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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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Beyond Level 5?
    #371912 -

Hi all,

Sorry I couldn't find a more on-topic fourm to post this to. I was just wondering, has anyone ever taken an unusually large dose of shrooms? How about an extended dose? Is there anything out there in the shroom world beyond level 5 such as "Plateu Sigma" with DXM? If so, what could be expected from such a dose?


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Re: Beyond Level 5? [Re: The_Explorer]
    #371957 -

of course there is "beyond level 5," you just won't be able to think about it when you hit it (loss of ego) i dont really know how far you can go on a trip, but at a certain point, when the world no longer exists in any form, i think that's when you know you've reached the top. but you won't realize it because you won't have an ego anymore; you will no longer exist, so you won't be able to even think about how far you've gone. of course this is only what I've heard, I haven't experienced it and don't really care to for that matter.

We're all MADD here...


--------------------
So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. - Galatians 5:16

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Re: Beyond Level 5? [Re: The_Explorer]
    #372940 -

"If you've never gone too far...You'll never know how far you can go." I think T.S. Elliot wrote that. Good in almost any of lifes circumstances.


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Re: Beyond Level 5? [Re: drugged_monkey]
    #372955 -

Thats a nice quote there..

Catch me @ lunarpages.com/traum


--------------------
Oh what a tangled web we weave when we practise to deceive..

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Re: Beyond Level 5? [Re: The_Explorer]
    #373020 -

I don't think you would want to go beyond level 5. I don't even like a level 4, because I feel that I loose control a bit; I like to be in control, so usually I do a level 2-3 trip...

Beyond level 5, you have no control. You'll have to tie yourself down to a bed and go to the washroom before tripping, or else you might walk into oncoming traffic while shitting your pants.

LEGALIZE...


--------------------
LEGALIZE...

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Re: Beyond Level 5? [Re: The_Explorer]
    #373264 -

I have had a trip beyond level 5 before, but I never posted it here because some people think that you are just bragging or dick-waving when talking about heroic doses.

One time I took about 80 grams of *very* potent blued wet mushrooms - note, 80 gs wet not 80 gs dry - blended up with ice and orange juice. The drink was this nasty gray color and was full of bubbles, and there was a LOT of it in order to try to dilute the taste. I would guesstimate probably 32 ounces of liquid - that's a lot to drink all at once. Anyway I got it down and a friend drove me to a park I like to go to. Stuff started to get extremely strange on the way there, as the pattern of dots on the upholstery in his back seat started swimming around and seemed to be making words that streamed from right to left, like those LED (LCD?) signs you see in airports and stuff, with the moving words. Also the strangest thing that ever happened to me on a trip happened on the way to the park - I looked out the car window at the clouds and this one cloud honest to God turned into a Sphinx - like in Egypt - and was smiling at me :-) That was hilarious. The drive there seemed to last for a number of hours, though it was only about an hour. Once there, we found a good comfortable place to sit under a tree at this bench. Everywhere I looked, all the plants and trees were just changing very rapidly. Sometimes they seemed to age years in minutes, sometimes they just moved and ebbed like visuals you might normally get. I had never before or since gotten visuals this intense in the very wide open outdoors, though.

Time dilated a LOT more than normal - at one point I lapsed into one of those deepening spirals of thoughts and I suddenly snapped out of it and asked my friend, "When was the last time I said something verbally to you?" and his reply, "Less than a minute" pretty much rocked me.

Needless to say I don't remember a whole lot of my thoughts from the trip, I was just on some other planet. I couldn't even put words in a sentence together and if my friend asked me a question I had to have him repeat it many times just to figure out what he was asking. It was like by the fourth or fifth word I had completely forgotten how the sentence began. I had heavy audio hallucinations too, which I usually don't get and in fact never have before or since. Some things (not most though) that I heard in the park echoed in my head for a while. Everything was very beautiful, and I got the distinct impression that the trees and the plants were trying to talk to me. I often get this impression.

