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OfflineSunshinePounder
The Girl withthe Sun in HerEyes

Registered: 11/19/04
Posts: 288
Loc: Peace Man!
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
ok, I'm confused...
    #3719709 - 02/02/05 05:20 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

about casing materials. Here's my sitch: I understand pH levels and buffers.
I understand the different bases.
I can definately get Jiffy mix, or just plain peat, which, I would probly rather do, cuz the verm in the jiffy looks spent.
I got a couple of maybes on coco coir.
I still haven't located oyster shells (but I think this feed store might carry 'em for chickens)
I can get hydrated lime (short term buffer) pellated lime (chunks)
would a mixture of egg shells and hydrated lime work fair, mixed with peat or jiffy & verm?
I need to get a pH tester so, I can get a feel for what I'm doin'.
Any comments would help...

TYIA


--------------------
My [url=www.http://tinyurl.com/6valr target=_blank]Unitarian Jihad Name[/url] is: Sister Claymore of The Short Path
Get yours

If I was the sun, I'd look for the shade~Liberty

Baby I love you, and you love me. Let's love each other to eternity~


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: ok, I'm confused... [Re: SunshinePounder]
    #3720113 - 02/02/05 06:47 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

What are you going to case(PF cakes, WBS)?

How big?

Have you done casings before?


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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OfflineMushroomFriend
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Re: ok, I'm confused... [Re: SunshinePounder]
    #3720182 - 02/02/05 07:09 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Yes eggshells and hydrated lime work fine. crushed eggshells for bit longer term (prepare casing material in larger quantities so the shells can do their work, when you need casing material teh shells already did soem work)

The peat/verm mix I used is like 90/10 and it works fine.

If you really live in Netherlands, shops like "intratuin" or "boerenbond" have what you need!

- wheat straw
- PH buffering
- wbs
- peat
- geolite
- cow dung, worm shit etc


--------------------


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InvisibleATWAR
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Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 1,640
Loc: #108768 in line...
Re: ok, I'm confused... [Re: MushroomFriend]
    #3720287 - 02/02/05 07:41 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomFriend said:
(prepare casing material in larger quantities so the shells can do their work, when you need casing material teh shells already did soem work)





Huh?
What work exactly do the egg shells do when prepared in advance?
I assume they only do it when you are not looking?








In reality, the egg shells will continue to buffer the Ph while the casing is alive and in use (long-term). That is, while the mycelium grows and secretes urea (and other metabolites), the egg shells will help to eliminate the lowering of the Ph caused by the waste...


--------------------
To give is to live...



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OfflineMushroomFriend
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Re: ok, I'm confused... [Re: ATWAR]
    #3720323 - 02/02/05 07:51 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

As you say, it is a long term buffer so if prepared in advance teh casing material will have absorbed some of the calcium elements from the shells.
If you make it now and case it now the eggshells wont buffer much yet, that takes time. All depending on how fine they were crushed.

Maybe you understand it... :lol:


--------------------


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OfflineSunshinePounder
The Girl withthe Sun in HerEyes

Registered: 11/19/04
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Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
Re: ok, I'm confused... [Re: MushroomFriend]
    #3720444 - 02/02/05 08:19 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

hmmm, well thanks, that helps.
Should I put eggshells in blender or just crush them? I think I can search for like eggshell sterilization and such.
Also, any suggestions for eggshell and hydrated lime amounts?
I need to go with what I got just in case I can't get the proper materials (coco, oyster, lime)

Thanx every one :wink:


--------------------
My [url=www.http://tinyurl.com/6valr target=_blank]Unitarian Jihad Name[/url] is: Sister Claymore of The Short Path
Get yours

If I was the sun, I'd look for the shade~Liberty

Baby I love you, and you love me. Let's love each other to eternity~


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InvisibleATWAR
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Loc: #108768 in line...
Re: ok, I'm confused... [Re: MushroomFriend]
    #3720519 - 02/02/05 08:32 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomFriend said:
if prepared in advance teh casing material will have absorbed some of the calcium elements from the shells.




Are you sure about this?
Where did you find this information?


