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Offlinelonestar2004
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Registered: 10/03/04
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What if Bush has been right about Iraq all along?
    #3712328 - 02/01/05 10:35 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

http://www.suntimes.com/output/brown/cst-nws-brown01.html

by Mark Brown Chicago sun times columnist.

"if it turns out Bush was right all along, this is going to require some serious Penance. maybe id have to vote Republican in 2008."


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineTao
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Registered: 09/19/03
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Re: What if Bush has been right about Iraq all along? [Re: lonestar2004]
    #3712452 - 02/01/05 11:13 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

"all along"?!? you realize we went in there because he had stockpiles of WMDs, not to magnanamously give liberty to people. Jeez people forgot that quickly. almost to an orwellian extent.


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Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: What if Bush has been right about Iraq all along? [Re: Tao]
    #3712473 - 02/01/05 11:18 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

mark brown is liberal, anti-bush, i just thought it was a interesting article.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineTao
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Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
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Re: What if Bush has been right about Iraq all along? [Re: lonestar2004]
    #3712504 - 02/01/05 11:23 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

yeah i figured that.


i just find it disturbing how so many people seem to forget that we went in there for wmd's. operation 'iraqi freedom' was an afterthought, not what he presented either to the UN or the american people. and let us not forget the number of american soldiers who have died.


--------------------
Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: What if Bush has been right about Iraq all along? [Re: Tao]
    #3712512 - 02/01/05 11:25 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

good question. was it worth the price?


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Offlinenonoman
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Re: What if Bush has been right about Iraq all along? [Re: Tao]
    #3712565 - 02/01/05 11:39 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

It is disturbing that we are a nation of idiots.

Only in a nation of idiots could a chimp like Bush pull the wool over so many eyes.


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OfflineProsgeopax
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Re: What if Bush has been right about Iraq all along? [Re: nonoman]
    #3712639 - 02/01/05 11:53 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Public schooling works to make people good citizens (read: compliant citizens).


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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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Offlinenonoman
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Re: What if Bush has been right about Iraq all along? [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #3712773 - 02/01/05 12:11 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Good point, wouldn't mind hearing it expanded upon.


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: What if Bush has been right about Iraq all along? [Re: lonestar2004]
    #3713390 - 02/01/05 02:16 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

mark brown quote..

"its hard to swallow, isn't it?"

the left is going to take this guy out.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: What if Bush has been right about Iraq all along? [Re: lonestar2004]
    #3713692 - 02/01/05 03:19 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

What if Bush has been right about Iraq all along? What was he right about?

There were no WMDs, that was our reason for going into Iraq. While Saddam wasn't any good, and I'm glad he's gone, there are so much worse countries out there that we do nothing about. We didn't go there to give the Iraqis their freedom, and Bush hasn't been right because we haven't found the stockpiles of WMDs he was talking about, only a few isolated minor threats that were not worth a tiny fraction of the $200 billion we've spent.

That's a good neocon tactic though, if you're completely wrong about something just keep changing your reasons after the damage's done until one of them finally comes semi-true and you can parade it all over the media and have a big celebration. Yay Bush!


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Registered: 11/02/03
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Re: What if Bush has been right about Iraq all along? [Re: Ravus]
    #3713998 - 02/01/05 05:18 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Well, I see a bit of a problem here. Alot of the guys who are insisting Bush was wrong about WMDs believed Bush already knew they didn't exist and instead went to war conquer a slab of the middle east for oil or geopolitical reasons. If he is a liar, then he would be right. If he was being honest then he would be half right, wrong about WMDs, right about democracy in the middle east.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: What if Bush has been right about Iraq all along? [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3714109 - 02/01/05 05:49 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I see we are back to square one.

Bad intelligence included Powell lying to the UN assembly.

Bush violated the UN prime directive to attack Iraq for violating UN sanctions.

The USA bribed and blackmailed other countries to "join" a coalition of some 34 nations (some of whom later withdrew). Among the powerhouse nations are/were Albania, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Moldova, Mongolia, Romania, Slovakia, Ukraine, and the Kingdom of Tonga. Most of these nations contributed less than 100 "troops" with the US contributing about 80%, UK, 10%, 10% - all the rest.

This "coalition" was in name only.

We were so certain of the "rightness" of our action, that news had to regularly be "fudged" such as the Iraqis pulling down the statue of Saddam. (It was actually the US marines who pulled it over with a tank.)

The new Iraqi "freedom" has disallowed some mainstream Arab press from even being present in Iraq to report on the happenings there from a different perspective.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineProsgeopax
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Re: What if Bush has been right about Iraq all along? [Re: Swami]
    #3714185 - 02/01/05 06:10 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Now now Swami, why can't you just be one of those lovable rubes who goes along with the flow? Where's your knee-jerk patriotism? Didn't you get one of those little American flags made in China at the last political rally? Where's your sense of Wilsonian drive to remake the rest of the world in the American image? Don't you realize that you are either with us... or you are against us? Where's your blind faith in your commander in chief? What are you, ANTI-AMERICAN? We'll have to set you V-Chip to Fox news so you can see the error of your ways - whenever you turn on the T.V.