I absolutely forgot the normal world, too, which was a first. At one point he asked me a question (I like to have him ask me stuff during trips to elicit some interesting thought) about what I thought about my normal life, going to work and mowing the lawn, and I told him immediately, "I don't remember that life at all" and I couldn't. Not till I was coming down did I suddenly remember that I had a job and owned a house. It was like this moment here in the park was the only existence I had EVER had.
Probably the most unusual part came near the end - my friend stood up and said it was time to leave. I was definitely coming down but was still way up there, and found to my concern (not fear though) that I had absolutely forgotten how to walk. I let him know this and he tried to explain it to me, and demonstrated with a few steps. I just simply could *not* figure out how to walk. It had something to do with energy - it was like I couldn't imagine how much energy and momentum that I had to create to walk. It didn't seem possible. I resigned myself to never walking again. Finally, though, after a full 2 minutes or so of his trying to show me how to walk, I figured I could probably just fake it, so I got up and walked with him. We left pretty much without event, except that everywhere I looked everything was changing very fast and it was a lot harder than sitting watching it happen. I kept stopping and turning around, for some reason which I can't explain now - it somehow kept amazing me that we were travelling across distances. Finally we got to the car - it took me quite a while and a struggle to figure out how to duck down and get in (all this while a few little old ladies were just watching me) but finally I did, and the drive home was pretty uneventful as I descended rapidly.

All in all, an extremely interesting day, but I don't intend to ever do that again. High doses can be interesting, but it is literally impossible to bring anything back. You can record yourself or write stuff down, but even so you still can't later remember anything that you meant. This was definitely a beyond-level-5.



---- Cantara

Commanding in another world
Suddenly you hear and see
This magic new dimension
- Queensryche, "Silent Lucidity"



--------------------
---- Cantara

[green]Shroomism, please don't delete this thread![/green]

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Re: Beyond Level 5? [Re: cantara]
    #373337 -

You have all forgotten the important point here..

When you hit a level 5 trip, you have lost connection with reality..if you have lost connection with reality, there is no more, you cannot go further..

Or at least thats how it works in my books..correct me if wrong ;)

Catch me @ codred.xs3.com


--------------------
Oh what a tangled web we weave when we practise to deceive..

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Re: Beyond Level 5? [Re: TrauM]
    #373611 -

If you are going by the trip level scale used in the FAQ on this site...then you CAN'T go beyond level 5. Level 5 is the total loss of ego and reality.

-----------------------
You haven't lived until you've hotboxed an igloo...


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Beyond Level 5? [Re: trendal]
    #373614 -

Yeah but don't you reckon that whole level thing is pretty worthless?

It seems totally artificial to define 5 arbitary levels. I could define 3 or 300 depending on how I look at things.



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Re: Beyond Level 5? [Re: trendal]
    #373616 -

i think there is definitely beyond a level 5

:frown:


--------------------
"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." John 15:5

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Re: Beyond Level 5? [Re: NDK]
    #373638 -

Well of course the definition of levels is arbitrary. But that doesn't mean it's not usefull.

All I was saying is that if we are going by the 1-2-3-4-5 level scale I usually see, there is no point in asking "what's beyond level 5?" because, measured by the scale there is nothing beyond level 5.

It would be the same thing as taking the Kelvin temperature scale and asking "well what is colder than 0 degrees?". There's no point in asking, because by definition of the scale you are using, there isn't anything colder than 0.

I know what people are trying to ask. They want to know how far a trip can go. What's the limit? All I'm saying is that you can't ask what's beyond level 5 on a scale that ends at level 5 and where level 5 is defined as the furthest you can go.

-----------------------
You haven't lived until you've hotboxed an igloo...


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Beyond Level 5? [Re: trendal]
    #373765 -

The trip scale is really used for explaining to people the intesity of a trip, rather than written in stone indications of tripping experiences. I've had some trips where they we're only 2-3 visually but easilyt 4 mentally.


