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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Prof Won't Back Down On Comparing WTC Victims To Nazis
    #3710750 - 02/01/05 12:35 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

http://www.wnbc.com/education/4139138/detail.html


Prof Won't Back Down On Comparing WTC Victims To Nazis


POSTED: 8:05 am EST January 28, 2005
UPDATED: 4:02 pm EST January 28, 2005

BOULDER, Colo. -- A University of Colorado professor who compared the victims of the World Trade Center attacks to Nazis said he would not back down from the topic in a speech in central New York next month.

Two Colorado congressmen on Thursday said professor Ward Churchill should apologize for his comments, while the brother of a man who died at the World Trade Center called Churchill a "nut case."

CU-Boulder interim Chancellor Phil DiStefano said Churchill's views don't represent the opinions of anyone affiliated with the university but that he had a right to express his opinion.

"While I may personally find his views offensive, I also must support his right as an American citizen to hold and express his views, no matter how repugnant, as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the Constitution," DiStefano said in a written statement.

Churchill, chairman of the ethnic studies program at CU, has been invited to speak next month at Hamilton College in Clinton, N.Y., where news of his visit has ignited protests.

In "Some People Push Back," a treatise he wrote shortly after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, Churchill said the 3,000 people killed in the twin towers weren't innocent victims. He said they worked for "the mighty engine of profit" but chose to ignore their role.

Churchill, an indigenous issues expert, described the World Trade Center victims as "little Eichmanns," a reference to Adolf Eichmann, who carried out Hitler's plan during World War II to exterminate Jews in Europe.

He called Eichmann a technocrat who "crunched numbers" and made the trains that carried Jews to death camps run on time. Churchill said Thursday that those in the Trade Center were technocrats whose work was just as deadly.

Rep. Bob Beauprez, R-Colo., called the comments "outrageous" and urged Churchill to resign. He and Rep. Mark Udall, D-Colo., said Churchill should apologize.

James Giaccone's 42-year-old brother, Joseph, worked for Cantor-Fitzgerald and died in the World Trade Center. Giaccone said he was outraged the college would invite Churchill to speak.

"I'm all for free speech but there has to be some responsibility that goes along with that," said Giaccone, of Long Island. "The college shouldn't be a lightning rod for this kind of a nut case."

Churchill's wife, fellow CU ethnic studies professor Natsu Saito, said her husband is popular with students. She said his statements sometimes make people uncomfortable but also force people to confront truths they would rather ignore.

"He does it because he really cares about all people, and everyone's kids, and their well-being. He has a very big heart, and I think that's what motivates his work. Because he tells the truth in a straightforward way, that is perceived as harsh," Saito said.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Prof Won't Back Down On Comparing WTC Victims To Nazis [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3710784 - 02/01/05 12:43 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Some people need to learn that if you say dumb shit like that, then nobody will listen to you when you have an actual point.

That guy is an idiot.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
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Offlinefaslimy
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Re: Prof Won't Back Down On Comparing WTC Victims To Nazis [Re: Phluck]
    #3710836 - 02/01/05 12:55 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

No, you're an idiot, remember?


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Prof Won't Back Down On Comparing WTC Victims To Nazis [Re: faslimy]
    #3710870 - 02/01/05 01:03 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Your well reasoned and thouroughly researched rebuttals never cease to win the minds of the uninformed masses.

Keep on believing everything you read on conspiracy theory websites. Somehow they manage to dig deep, find the real secrets, and maintain a lack of bias, all without leaving their parents basements.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Offlinefaslimy
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Re: Prof Won't Back Down On Comparing WTC Victims To Nazis [Re: Phluck]
    #3710886 - 02/01/05 01:05 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Keeping making those broad assumptions, it's what makes you the idiot that you are


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Prof Won't Back Down On Comparing WTC Victims To Nazis [Re: faslimy]
    #3710887 - 02/01/05 01:05 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

You want proof he's an idiot?
Is the controversy he created a discussion about whether or not the people who run the businesses of America to blame for the anti-US feelings in the world... or is the controversy about how the things he said were mean spirited, and that he should apologize?