:rolleyes:


Egg shells and oyster shells are not very soluble in water. I do not see how they would do anything to the casing mix if prepared in advance and allowed to sit (age). It is simply used to off-set the lowering of Ph over time as the mycelium secretes acidic waste products... This "long-term" buffering action is seen when the casing layer is colonized, not when the casing is prepared. You cannot use oyster shells or egg shells alone to raise the Ph for this exact reason...


--------------------
To give is to live...



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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: ok, I'm confused... [Re: ATWAR]
    #3720563 - 02/02/05 08:40 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I think i agree w/ war...:shrug:


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OfflineSunshinePounder
The Girl withthe Sun in HerEyes

Registered: 11/19/04
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Re: ok, I'm confused... [Re: ATWAR]
    #3721082 - 02/02/05 09:58 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

> You cannot use oyster shells or egg shells alone to raise the Ph for this exact reason

go on, please, I'm learnin' from this. I wouldn't know how to use hydrated lime. If I get to the point where I need to search again, let me know. I'm about to soon.

Thanks


--------------------
My [url=www.http://tinyurl.com/6valr target=_blank]Unitarian Jihad Name[/url] is: Sister Claymore of The Short Path
Get yours

If I was the sun, I'd look for the shade~Liberty

Baby I love you, and you love me. Let's love each other to eternity~


Edited by SunshinePounder (02/02/05 10:01 PM)


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InvisibleJettaJay
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Re: ok, I'm confused... [Re: SunshinePounder]
    #3722103 - 02/03/05 12:16 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Bump .... cause I wanna see more replies .... I AM LEARNING TOO DAMN IT


--------------------
I saw a little green light buzzing around in a tree, and it dawned on me that "they" were here
~~~LouiseLouise




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InvisibleATWAR
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Registered: 01/26/03
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Re: ok, I'm confused... [Re: JettaJay]
    #3722381 - 02/03/05 12:53 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Here should be plenty to keep you occupied for awhile:

http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/8
http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/3288
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/565456/an/0/page/0
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1597724/an/0/page/0
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1041528/an/0/page/0


At the risk of sounding rude, I suggest you search, read the archives, and check the Shroomery grow guides if you intend to learn anything. Therein lies all the information you shall require. If not, come back and make a post with a specific question. There really is no reason why another member should search for this information for you...


Quote:

SunshinePounder said:
go on, please, I'm learnin' from this. I wouldn't know how to use hydrated lime. If I get to the point where I need to search again, let me know. I'm about to soon.




To use hydrated lime, you really need some Ph testing strips, or a meter. It is pretty much impossible to guess the starting Ph of your casing material, and even harder to estimate how much hydrated lime to add. You need to test, adjust, test, adjust, etc. until you get it right...

If you are planning to use a coir based mix (rather than a peat based mix) there is no reason for adding hydrated lime. Oyster shells, egg shells, or limestone grit is all that is needed (and it is optional, not necessarily required)...


--------------------
To give is to live...



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InvisibleJettaJay
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Re: ok, I'm confused... [Re: ATWAR]
    #3722636 - 02/03/05 01:48 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ATWAR said:
Here should be plenty to keep you occupied for awhile:

http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/8
http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/3288
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/565456/an/0/page/0
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1597724/an/0/page/0
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1041528/an/0/page/0


At the risk of sounding rude, I suggest you search, read the archives, and check the Shroomery grow guides if you intend to learn anything. Therein lies all the information you shall require. If not, come back and make a post with a specific question. There really is no reason why another member should search for this information for you...








Ok first off I asked noone to look shit up for me .... I was bumping because the replies were interresting. I like to see everyone opinion. I know how to use the search function I have been here long enough to learn to search ... I do read the grow guides and I also read different teks. Like I said earlier in my rebute I just like to gather opinions from everyone. Thanks you that is all.


~~ JJ :gd_icon: :heart: Shine On


--------------------
I saw a little green light buzzing around in a tree, and it dawned on me that "they" were here
~~~LouiseLouise




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OfflineSunshinePounder
The Girl withthe Sun in HerEyes

Registered: 11/19/04
Posts: 288
Loc: Peace Man!
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
Re: ok, I'm confused... [Re: ATWAR]
    #3722698 - 02/03/05 02:03 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

atwar said:

Here should be plenty to keep you occupied for awhile:

http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/8
http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/3288
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/565456/an/0/page/0
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1597724/an/0/page/0
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1041528/an/0/page/0


At the risk of sounding rude, I suggest you search, read the archives, and check the Shroomery grow guides if you intend to learn anything. Therein lies all the information you shall require. If not, come back and make a post with a specific question. There really is no reason why another member should search for this information for you...