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Re: Beyond Level 5? [Re: Rainbow]
    #373772 -

I wasn't arguing that. Look at the description of Level 5:

Level 5: Total loss of visual connection with reality. The senses cease to function in the normal way. Total loss of ego. Merging with space, other objects or the universe. The loss of reality becomes so severe that it defies explanation. The earlier levels are relatively easy to explain in terms of measureable changes in perception and thought patterns. This level is different in that the actual universe within which things are normally perceived, ceases to exist! Satori enlightenment (and other such labels) (**).

Maybe it's just me...but the only way you could go further than that is to die. THE ULTIMATE TRIP!

-----------------------
You haven't lived until you've hotboxed an igloo...


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Beyond Level 5? [Re: trendal]
    #5415108 -

200 wet grams of subaeruginosa.
that was insane. The only thing I distinctly remember was just the nothing in me. The nothingness. The entire space, time, reality, ceasing to exist. I was nothing and never was anything. Never to be, never have been... and neither has anything else except this one floating atom telling all to nothing that never was.
I can't really say 'beyond level 5', maybe at the very TOP of level 5 :wink:

and this indescribable feeling like I had shat myself, is what made it a bad trip, but it was good in the end, if that makes sense

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Re: Beyond Level 5? [Re: indica]
    #5416354 -

I'm not accustomed to the whole level description.But which I would like to know more about.

I have tripped for like fourteen days before and during that time I had a quarter pounds for friends and personal that lasted like a month or so. I can honestly say that it took me a month or so afterwards to get back to "normal". And some moments of serious  depression came along with that journey back to "normal" as well.

Cantara I have also seen the cloud folk. Its funny that you mentioned Egyptian. Back about 15 years ago I lived at a "hippie"house and we tripped like nobody's business. What a blessed experience that was. But I also took a ten year break.LOL
But yeah back in those days I used to always see cloud folk that usually had Egyptian head dresses and some would be riding in ships and would have large vase's that they would pour out over the ships side.And others rode horses and other creatures and carried flags or large crest like objects mounted on poles.And in the early mornings right as the sun came up a huge being that would have been at least a hundred of feet tall walked with the sunrise."He" carried a pouch and a telescopic stick of sorts. As it waked with the sunrise it would extend its right arm and the stick would telescope out to a certain location and then retract back and he would then place it within the pouch. He even got me one day. It was kewl!

As for tripping into another realm.
That was last years Bonnaroo experience.
To make short. I was in three distinct worlds. Each had its own iconic foundation of beliefs yet each complimented the other. I seemed to  mainly be a observer and each time I tried to say my opinion or interact on that level I was transported to one of the other levels were my action I first did was something different than what I intended yet similar to the previous intention.What a amazing journey.The last memory I had was slowly working my way back into this realm and then once I said to myself I was back I was rushed by three or four medics and woke up two days later in my van with a ball of cotton and tape on my arm. I left there within a few hours after waking :smile:
But I do look forward to going back this year and chatting with the medics as to what my behavior was. I hope they have the same people there this year!

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Re: Beyond Level 5? [Re: Something]
    #5416608 -

Bonnaroo? Is that in Aus somewhere? Music festival?
Like Tryptamind fest or something...?

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Re: Beyond Level 5? [Re: indica]
    #5416861 -

Bonnaroo....Smack dab in the middle of Tennessee

http://www.bonnaroo.com/2006/

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Re: Beyond Level 5? [Re: Something]
    #5417057 -

lol not in Aus like I thought.

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Re: Beyond Level 5? [Re: indica]
    #5417225 -

I think...

- If you think you have had a level 5, but think you could go further : then you havnt had a level 5.

Maybe a 4, maybe a 4 that some-times foated in and out of a 5.
But, once you lose a visual connection to reality, and concepts of self / time / thought / language / meaning all fall apart leaving you with nothing but 'being' - and not even being able to comprhehend that, whats past that?

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Re: Beyond Level 5? [Re: kaniz]
    #5417242 -

comatose and/or death?

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Re: Beyond Level 5? [Re: indica]
    #5425791 -

On level 5 journeys has anyone experienced floating through vast space with columns spaced like the Parthenon's?

