged so that the majority could not impose its will on a minority.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: I HATE "God bless America" [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #3722304 - 02/03/05 12:42 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomDoom said:
I hate it when people try to play it off as if politicians mentioning god is no big deal. it's seperation of church and state.




Quote:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;



Exactly what part of that was violated? Please explain where he made a law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof?


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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