Very good point. I have read all of these pages and more, I find it ironic that you would acuse me of having other members do my searching, when I'm sittin here getting pummeled with pm's about ppl askin me about terrariums and all kinds of other crap, when I know this information that I am giving out from just plain readin it.

So, let me get back o/t:
I am confused because I was gonna use Jiffy mix in the first place, or peat mixed with verm. In the pages to the links that you so kindly gave me, it says that if the pH is too low, my casing won't pin.
I haven't located coco yet (within 46 mi. of me at pet smart)
And I havent located oyster shell either.
Now, after reading those pages and more, I am pretty sure that if I case with jiffy/verm or peat/verm, the results will be less than desirable.

first you said:
Quote:

This "long-term" buffering action is seen when the casing layer is colonized, not when the casing is prepared. You cannot use oyster shells or egg shells alone to raise the Ph for this exact reason...




then, you said:
Quote:

Oyster shells, egg shells, or limestone grit is all that is needed (and it is optional, not necessarily required)...





I will get the coco, if I have to travel 46 mi for it.
I just wanted to know what my options to coco are, as I am not familiar with pH levels.

then you said :
Quote:

There really is no reason why another member should search for this information for you...




and I thought that really sucked. :nonono:

oops, sorry, you weren't talking to me :blush:
I am confused. well, I'm glad he bumped it, I need to learn more about this.
as I have learned alot already, thanks

:peace:


--------------------
My [url=www.http://tinyurl.com/6valr target=_blank]Unitarian Jihad Name[/url] is: Sister Claymore of The Short Path
Get yours

If I was the sun, I'd look for the shade~Liberty

Baby I love you, and you love me. Let's love each other to eternity~


Edited by SunshinePounder (02/03/05 02:54 AM)


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InvisibleATWAR
Connoisseur

Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 1,640
Loc: #108768 in line...
Re: ok, I'm confused... [Re: SunshinePounder]
    #3722999 - 02/03/05 03:08 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

When one posts a question it is one thing. But to post something along the lines of "keep the replies coming, I am learning" suggests to me that the person expects people to post information on the subject at random rather than researching the problem on their own. This is like asking "tell me more about casings, I want to know". With no specific direction to continue the discussion, how can one proceed? Frankly, I could care less about what other members think about me, my posts, or how they interpret what I say. I am not here to make friends or enemies, but to share information and help people. But, it is impossible for me to help someone when I do not know what information they need... I hope you see my point... (and in case you didn't notice, my reply was to JettaJay. I do not see how I was accusing you of anything)




Now, back on topic...
I know nothing about the composition of jiffy mix, nor of its effectiveness as a casing layer (although I do know it is peat moss and vermiculite based). Most soil mixes that use peat moss as the primary ingredient have some sort of Ph buffer already mixed in. The only way to know the exact Ph of your casing mix is to test it using test strips, or a Ph meter...

Peat based casing mixes need to have some sort of Ph adjustment done to them at makeup as they are usually far too acidic (even for plants, thus the reason for buffers in potting soil mixes). Coir based substrates do not require this as they are generally neutral (or very close, depends on the water used to hydrate it). Then there is usually a long-term buffer that can be applied to either mix, usually in the form of crushed oyster shells, egg shells, or limestone grit. This long-term buffer is generally optional provided the casing layer is within the proper range for the species you are cultivating...



You should consider yourself lucky. I have to travel much farther to obtain coir... Pet smart should have both coir and crushed oyster shells...


--------------------
To give is to live...



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Invisiblemetasin
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Re: ok, I'm confused... [Re: ATWAR]
    #3723050 - 02/03/05 03:23 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ATWAR said:
When one posts a question it is one thing. But to post something along the lines of "keep the replies coming, I am learning" suggests to me that the person expects people to post information on the subject at random rather than researching the problem on their own. This is like asking "tell me more about casings, I want to know". With no specific direction to continue the discussion, how can one proceed?





