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InvisibleKahSol
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The Psychedelic Experience by Timothy Leary *DELETED*
    #3703054 - 01/30/05 06:47 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

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--------------------
I was strolling through the park one day...
On a very merry month of May..
When I was taken by surprise!
By a pair of Cube-ee Psi's!
In the merry merry month of May!


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Offlineesin
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Re: The Psychedelic Experience by Timothy Leary [Re: KahSol]
    #3703651 - 01/30/05 08:39 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I've read the book. Great read and a very helpful trip 'handbook'  :thumbup:


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InvisibleShroomOmatic
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Re: The Psychedelic Experience by Timothy Leary [Re: KahSol]
    #3703765 - 01/30/05 08:53 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Where do they sell the book? I would really like to pick up a copy. Thanks

ShroomOmatic


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Offlineonestepahead
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Re: The Psychedelic Experience by Timothy Leary [Re: ShroomOmatic]
    #3703845 - 01/30/05 09:08 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I got mine at amazon.com last month.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/det...ks&n=507846


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When your dead the fear of death wont bother you anymore.


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OfflineBeenHereNow
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Re: The Psychedelic Experience by Timothy Leary [Re: onestepahead]
    #3705511 - 01/31/05 02:38 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Damn. History really does repeat itself. Please learn from others' mistakes. Your ego is your indispensable raft. Killing it is like sinking your ship. You kinda need it to get along in the world. Getting off the merry-go-round isn?t as simple as taking a drug trip. Have we learned nothing in the last 40 years?

Learn from John Lennon ? he realized that the Leary ego-death bullshit was a dead-end:

...now that he'd weaned himself off the LSD, he felt more confident in himself. And his coupling with Yoko in a few months just made it all the more pronounced. In Jann Wenner's 1970 Rolling Stone interview he described the gradual change from spaced-out hippie to confident John: "I started taking LSD just before I met Yoko. I got a message on acid that you should try and destroy your ego, and I did. I was reading that stupid book of Leary?s and all that shit [The Psychedelic Experience]. We were going through a whole game that everybody went through. And I destroyed myself. I was slowly putting myself together after Maharishi, bit by bit, over a two-year period. But when I destroyed my ego I didn't believe I could do anything. I let Paul do what he wanted and say, them all just do what they wanted. And I was nothing. I was shit. And then Derek Taylor tripped me out at his house after he'd got back from LA. He said, 'You're alright.' And he pointed out which songs I'd written, and said, 'You wrote this, and you said this, and you are intelligent, don?t be frightened.' The next week I went down with Yoko and we tripped out again, and she freed me completely, to realise that I was me and it's alright. And that was it. I started fighting again and being a loud-mouth again and saying, 'Well I can do this,' and 'Fuck you, and this is what I want and 'Don't put me down.'"
http://www.beatles-discography.com/index.html?http://www.beatles-discography.com/1968.html

All of this frothy excitement about ego death that I read on these boards just makes me shake my head. It's like saying, "yeah man, liver death is where it's at... you don?t need that useless organ." In fact why don?t you just fuckin? trepan yourself?

The entheogen movement is in a lot of trouble if this is where people think it?s at. These substances should be used sparingly and in a way that brings humility and a strong desire to figure out the mystery through real spiritual work. If you treat it as a ?Game Over? trip, you?ll find that you?re actually just playing another type of game. A game of funhouse mirrors and maddening thoughts... and that peace has somehow eluded you.

Sorry to be so preachy. Some of you need it, and some of you don't.


Edited by BeenHereNow (01/31/05 02:39 AM)


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InvisibleKahSol
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Re: The Psychedelic Experience by Timothy Leary *DELETED* [Re: BeenHereNow]
    #3705650 - 01/31/05 02:59 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Post deleted by KahSol

Reason for deletion: .



--------------------
I was strolling through the park one day...
On a very merry month of May..
When I was taken by surprise!
By a pair of Cube-ee Psi's!
In the merry merry month of May!


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OfflineBeenHereNow
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Re: The Psychedelic Experience by Timothy Leary [Re: KahSol]
    #3705697 - 01/31/05 03:07 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Those are John Lennon's opinions, not Wenner's (Wenner was the interviewer, Lennon the interviewee). But your point still stands - that it's just one man's opinions. I threw my own opinions in there too, and you can take them or leave them. Leary did have some very profound insights, but still just one man's opinions. And some of his opinions I find deeply flawed.

I just hate to see anyone throw their head under the bus thinking it's gonna bring enlightenment. Someone very close to me has been in and out of mental hospitals for over 20 years after doing just that.

Peace bro.


