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"Making GOD laugh."
    #3720088 - 02/02/05 04:40 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

:lol: :lol: :lol:

An interview with Dr. Vijai Shankar

This illusion is there for you to rejoice in.

If he's Self-realized, can he still remain an individual?

WIE: This issue of  What Is Enlightenment? is about Buddhism and Advaita Vedanta. We've talked to several people about Advaita, but there are still many questions that we don't yet have answers to, which is why we wanted to speak with you.

DR. VIJAI SHANKAR: How would you know what is the right answer?

WIE: It's not that people have given us the wrong answers; it's just that there are certain questions that different people answer in different ways.

VS: Every way is the right way, as it stands from where it is seen.

Let us hear something authentic from your side. If you want to write about Advaita, you should know what you're looking for. Do you know what Advaita is?

WIE: Won't you please tell us?

VS: You don't know what you're looking for, then!

WIE: Well, I'm not asking only for myself. I'm asking on behalf of thousands of readers.

VS: Please don't get me wrong. What I'm trying to convey to you is that if you don't know very clearly in your mind?or your so-called mind?the exact meaning of the word "advaita," what the word stands for, how would you know whether the answer you are receiving pertains to the word you are asking about? Your issue, you say, is about Buddhism and Advaita, but do you know what Buddhism is? And do you know what advaita stands for, what advaita means? Are you familiar with Advaita? You are going to ask me questions about it today. If that is the case, then you should know what advaita means; otherwise, this interview is void.

WIE: All right. As I understand it, the teaching of Advaita Vedanta is the teaching of nondualism, the teaching that?

VS: But why is it called "nondualism?" God is one, isn't it? If God is one, which I'm particularly sure the majority will agree to without any argument, then why don't the Sanskrit sages call it "ekant," which means one, instead of advaita? Why is the word "advaita" being used? Has anybody pondered over that? Advaita means not two. Once you have pondered that, then you have no need to know anything else. Once you know what advaita means, you have transcended! You have gone beyond the mind! Why did the sages not say "one?" Why did they say "not two?" You see, my dear friend, I don't mean to put you off balance. I'm rather trying to put you back on the right path.

WIE: Thank you.

VS: But it should have some effect on you! What is the point of your collecting information, information, information and printing magazines when it does not have any effect on your life? You'll die and go, my son, like the rest of us. The body will disappear. So what is the point of stuffing your mind with knowledge? What effect does it have on you? You should have transcended by now! That should be your goal in life! The only purpose of life is to know who you are. If you think that accumulating all this knowledge is going to get you enlightenment, forget it!

But to come back to the point, the word "advaita" is used to indicate not two! And the reason why is because the mind functions in a very linear way, from point A to points B, C, D, E, F and so on in a straight line?are you with me so far? Therefore, the moment you say "one," it means that there are two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight and so on and so forth. The moment you say "one," it means the possibility exists of two. One has got meaning only with relation to the other numbers; otherwise it has none. And the moment you say "one," two has already penetrated into it. That is why they don't say "ekant." They say "NOT TWO!" And NOT TWO means what? That the many has disappeared. But this is only indicated by a process of negation.

Now?do you know the meaning of "Vedanta"?

WIE: As I understand it, Vedanta is the concluding portion of the ancient Hindu scriptures known as the Vedas?

VS: There, again, is the fallacy. That is what is the problem with all of us?you only believe what has been told to you. What is written has been interpreted in one's own way, without contemplating exactly what the word means. And therefore, whatever the master said was never understood, not even by those who heard him. These people were not really hearing him, not really listening to him. They were merely interpreting him. No one has heard the masters, full stop?nobody. Nobody has listened to the masters, and neither are you listening to me now. Do you know that?

WIE: That I'm not listening to you?