We'll be watching you... Swami

We'll be watching you...


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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OfflineCatalysis
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Registered: 04/23/02
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Re: What if Bush has been right about Iraq all along? [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3714685 - 02/01/05 07:42 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
Well, I see a bit of a problem here. Alot of the guys who are insisting Bush was wrong about WMDs believed Bush already knew they didn't exist and instead went to war conquer a slab of the middle east for oil or geopolitical reasons. If he is a liar, then he would be right. If he was being honest then he would be half right, wrong about WMDs, right about democracy in the middle east.




Thats a good point. If i recall correctly most dems and republicans voted to go to war on intelligence provided by not only the CIA but many other countries as well. Some people act as though Bush himself just made this stuff up and everyone bought into it. lol, it was a little more complex than that. That information, in fact, did not come from Bush himself but from many non-partisan organizations and countries that began investigating this stuff after 9/11. If you think the war was wrong, then your "blame list" should be about a mile long not just one guy.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: What if Bush has been right about Iraq all along? [Re: Catalysis]
    #3714744 - 02/01/05 07:51 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

If there was a kernel of truth in what you say, then why was it necessary for Bush to deliberately commingle Saddam and 9/11 non-stop until most Americans believed Saddam to be the man behind the attacks?

Why did Bush say we would not rest until Bin Laden was captured, then once he got his way with Iraq, say that Bin Laden's capture no longer mattered?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineCatalysis
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Re: What if Bush has been right about Iraq all along? [Re: Swami]
    #3714836 - 02/01/05 08:03 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

You act as though Bush is some kind of manipulative super-genius, able to instantly have his way with the tens of millions of people at a whim. The truth is that there were many hearings were evidence was presented to congress and many people had their chance to stand up and be heard but most of them backed the president and made his argument stronger.

That is what I think was one of the main failures going into the Iraq war. No one really came out against it until it was well under way. There were so many chances for the anti-war people to speak up but they all bought into the WMD thing just like Bush did. Now the difference is that they can all go back and say "oh i never supported the war in the first place" while Bush doesn't have that luxury. Bush had near 80% approval rating going into the war and now everyone claims "well that wasn't me". I have a hard time believing that. Sure it was based on bad intelligence, etc. but EVERYONE had access to that intelligence and it wasn't thoroughly questioned until after the war. It is the dems and the anti-war people's responsibilty to keep the president in check and question these things but they failed just as miserably as the president did.

As far as the Bin laden thing goes, i think they said that because they just didn't know where the hell he was and they knew that they probably weren't going to find him.


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Invisibleblacksabbathrulz
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Re: What if Bush has been right about Iraq all along? [Re: Swami]
    #3714897 - 02/01/05 08:11 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
If there was a kernel of truth in what you say, then why was it necessary for Bush to deliberately commingle Saddam and 9/11 non-stop until most Americans believed Saddam to be the man behind the attacks?

Why did Bush say we would not rest until Bin Laden was captured, then once he got his way with Iraq, say that Bin Laden's capture no longer mattered?




I don't think I've ever met a single american, that had thought for a second that Saddam was somehow responsible for 9/11. I hear peole say constantly that's what a majority of americans think, but I don't buy it.


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.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: What if Bush has been right about Iraq all along? [Re: Swami]
    #3715136 - 02/01/05 08:45 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I sincerely believe that a majority of Americans could not tell you who the vice president is. I'm quite serious about this. Just ask them. No multiple choice. No pictures. Just "Can you name the vice president?" I bet most can't do it. So it wouldn't surprise me a bit that most Americans have conflated Saddam and OBL. That is not evidence that Bush said anything to make them believe that. Just evidence that people don't pay enough attention and/or are stupid.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: What if Bush has been right about Iraq all along? [Re: Swami]
    #3715429 - 02/01/05 09:32 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
If there was a kernel of truth in what you say, then why was it necessary for Bush to deliberately commingle Saddam and 9/11 non-stop until most Americans believed Saddam to be the man behind the attacks?

Why did Bush say we would not rest until Bin Laden was captured, then once he got his way with Iraq, say that Bin Laden's capture no longer mattered?




The only people linking Saddam Hussein with 911 were democrats who tried to put words into Bush's mouth. Nobody ever said there was any clear or direct connection between Saddam and 911, despite lefites repeating they had been told this over and over. It seems that rather in their Orwellian fantasy this is what they wanted to hear and a distortion of what was really being said.

The Bin Laden thing is not really relevant. It shows inconsistency in several fairly informal comments made by a man who isn't particularly good at public speaking. I do not see some secret motive, or dramatic shift in policy. It wasn't the smartest thing to say, but I don't think it means Bush decided to give up on Bin Laden. That is also distorting the message.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
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Re: What if Bush has been right about Iraq all along? [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3718118 - 02/02/05 09:38 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

What a bitter pill the left has to swallow. I am proud to be on the side of freedom.

The funny thing is when democracy continues to spread throughout the muslim world the left is going to claim that it would have happened anyway.


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Tastes just like chicken


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