Edited by Something (03/21/06 03:40 PM)

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Re: Beyond Level 5? [Re: Something]
    #5425909 -

had that in a k-hole once.

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Re: Beyond Level 5? [Re: Something]
    #5425925 -

this is an easy way to see it.

level 5 trip is 5 and up. so a level 1000 trip would still technically be called level 5. i think from 1 - 4 its easy to categorize events, effects, thoughts, etc. from 5 and up, its an insane, uncontrollable, and illogical event. its kinda hard to categorize chaos.


--------------------
i can speel... im just too lazy to sppelcheck.

My first trip (good read) - Speed Leaching Poo! - My Second Trip (with art)

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Re: Beyond Level 5? [Re: rDr4g0n]
    #5426438 -

is k hole ketamin? I did that crap as a kid.What a drunken acid trip that was!

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Re: Beyond Level 5? [Re: Something]
    #5432635 -

if anything is beyond level 5, it would probably the 40dry gram experiment report i read, crazy shit
http://leda.lycaeum.org/?ID=16442


--------------------
-peace

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Re: Beyond Level 5? [Re: TrauM]
    #5435255 -

ive had a trip like that  with A LOT OF ACID..  the stroy is like this..  i had a vial with a thinn layer of acid (i had taken the previous 100 hits in 3 motnhs as well with selling them..  so instead of doing the mistake of risning and taking a huge dose cause of the residue on the side of the glass.  i pretty much sipped it plus the acid on the side of the glass...  it just kept going deeper and deeper..  kind of like i was walking into water in somes sensee  like some part of me..  i felt water around my skin  and felt like i couldnt breather that well.  the hal;lucinations are so vivid and complex and took forms that would take a whole boof cesribing them)  total ego loss as well..  you arre connected into a stream of coonciousness and knowledge than my personality, characteristics, .  your mind is going 900mph  ..  100x times normal thinking and rate ..  a billion sentences between your words when yopure speaking at me)  people lokok surreal.  staged moviesh.  seeijg all these parents that look like the were from florida with a little 8 yr old fat kid on vacation

TrauM said:
You have all forgotten the important point here..
<br>
<br> When you hit a level 5 trip, you have lost connection with reality..if you have lost connection with reality, there is no more, you cannot go further..
<br>
<br> Or at least thats how it works in my books..correct me if wrong :wink:<br><br>Catch me @ codred.xs3.com



--------------------



"The psychedelic experience is just the temporary disruption of psychophysics and the telepathic emergence of synchronic linguistics "


~Leafing~

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Re: Beyond Level 5? [Re: leafing]
    #5438108 -

there is a way around level 5 being a maxium level...what if u went so far u lost your ego and all that, BUT you went even farther, like losing touch with reality and ego is only part of a transition into a parallel universe of say, level 6?where once u reach this level 6 you regain your ego??


--------------------
-peace

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Re: Beyond Level 5? [Re: TrauM]
    #5445801 -

TrauM said:
You have all forgotten the important point here..
<br>
<br> When you hit a level 5 trip, you have lost connection with reality..if you have lost connection with reality, there is no more, you cannot go further..
<br>
<br> Or at least thats how it works in my books..correct me if wrong :wink:<br><br>Catch me @ codred.xs3.com


This is what I'm thinking..

When one ingests enough shrooms to reach level 5, there is still room for panic.  Obviously when you panic, you're telling yourself something isn't right, and need immediate evacuation.  If one had complete loss of reality, panic wouldn't exist.  To me, there is definitely an ongoing "level".  Until you eat so much to be physically disabling.. coma or death.