VS: Exactly. You are not listening to me, my friend. It may appear to you that you are, but you're not. All of us have been going on and on thinking we are listening. No way. Do you know what listening is? I'm sure you don't know. People never listen. You only see through your own screen of concepts. I don't mean to scare you, but you may leave this conversation knowing less than you did before. Therefore, you should always be aware as to whom you are approaching before you even venture to speak. This interview will probably end up chipping your ego to bits, and if so, it will profit you much better. You will be much more the winner than the loser. You have been losing all the time so far. But your karma is such that the time has come for you to have an effect on yourself. You should effectively realize who you are. Then everything is worthwhile.

Anyway, your idea about Vedanta also is based on what has been told to you. But the Vedas are purely prayers to God?nothing other than that, only the glorification of God in many forms, colors and symbolic gestures. And those are all purely pointers to the ultimate One, who is you. And what "Vedanta" means is, "end of the Vedas." "Anta" means "the end," okay? And the end of Vedas came about through the Upanishads. "Upanishad" does not mean a continuation of the Vedas?no, it's along a different scale completely: the Vedas tell you to renounce, and the Upanishads tell you to rejoice. Therefore, there can never be a continuation. Anyway, what else do you want to know?

"Want to know"?this is strange! I'm really surprised the way people want to know and know and know. And for how long?until you die? Stop trying to collect all this dust and dirt in your mind. What is the need? Haven't people learned about the Vedas and Advaita all this generation? How long are they going to read about it? How long are you going to print your magazine? You will die and go! Everybody will die and go! What purpose does it serve? Oh, well . . . probably it puts food on the table.

WIE: Well, at least those who read this will hear your suggestion that they should stop trying to understand and so on.

VS: I only wish?but again, they'll not be reading, they'll not be listening. Do you think they are listening? They are not. They're purely approaching the words with their own understanding, and therefore they'll only end up strengthening the understanding they already have if, according to their concepts, they think what they have heard is right. So they may think that they have listened, but they haven't listened?they've only strengthened their own conditioning. Do you understand what I'm saying?

WIE: I think so.

VS: You think so! I hope so. But your understanding is based purely on your own desires and fears, your own escapism, your own attitudes toward life. The word "attitude" means something that is fragmented, a division that is purely of the mind. But Life is not an attitude, and you cannot fragment life to fit into an attitude, because it is beyond the mind. So if you understand according to your concepts, according to your attitudes, you're cut off from life?follow me? Therefore, if you only contemplate on certain words, on what the rishis [sages] meant by them, then that is okay. Contemplate on "advaita," contemplate on "Vedanta": "Why have they used the word ?advaita?' What is the meaning?" I am speaking about contemplation, not thinking. There is a difference between thinking and contemplation. What do you think the difference is? What is the difference between thinking?

WIE: The thing is?Dr. Vijai?

VS: Yes?

WIE: I would love to have a long dialogue with you and tell you all of my ideas?

VS: Wonderful!

WIE: But for the purposes of this interview, you see, our time is rather limited?

VS: Oh, we're in time and space?that is our problem!

WIE: Yes. Precisely.

VS: It's not going to be easy for you, my son. You've not come to speak to a mind. You're trying your best to speak to the Beyond. Can the mind speak to the Beyond?

WIE: Well, let's find out.

VS: No, you can't. So far you haven't been able to. You are talking in terms of time and space and there's nothing left.

WIE: So, Dr. Vijai, this is my next question for the Beyond?

VS: Oh, go on, then! There are no answers there, my son.

WIE: My question is: In the teaching of Advaita, we often hear it said that the world is an illusion. And what I would like to learn from you is what this means.

VS: Okay. You see, the problem with us is that we think there's a world outside us and that we're living in that world. But it is not the case. You are not in the world; the world is in you. Haven't you realized?even though when you open your eyes in the morning the world appears, and when you go to sleep at night it disappears?that when you are asleep you are still existing? And that it is the same person who exists in sleep who also exists in the waking state? Therefore, if during the night the world seems to disappear, and if who you really are continues to exist when the world no longer seems to, it can only mean that you, the person you imagine yourself to be in the morning, are an illusion!