Ok, first off my reply is not directed to anyone in this post but at the Mush Cult forum in general. ATWAr, you just summed up the way I've been thinking in general here for a little bit now. You the same posts all the f'n time, if a n00b would search, read a tek, or go past the first page or three on the forum at least 50% of the posts on here wouldn't be here. I haven't even been reg'd here for that long and its bothering me already. I don't mind trying to help someone if I can, but sometimes to me it seems pointless because the ones that post the same question thats been posted a hundred times already, aren't gonna probably be around for too long. An endless cycle.
/ramble

::edit::
or someones having a lot of fun with puppets


Edited by recondite (02/03/05 03:55 AM)


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OfflineMushroomFriend
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Re: ok, I'm confused... [Re: ATWAR]
    #3723474 - 02/03/05 05:49 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Its logic.

If you dont crush them it takes much longer for the shells to penetrate the soil. Hence the long term, its is kinda stored. Then you have to wait weeks if not longer before something in PH changes. The more crushed they are the more instant they work. The more crushed the less "stored" and the more available to the mushrooms and other plants.

I use garden calcium, a sort of powder. Mixed through the peat real good it is an instand worker buffering immediatly.

Also I read very often you can use crushed oystershells alone as a PH buffer in teh casing.

But as mentioned I use garden calcium.


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: ok, I'm confused... [Re: MushroomFriend]
    #3723644 - 02/03/05 08:40 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Crush the eggshells? That won't do much of anything guys! Powderize them and they will be available as a long term buffer trust me. Chucks of eggshells don't breakdown for along time, A real long time! Long after your 20th flush to put it simply. GL


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
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OfflineMushroomFriend
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Re: ok, I'm confused... [Re: SunshinePounder]
    #3723659 - 02/03/05 08:48 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

thats what I said, when using crushed eggshells put them in some time before you need the casing.
Depending on how fine you crushed (powderize if you like) them it will take some time before it has effect on PH...


--------------------


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: ok, I'm confused... [Re: MushroomFriend]
    #3723977 - 02/03/05 11:07 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomFriend said:
Its logic.

If you dont crush them it takes much longer for the shells to penetrate the soil. Hence the long term, its is kinda stored. Then you have to wait weeks if not longer before something in PH changes. The more crushed they are the more instant they work. The more crushed the less "stored" and the more available to the mushrooms and other plants.

I use garden calcium, a sort of powder. Mixed through the peat real good it is an instand worker buffering immediatly.

Also I read very often you can use crushed oystershells alone as a PH buffer in teh casing.

But as mentioned I use garden calcium.




Thats not how they work. I've been reading up on dolimite lime for some gardening usage..they say that no matter how much you add, it will put the pH at 7. It will rasie it if need be or lower it...it will put it to 7 everytime though. So I think the long term buffers wouldnt doo any more to start working since they arent really doing anything to begin with other then holding the pH right at 7. The pH won't go up or down the longer the casing mix sits there whether its in a jar or applied to a casing with mushrooms growing through it secreting acid. I think this is what Atwar was getting at...aging it wont do anything..its ready to use after mixing it in and PCing (or sterilizing however)


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Invisibletripndicular
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Re: ok, I'm confused... [Re: hyphae]
    #3724074 - 02/03/05 11:46 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

hyphae said:
Crush the eggshells? That won't do much of anything guys! Powderize them and they will be available as a long term buffer trust me. Chucks of eggshells don't breakdown for  along time, A real long time! Long after your 20th flush to put it simply. GL




Thanx Hyphae that was exactally what I was going to say .
There are much better more reliable sources of buffering agents , ones that do the job when you need it done , like in 2nd and 3rd flushes .
20th flush LOL now you got all thees poor souls wondering "how do I get 20 flushes?" :wink:


--------------------
Any information I give is not intended to aide you in the production of potentialy illegal substances !None of my exp comes from growing illegal varities , so take it as you will .
So with that said here is our mission statement .

Then the priest fell into a trance or swoon,& said unto the Queen of heaven ; Write unto us the ordeals; write unto us the rituals; write unto us the law !


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