--------------------

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Re: Beyond Level 5? [Re: hoboblues]
    #5493155 -

first off, like _cantara_, i've had enough 'level 5's to know what they are without question.  and although it is a personal experience that could be gradated from level 1-1000, that would result in an almost useless scale.  i think the 1-5 level scale it very useful when people read and understand the descriptions of each state.

sure, it is very course in quantifying something as subjective as experience, but that also a lower error rate.  experience is definitely the key to using the scale though.

as far as what is 'beyond' level 5, i'm sure there is something, but you just don't come back to talk about it, ever.  i'm sure someone has ingested enough various neural enhancers to just get stuck that way, brain death so to speak.  but how knows, prolly not on shrooms, though, certainly on designer concoctions.

added:  i was looking at the level descriptions.  now, i consider myself an experienced psychonaut  :smirk:, and feel i have used the majority of psychotropics to their limits. 

anyway, i think that the scale is used a little inaccurately.  i honestly don't think many people ever get to four, or consider it a bad trip if they have.  my personal gauge is thus:

1:  music seems more lively, imagingation goes up a bit.  basically what i felt like when i was a teenager with headphones on.

2: i can close my eyes and see some coloured static, call them 2d patterns, whatever.

3: i can close my eyes and see 3d shapes.  i know i am tripping and just enjoy watching the walls move about.  kinda hard to follow a movie plot.

4: i am crawling on the floor trying to find a piece of paper to write shit down, since i've totally lost touch.  my mind is making up false pasts that i recall clearly, but are conflicting, and oh boy, confusing.  severe visual distortions.

4.5:  can't see straight, the eye wiggles + tracers make it pretty much are do to anything but crawl on all fours from one place to the next, provided you don't forget where you were going in those 15 and change direction.  usually you never make it anywere.  also a fun time is putting on talk radio, and despite putting the speaker up to your ear, you cannot make any sense of what they are even talking about from one sentence to the next.  fun game though.

5: i personally call this "theme by strauss" (intro to 'Also Sprach Zarathustra' used in the the movie _2001: space odyssey_)  from the first 5ish time i went to close my eyes to see what i could see, and while i thought i had closed them, i had not.  and the strauss theme played loudly as i floated in a large spaceship.  the backstreet boys were there too, frozen in sleep units each wearing a different brightly coloured spacesuit...  but i digress.  later i just detatched, did the whole hive mind thing.  when i did come around enough to move i was just able to see some light out from under the covers before they all turned to caves and mountains...

that kinda general thing.  the vision may have felt like 10 minutes, but 3 hours had passed.  with no recollection of the cd's in the cd changer having played through (none of which were Strauss, btw)

bumm, Bumm, BUMM,  BA! BUUUM!!!  ah, the sunrise...


--------------------
take care,

outerwave

Edited by outerwave (04/08/06 02:24 PM)

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Re: Beyond Level 5? [Re: outerwave]
    #5506476 -

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up.

Another thing about the level fives is that you really only remember the ride up and down with any degree (no matter how small) of clarity at all. Being in that rolling tide of namelessness and senselessness is like the opposite end of the spectrum of sensory deprivation, and of course, ends up having the same effect (kinda like how you can't see in pitch black, but you can't see if you're staring into a floodlight either). Your brain, even if it were working at full capacity, would have little to retain. And with your identity so worn away, whose memories would they be?

The scale works. Any desire to "go past" the end of the scale is just something that sounds cool to the uninformed. You'd never know you were there even if you could go.


--------------------
happy bear eats the family.

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Re: Beyond Level 5? [Re: Radioethiopia]
    #5517792 -

what if death is not but another begining which u can chose to exist or not whereever whenever whoever ... pure enlightenment to become god.


--------------------
Dust everywhere

http://rense.com/

http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/index.php

http://ufo.whipnet.org/digital.proof/index.html

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Re: Beyond Level 5? [Re: poptart355]
    #5517822 -

poptart355 said:
there is a way around level 5 being a maxium level...what if u went so far u lost your ego and all that, BUT you went even farther, like losing touch with reality and ego is only part of a transition into a parallel universe of say, level 6?where once u reach this level 6 you regain your ego??


That's how I look at it. Level 5 you lose reality and beyond that you establish a new reality. I've seen worlds within worlds within worlds, but I haven't gone into them. Just knowing they were there was enough at that time.

Is it me or does it not always depend on high doses to reach level 5? I've had two or three dry grams and completely lost touch with reality and myself. I usually end up inside my own head looking at beautiful landscapes, until I merge with them and become them and become nothing at the same time.

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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