Or like this. If you look in the mirror, you see only one face, correct? You do not have the impression that you are seeing two faces, one in the mirror and one outside the mirror. You're entirely engrossed in your reflection, which you take to be yourself, and in that moment you're disassociated from your own true face, which you cannot see. But if you have a bloodstain on your face due to shaving, and if the blood appears on your reflection, you do not touch the reflection, you touch your face, correct? Similarly, the Atman [Self] reflects the entire world through the mirror of knowledge. The problem is that the "I" comes in between and touches the reflection of the real, and you get caught up with it. It is just as if you were trying to wipe the bloodstain off of the reflection in the mirror. Will you be able to do it?

WIE: No, of course not.

VS: But that's what man is trying to do. You get me?

WIE: Yes, what you're saying is very clear.

VS: Ah, very happy for you! You should go away a richer person after this interview; then I'll be happy. I won't be bothered even if you do not print anything in your magazine, which is only black ink on white paper. If anybody can read only the white page of your magazine, then I'll be happy. Not the black print, which will be only a reflection of their "I."
So that is what is called an illusion, and the world is purely an illusion. You must understand that you reflect your own world, you see your own world. But this is simply the problem that occurs when we are not interested in our other states of existence, when we are concerned only with our waking state, and not with our deep sleep state and our dream state. We exist in all three of these states, but we are only concerned with one. Such is the misery of man. But the moment one witnesses all three states of existence, then he will understand that the world is nothing but a pure illusion.
WIE: It's the opinion of some scholars we've spoken to that because Advaita subscribes to this notion of the world being an illusion, it has what they refer to as an "inherent bias against the world," with the result that ultimate realization in Advaita is often equated with escape from this world. So, if possible, I'd like to have a better understanding of how the realization you've just described would express itself in a human being's relationship to the world of time and space.

VS: Good. The first point is that there are no human beings. One has got to clearly understand that. You are a spiritual being having a human experience. Don't consider yourself to be a human being wanting spiritual experience. That's also an illusion.

Now, these people talk about "escape from the world," but what's the point? Haven't they understood that the world is an illusion? So what? If it's an illusion, then what is there to renounce? How can you renounce an illusion? Stupidity! Absolute nonsense! Illusion? What's the problem? This illusion is there for you to rejoice in. Haven't you understood me clearly so far? Imagine yourself or anybody trying to escape?where is he going to go? Even if he goes to a cave, he'll have thousands and thousands of thoughts rushing into his mind. He'll never escape.

Listen. If you go to a museum, you may see a huge painting there depicting, let's say, an old woman, a tattered old lady in rags and absolutely skin and bones with hardly a morsel of food on her plate, and a skinny-looking baby lying beside her, and a large dying dog. There may be a few cattle also starving by the side, the trees are dried up, the land is dry and everything appears so, so sickening there. But a man will stand in front of that picture and say, "What a masterpiece!" Doesn't he say that?

WIE: Yes, I suppose so.

VS: And there may also be a bleeding man with a broken leg, and still this fellow says, "What a masterpiece!" He will never say, "Oh! I feel so sorry for this lady, let me go get some pizza and feed her. This man is bleeding, let me take him to the hospital. This dog is dying, let me take it to the ASPCA or the ABCDE or whatever." No?he says, "It's a masterpiece!" Similarly, God has painted this entire panoramic, continuously changing picture that is never constant but is continuously going on and on. He has never finished his masterpiece, but all the time he's within everybody enjoying and rejoicing in it because it's purely a painting. It is the fact that you want to get yourself involved in this painting and take it to be real that is the problem which causes so much misery for one and all. Do you understand?

WIE: Well, yes, I understand what you're saying?

VS: Good for you. So there is nothing to be renounced and nothing to be done. Just be yourself and find out who you are. That is the end of every problem in life. You know, there are no problems in life?the only problem is thinking. Life is not a problem; life is a mystery. Life is a song. Life is a dance. Through this mystery lives this song, lives this dance. Enjoy the cosmic dance of Shiva! That is Advaita for you! The moment you become the song, the moment you become the dance, the moment you become the fluidity in water, the hardness in the rock, the fragrance of the flower, the moment you become the blossoming of the flower, you are Advaita. Do you get me? But suppose you see a beautiful flower, and feeling a sudden sense of beauty inside yourself you say, "What a beautiful flower!" What has happened there? Can you tell me?