He's really forcing people to ask the important questions, isn't he?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Prof Won't Back Down On Comparing WTC Victims To Nazis [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3710980 - 02/01/05 01:25 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

if (and this is admittedly a big IF) one assumes those 3000 victims to be representative of america as a whole..then subsequent events have unfortunately proven the good professor to be correct...the far right has since become wildly popular in this country..and their autocratic domestic policy combined with their imperialist foreign policy could not even have prevented 9/11 either...my guess is that theres 160+ million little eichmanns buzzing about bushs america..many of whom would still find justification for the govt even if the 9/11 conspiracy theory did turn out to be true...and you could swap any one of them for one of the dead and not get a different response...


--------------------


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Prof Won't Back Down On Comparing WTC Victims To Nazis [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3711009 - 02/01/05 01:32 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)


if (and this is admittedly a big IF) one assumes those 3000 victims to be representative of america as a whole..then subsequent events have unfortunately proven the good professor to be correct...the far right has since become wildly popular in this country

Huh?? The professor makes no claim that "the far right has become wildly popular in the country". He says that the people who died in 9/11 deserved to die because they happened to work at jobs where they worked with numbers and made money.

The guy is a despicable idiot for asserting this shit. I don't condone any of the 9/11 attacks, but the deaths of the military personel in the Pentagon were the only ones who were even near being "fair game". What about the babies and young children who were on those planes? What about the janitors and firefighters who died in those buildings? Not all of the people who died were military personel or "number crunchers obsessed with profit". They were normal and innocent civilians who were minding their own business and doing their jobs.

I hope this professor gets fired.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Prof Won't Back Down On Comparing WTC Victims To Nazis [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3711018 - 02/01/05 01:34 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

many of whom would still find justification for the govt even if the 9/11 conspiracy theory did turn out to be true

That's just human nature. The conspiracy theory proponents still won't back down even if they're proven wrong. People simply don't change their beliefs based on facts.

Just because someone buys into a set of ideas does not make them evil. Comparing someone who does to Eichmann is completely ridiculous.

You act like all Bush voters are thinking "Let's kill some ragheads", when in reality, they've been told that people were trying to kill them for no reason, and that Bush was doing something about it. Whether or not this information is correct has no effect on how good they are as people. To them, this is just the way it obviously is.

Exactly the same way as you feel about your own opinions.

The only difference between a conspiracy theorist and a Bush supporter is that they were brainwashed by different people.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Re: Prof Won't Back Down On Comparing WTC Victims To Nazis [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3711021 - 02/01/05 01:35 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I hope this professor gets fired.

Should people be fired for holding controversial opinions?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: Prof Won't Back Down On Comparing WTC Victims To Nazis [Re: Phluck]
    #3711043 - 02/01/05 01:39 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
I hope this professor gets fired.

Should people be fired for holding controversial opinions?



If their opinions tarnish the reputation of the institutions they are employed by then I would say yes. If the people above them don't want them as a representative they should fire them.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Prof Won't Back Down On Comparing WTC Victims To Nazis [Re: Phluck]
    #3711060 - 02/01/05 01:41 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)


I hope this professor gets fired.


Should people be fired for holding controversial opinions?

I didn't say he should get fired, I said I hope he does. If he does get fired I don't think it should be for holding "controversial opinions", but for advocating and celebrating the deaths of innocent people.

I don't think someone who puts forth such horrid ideals should be a teacher. He's another example of an Uber-Left wing tenured professor who hates his own country and spews his shit to impressionable students.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Prof Won't Back Down On Comparing WTC Victims To Nazis [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3711077 - 02/01/05 01:43 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
I don't think someone who puts forth such horrid ideals should be a teacher. He's another example of an Uber-Left wing tenured professor who hates his own country and spews his shit to impressionable students.



As a college student, I resent that characterization. I've had professors spew all kinds of left-wing bullshit at me, but I'm perfectly capable of deciding for myself if I buy into it or not.


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Re: Prof Won't Back Down On Comparing WTC Victims To Nazis [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3711085 - 02/01/05 01:45 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

If he does get fired I don't think it should be for holding "controversial opinions", but for advocating and celebrating the deaths of innocent people.