Edited by BeenHereNow (01/31/05 03:08 AM)


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: The Psychedelic Experience by Timothy Leary [Re: BeenHereNow]
    #3705704 - 01/31/05 03:07 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Isn't it funny that at the end of their lives, both Leary and Lennon died?

Give the ego a break for a while, and you discover something... it is not required to survive. Frankly, most people could use an ego reduction surgery. Losing your ego allows you to LEARN WHAT EGO REALLY IS. It makes post-trip life easier. Your ego becomes your friend. At least, you and your ego can communicate with one another more clearly. Unlike your liver, you can take a break from your ego. Tripping can help you develop an ego that helps, and informs you... rather than an ego that just tickles your scrotum.

Lennon is case and point. He learned to get along with his ego.

Now... as for Tim,

Rather than linger on Leary's every word, look at it this way: Leary described something in ENGLISH better than most who have come after him. He wrote the handbook for n00bs. He simplified tripping. If you can suggest a better handbook, please do. I want to read it.

Leary is not God... rather, he's just the tip of the iceberg.

The Psychedelic Experience by Timothy Leary is GREAT read for a n00b tripper and a good read for an experienced tripper as well.

During their lives, both Leary and Lennon wanted a revolution, and they both got their wish.


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Fiddlesticks.



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InvisibleKahSol
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Re: The Psychedelic Experience by Timothy Leary *DELETED* [Re: Rose]
    #3705776 - 01/31/05 03:21 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

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Edited by KahSol (01/31/05 03:28 AM)


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: The Psychedelic Experience by Timothy Leary [Re: KahSol]
    #3705831 - 01/31/05 03:35 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Leary would say, "You create your own reality."

I suppose, from Leary's perspective, life is as simple, or confusing as you make it.

Quote:

lately I've been trying to do some self-realization.




Yoda would say, "There is no try... there is only do! Hmph? Hmph!"

Who am I to argue with a Jedi master?


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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OfflineBeenHereNow
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Re: The Psychedelic Experience by Timothy Leary [Re: KahSol]
    #3705860 - 01/31/05 03:43 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I'm all for developing a healthier, more loving, more evolved ego, but I think psychedelics can only play a limited role in that process (though they can be an effective catalyst). I'm not for attempting to obliterate the ego and I think the term "ego-death" implies that it is a good thing to totally lose touch with reality and all your touch-points - no matter how flawed they are. I think that's unhealthy and can lead to a sad state of affairs. It can also lead to a solipsistic state of mind where we forget that we have a role to play in mending the world... on the stage of life - no matter how phony it appears to be.


Edited by BeenHereNow (01/31/05 03:49 AM)


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: The Psychedelic Experience by Timothy Leary [Re: Rose]
    #3705890 - 01/31/05 03:56 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Humans have the biggest egos.

All other animals do fine taking care of themselves and others. Actually, I think humans worked much the same way until we developed language. I think most of us can afford to now loose the ego and keep the language... and see what happens.

Hey! Leggo' my ego!


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OfflineBeenHereNow
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Re: The Psychedelic Experience by Timothy Leary [Re: Rose]
    #3705951 - 01/31/05 04:12 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

We may just have different definitions of what the ego is. My background in psych might make my definition a little more academic. If by losing the ego you mean losing all the negativity typically associated with the ego, I'm with you. But if you mean totally losing your worldly identity mid-stream, then I'm afraid you'd be up shit-creek without a paddle - even if the identity is partially an illusion. And if you think you can safely do it temporarily on level 5 or whatever, then I pray you always make your way back home. Some people don?t.

In my holiest of holy philosophies, true death of the ego is accomplished, but I feel it?s dangerous to think you can shortcut to that point. I hear about all the depression people face when they feel they?ve seen it all and it?s just a cosmic joke, and I think? wow they aren?t really receiving the light or they wouldn?t feel that way. They may have gotten a glimpse of the void, but that empty chalice hasn?t been filled with the love and light of eternity. Back to the drawing board!

Anyway, good debate.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: The Psychedelic Experience by Timothy Leary [Re: BeenHereNow]
    #3706060 - 01/31/05 04:45 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Great discussion my friend, I love this stuff.

Yes, I think we are talking apples and apples.

My chosen career also, requires me to have a firm understanding of psychology and sociology.

Ego IMO = Adam (IE: The first Man... from the Bible... good book... but not exactly for n00b trippers :smile: )

Ego gives things names... or rather, it gives names meaning... but with a name (or label) everything is limited to what it is called. Cold is cold... it can't be anything else... it has a label... "Cold", because of its label (and our ego's interpratation of THIS label), the word "Cold" can never mean hot/cold. Without a label, it CAN be both. Our ego, while allowing us to describe the world, also GREATLY limits our perception of it.