WIE: Well, on one hand, it seems like a nice thing. You're appreciating something?

VS: And that is your problem! The moment you utter a word, things have stopped and you have dipped into your past. Literally, we are leading a dead life made up only of images from the past and nothing of the life in front of us as it's blossoming in its glory. We miss it. We're always in the past. We are shaking hands with a dead corpse in every minute. We think we are living life, but we are not. The beauty in the flower is God, you see? God is not a person; God is a presence. God is the godliness that is present only in this moment NOW?not in the past, not in the future. The moment you are in the mind, it isn't Advaita. But the moment you're in the moment-to-moment, that is Advaita.

WIE: Some teachers of Advaita say that one who has realized the Self has gone beyond mundane distinctions such as good and evil or right and wrong, and that such an individual is in fact accountable to no one. One such teacher has gone so far as to say that such an individual is not accountable even to God. What is your view on this?

VS: All wrong concepts again! One cannot be a "teacher of Advaita." The moment a teacher comes, it means there's a student. That's not at all Advaita, number one. The moment he says he's a teacher, run away from him. Do you understand what I'm saying?

WIE: About the teacher, yes.

VS: And what was the next point you mentioned?

WIE: That a Self-realized individual?

VS: "A Self-realized individual." If he's Self-realized, can he still remain an individual? Totally, completely misplaced! Advaita means: to stop using the same old words, not knowing what they mean. "The Self-realized individual"?that is wrong. Okay, it doesn't matter. For the sake of the interview, all right. Now what does he say?

WIE: That they're not accountable to anyone?that they've gone beyond distinctions such as good and evil, right and wrong, and are accountable not even to God.

VS: Exactly. There's nothing called "good" and "bad." That's all purely your mental concepts. It's only because you think you're a human being and God is elsewhere that you think you should be accountable to God. You think God is a magistrate? You think God is a Peeping Tom? You think God is a dictator waiting to punish you? And you say "God is everywhere." If God is everywhere, who are you, then? It is because you think you are a human being wanting spiritual experiences that you get caught in the concepts of good and bad and evil and up and down and sideways and backwards and inside and outside. But nothing like that exists even if you are not realized. If you think you've got to be accountable to God, who are you, then? You are separate from God? That means God is not everywhere. Forget it! Never say the statement, "God is everywhere." The moment you say "God is everywhere," you do not exist. Of course you do not exist. God is everywhere. You've forgotten your true nature, and because you've forgotten your true nature, you say you've got to be accountable to God. But the moment you know God, you're not there, so who are you going to account to?

Now, a Self-realized one who has transcended the mind is not accountable. Why? Because he is God. How can God be accountable to himself? There's nothing called sin, there's nothing called greed?how can these things exist in a painting? One fellow goes to a museum and says, "This painting is not good. That painting is very good." Whereas you think he is wrong: this one is good, that one is bad. Which is it? It's your own concept, your own attitude, your own mental color. Okay, good for you. Now drop all those and go beyond your mind. Then you'll know God. Then you'll know what "Self-realization" means.

Do you know what "Self-realization" means? You've got What Is Enlightenment? So what is enlightenment? You don't even know what it is when you're printing it. Fantastic! Wonderful! It's like the blind leading the blind. "Everybody walk, walk, walk; come to the precipice, have a good fall." It's like that. "Enlightened" means to realize that there's nothing called ignorance. Okay? Chew on that. This one word, if you chew on it, you will stop making any interviews with anybody. You will become that. You will transcend the mind. Do you know there's nothing called ignorance? Do you know what ignorance is? Okay, forget it. I don't want your interview to go flop. I don't want you to lose your job.

WIE: Is having this understanding that there is nothing called ignorance really the same as being fully Self-realized?or is there more to it?