Please explain the difference. Believing that the people who died in the WTC were to our police state liberty-threading government as the people who worked for the Nazis were to Hitler is a controversial opinion, and from all I have seen him say the only reason you want him fired is because he holds controversial opinions. I think they could have a student argue against him, but for quite a few people in those towers his analogy seems to hold true. I don't believe he should be fired also, but nevertheless that's up to the institution.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Prof Won't Back Down On Comparing WTC Victims To Nazis [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3711119 - 02/01/05 01:51 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

If someone said they thought it was justified to kill civilians in Iraq because they were part of the culture that brought us terrorism, I don't think it would be considered as controversial.

There need to be people with wild viewpoints in schools, they just need to be debated and questioned, it helps people learn to think critically. University political programs are different from high school ones, the students are being trained to actually think and analyze information.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Re: Prof Won't Back Down On Comparing WTC Victims To Nazis [Re: Phluck]
    #3711130 - 02/01/05 01:53 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I wonder if that guy is ever going to tell me why I'm an idiot.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Prof Won't Back Down On Comparing WTC Victims To Nazis [Re: Silversoul]
    #3711139 - 02/01/05 01:55 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)


As a college student, I resent that characterization. I've had professors spew all kinds of left-wing bullshit at me, but I'm perfectly capable of deciding for myself if I buy into it or not.

I congratulate you if you and your fellow students at your campus are mature, intelligent, and completely self-aware. The kids at my campus during my college days sure as hell weren't.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Prof Won't Back Down On Comparing WTC Victims To Nazis [Re: Ravus]
    #3711153 - 02/01/05 01:58 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)


Please explain the difference. Believing that the people who died in the WTC were to our police state liberty-threading government as the people who worked for the Nazis were to Hitler is a controversial opinion, and from all I have seen him say the only reason you want him fired is because he holds controversial opinions.

Anybody who celebrates the deaths of innocent civilians who were minding their own business(whether they are Americans, Iraqis, Germans, or Eskimos) is disgusting. That crosses the line from "controversial" to crass and inhuman.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Prof Won't Back Down On Comparing WTC Victims To Nazis [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3711158 - 02/01/05 01:59 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Huh?? The professor makes no claim that "the far right has become wildly popular in the country".




no he didnt.. i did...and if you want proof..just scan the AOL message boards or the results from vote.com...

Quote:

many of whom would still find justification for the govt even if the 9/11 conspiracy theory did turn out to be true

That's just human nature. The conspiracy theory proponents still won't back down even if they're proven wrong. People simply don't change their beliefs based on facts




by that statement i meant that even if they knew beyond any reasonable doubt that bush&co was responsible for 9/11..they would still say it had to be done...and to repeat ..you could swap any one of them for any one of the victims and you would still get the same response...

Quote:

You act like all Bush voters are thinking "Let's kill some ragheads"




i dont think thats their primary motivation...except for a minority segment of religious nutfruits..my hunch is that most of them are more worried about things like driving their hummers and their haliburton stocks...


--------------------


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Prof Won't Back Down On Comparing WTC Victims To Nazis [Re: Phluck]
    #3711178 - 02/01/05 02:04 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)


If someone said they thought it was justified to kill civilians in Iraq because they were part of the culture that brought us terrorism, I don't think it would be considered as controversial.

I disagree. I think people in general would be horrified at such an assertion. I know I would be.


There need to be people with wild viewpoints in schools, they just need to be debated and questioned, it helps people learn to think critically. University political programs are different from high school ones, the students are being trained to actually think and analyze information.

I went to a respected college for two years. The only political ideas I were exposed to were Marxism, "multi-culturalism", extreme liberalism, and political correctness. These ideas do not work well in urging students to think on their own. It was indoctrination to ideology...and nothing more.

Yes, we do need controversial opinions to discuss on the college campus. College students need to think and debate. But, they are not served well by listening to a teacher who celebrates mass murder of innocent civilians.

I say let the Uni. of Colo. handle it though. This guy had a right to spew this garbage and the University has a right to fire his ass.


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