VS: You see, it's like this. You have forgotten your true nature, okay? And you only have to remember your true nature?that's all there is to be done. But the way to do that is not by trying to remember it all the time, because that is, again, just another mental thought. No, you can only know your true nature by negating all that you think you are, and the moment you negate everything that you think you are, or that you've been told you are, then you'll end up with who you really are. And the moment you end up knowing who you are you will come into a state where you will never say a word.

WIE: I'm sorry?

VS: The moment you have negated everything completely, you will come into a state where you will never speak about it, never say that you are realized, or this, that or the other thing. If a bulb is lighted, does it talk about darkness? When the sun shines, does it know its own brilliance? When the flower blossoms, does it know its own fragrance? Can the tongue know its own taste? Can an eye see itself? Can a knife pierce itself? Can a thief running away from the police convert himself into a policeman and catch himself? It's like that. Got it? That is a wonderful point. Now I'm enjoying this.

WIE: If you don't speak about it, though, then how do you help others to realize what you have realized?

VS: What have I realized? I don't know. It's a stupendous joke. Oh, wonderful life, thank you for making me laugh! I don't know what people come here for. I don't teach them anything, no way! I never teach them anything. Who is there to teach? What is there to be taught? There's nothing to be taught, my friend. What are you going to teach about an illusion? My goodness, this is such silly nonsense. I don't know why people carry on this way. I got a lovely seven-page fax yesterday from a very fine gentleman who came to sit near this body for some time. "To sit in Vijai's presence is a unique experience"?that's what he says, anyway. "He makes no demands upon his audience whatsoever and because of this the natural response to him is one of complete openness, a state surprising to discover for many people. With Vijai, in this arena of oneness, duality evaporates, giving way to gradual communion. His is a sort of bottom-line approach to spirituality; regardless of the questions addressed to him, he will bring the questioner back to this one, true blissful state, which they feel happy about." So you see, it just happens. I don't do anything. At all.

WIE: And what is it that happens?

VS: I don't know. They say they feel happy. Everybody goes to the cinema to get mentally excited, don't they? So people probably come here to feel happy. Why do you want to be happy? Can you tell me that? It's because happiness is your true nature. But the place where you're looking for it is wrong. It's not out there, it's within you. So probably they look within themselves when they come here. But I don't know what happens. They ask me a few mundane questions like the ones you're asking, and I just set their bearings right, that's all.

WIE: Thank you. One last question?

VS: Is there anything called the last one? If you say it is the last one, then you should never ask any more questions in your life. Okay, go ahead!

WIE: Are there any actions that we could say with certainty a realized person would not commit? A violent act, for example, such as killing, or an act of dishonesty, or an act that caused harm to another human being?

VS: Listen. Is there an act of dishonesty? Is there really a killing? Is there really a crime? Think about it. Ponder about it before you even make such a statement. How would the mind ever know the one who has transcended the mind? How could it? It is purely an extension of the finite into the infinite. So the one thing that can be said of him is that he will be unpredictable. You cannot predict him because he is suspended in the now.

WIE: Do you consider it a possibility, then, that such an individual, being unpredictable in this way, actually could commit an act

VS: For you it is an act. For him it isn't. That's where you make a mistake. There are no acts outside there, my friend. It only appears to you so. You are attached to it. You think it is happening there. You think him to be doing it. Let's not bother about it. It's all just happening. Everything is as it is. It is only this painting, and it will go on. You will think something is happening outside?a wicked act, a sinful act, a violent act, but that is your problem. The Bhagavad Gita says: "What is happening is happening for the good. What has happened is also good. What will happen is also good. You are not the doer. The Lord is the doer. He's watching it all." This is the way of life. Life is a mystery; live it, don't interpret it. The moment you interpret it, you've gone off the track. There is just God manifesting everywhere, my goodness sake! He is just enjoying himself. I'll tell you what: Do you want to make God laugh?

WIE: Sure. I feel like that's what we've been doing for the past hour anyway.

VS: Do you know what? If you tell Him your plans, you'll make God laugh. Tell him your plans, and God will have a mighty good laugh.

Let's not think, then. Let's be in the here and now. That is sufficient. That is just sufficient. You are a spiritual being having a human experience. Stop it now, my son. Stop it, and everything will be fine for you. I would love to see you in a different state, in your real state, when I meet you next. That'd be nice. There's no thing someday you're going to become. If you're going to become something then that'll be the end?death. Everybody will become who they are. What's the problem in it? I don't see any problem.

Listen?one thing. Did you enjoy yourself?

WIE: Yes. Very much so.

VS: That's very important. I'll tell you what: Throw the entire interview in the dustbin! What is more important than to enjoy yourself? Think on that enjoyment. Face that enjoyment. Be in that enjoyment. That will do you more good.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Female User Gallery

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Re: "Making GOD laugh." [Re: dorkus]
    #3722716 - 02/03/05 12:07 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I think I frequently make God laugh.  Life is but humor, you know.  If we assume that God created life, don't you think He's laughing???


I'm taking a light stance on this, btw.  I don't think God is ALWAYS laughing.  I think He cries sometimes, too.

The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: "Making GOD laugh." [Re: Frog]
    #3722974 - 02/03/05 01:00 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

that's really cool, I love how cheeky Shankar is

You are a spiritual being having a human experience. Don't consider yourself to be a human being wanting spiritual experience.

I like that too

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Eggshell Walker

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Re: "Making GOD laugh." [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3723177 - 02/03/05 01:56 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Now that you understand, my one-liners are no longer necessary.

Humor be with you.  :tongue2:


The proof is in the pudding.

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half naked andfull witted
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Re: "Making GOD laugh." [Re: Swami]
    #3724234 - 02/03/05 10:42 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

i made brandonm boyd laugh once

"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd

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Re: "Making GOD laugh." [Re: dorkus]
    #13382789 - 10/24/10 10:14 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Great post.

Now i'm bound to have good dreams. Thanks!:grin:


it truly is an illusion- your senses are just perceiving the varying vibrations in different ways- its holography; a representation.

"Nothing" is easy - Mooji

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some kinda love
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Re: "Making GOD laugh." [Re: wondercat]
    #13383020 - 10/24/10 11:17 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

its 5 years old.

but i also enjoyed it.

dripping with fantasy

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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: "Making GOD laugh." [Re: quinn]
    #13383100 - 10/24/10 11:39 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I thought it smelled a little musty.


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The Minstrel in the Gallery

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Re: "Making GOD laugh." [Re: Frog]
    #13384031 - 10/25/10 07:23 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)


Frog said:
I think I frequently make God laugh.  Life is but humor, you know.  If we assume that God created life, don't you think He's laughing???


I'm taking a light stance on this, btw.  I don't think God is ALWAYS laughing.  I think He cries sometimes, too.

God mostly picks his nose, farts, and tortures small animals to get his laughs.:satansmoking:

"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: "Making GOD laugh." [Re: Icelander]
    #13384041 - 10/25/10 07:30 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks Wondercat for reviving a 5 year old thread....

I do like the article though

All drugs should be legal

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We be jammin', mon!
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Re: "Making GOD laugh." [Re: dorkus]
    #13384970 - 10/25/10 01:00 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)


VS: That's very important. I'll tell you what: Throw the entire interview in the dustbin! What is more important than to enjoy yourself? Think on that enjoyment. Face that enjoyment. Be in that enjoyment. That will do you more good.

7 days later VS runs to his mailbox for his check for the interview.

"God dammit, it's not here yet!". :crankey:


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Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 4,245
Last seen: 6 years, 12 days
Re: "Making GOD laugh." [Re: dorkus]
    #13385255 - 10/25/10 01:56 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)


This guy gets it. I'd love to hang out with him and talk about random nonsense....
no questions.. no .. debates.. no philosophy..
just chill for a bit.

while he speaks , in the middle of his sentence .. i would fart !
then i would say to him
Do not utter a word. The moment you utter a word, things have stopped and you have dipped into your past where the fart smells bad.
Rejoice in it !

We would both start laughing like maniacs until we turn into stone.



All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

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