Because of ego, we can argue... while saying the same thing :wink:

Now, as for your friend... I don't want to leave that topic alone, after all, he has influenced your perception of tripping.

My (tip of the iceberg) research into entheogens like mushrooms and LSD, leads me to believe that they do not change the chemical make-up of the brain... not long term at least.

If this is true (and I may stand corrected)... your friend either had a bad trip, and it made him sad for a long time... and he could simply decide to pop out of it... eventually...

OR (more likely)

Your friend was chemically imbalanced BEFORE he tripped... and the trip brought his unavoidable issues to the surface quickly. This is good/bad. He got sick quicker, but he also got help quicker.

Did tripping make him ill, I doubt it. Did it bring his mental issues to surface? Probably... it happens all the time. The only risk of tripping smart IMO, is risk of bringing to surface an undiagnosed chemical imbalance.

I have to say, even for the mentally ill, tripping can be VERY helpful if done in a good set/setting under a pair of experienced and watchful eyes.

As for "Ego death"... I like the phrase... "Ego Death". It definitely doesn't sound like it is child's play... and it isn't. The word DEATH definitely implies, "Enter at your own risk."

A handbook like Leary's is VERY HELPFUL when you wish to greatly increase the odds of your first trip being a SAFE and PRODUCTIVE trip.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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OfflineBeenHereNow
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Re: The Psychedelic Experience by Timothy Leary [Re: Rose]
    #3706098 - 01/31/05 04:54 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

?Our ego, while allowing us to describe the world, also GREATLY limits our perception of it.?

I agree that it does do that. But I also think that the reducing valve, or the seal, can be our savior. We are evolving creatures and can only handle so much energy and full-on reality - the amount depending on our stage of growth. I think an individual?s wings can melt from the heat of the inner sun.

Whether this person I am referring to was chemically imbalanced before the bad trip is unknown. All I know is that this person has been seriously psychotic since the acid experiences (not just depressed). I'm talking about a family member by the way. It?s the old chicken and the egg thing. But I do feel that we all have vulnerabilities and that moderation can save us a lot of pain.

I really don?t think there?s such a thing as an absolutely safe trip. There is always the danger of facing demons that may vanquish us for a while (could be a long while). And that period can bring great misery.

I think it?s wise to approach the unknown with caution. I believe that you should entertain the possibility of the direst of outcomes. If you can truly face that fear and you are still compelled to trip, then you are all the more prepared. But I advise against pretending that the dark side does not exist in all of us ? that we don?t all have some imbalanced karma (chemical or not). At any time we could be in for a very strange and unsettling time.

Haha, I know you?re thinking that this is the very recipe for a bad trip, and maybe it is, but I don?t like to pretend I am invincible. Careful footsteps my friends!


Edited by BeenHereNow (01/31/05 04:59 AM)


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: The Psychedelic Experience by Timothy Leary [Re: Rose]
    #3706135 - 01/31/05 05:10 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I agree with most of what you say.

Quote:

I think an individual?s wings can melt from the heat of the inner sun.




Without an ego, that sun could be hot/cold all the time.

With an ego, you can always choose to keep your wings.

Our perception limits us. We are our own glass ceiling.

We are the sun that most often melts our wings.

Quote:

I really don?t think there?s such a thing as an absolutely safe trip.




I agree, but you can take steps to trip smart. Tripping smart, greatly increases the odds of tripping safe. I think there is a much greater risk of physical harm from a trip (literally TRIPPING!) than mental harm... but the mental risks are the BIGGEST risks you take when you trip.

Most people think they know themselves... then they trip and discover if they were right.

We then decide if the experience was good or bad. Once our ego returns at least!

Quote:

There is always the danger of facing demons that may vanquish us for a while (could be a long while). And that period can bring great misery.




Are you talking about tripping or sobriety? :wink:

There is ALWAYS that chance.

Quote:

I think it?s wise to approach the unknown with caution. I believe that you should entertain the possibility of the direst of outcomes. If you can truly face that fear and you are still compelled to trip, then you are all the more prepared. But I advise against pretending that the dark side does not exist in all of us ? that we don?t all have some imbalanced karma (chemical or not). At any time we could be in for a very strange and unsettling time.





I agree completely... with one little exception. It is wise to look at BOTH the GOOD and the BAD before you trip your first time... then DURING your first trip, REMEMBER you can always move towards the POSITIVE. Yin and Yang. Simple.


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Fiddlesticks.



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OfflineBeenHereNow
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Re: The Psychedelic Experience by Timothy Leary [Re: Rose]
    #3706141 - 01/31/05 05:11 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Cheers to you. Good night.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: The Psychedelic Experience by Timothy Leary [Re: BeenHereNow]
    #3706149 - 01/31/05 05:14 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Night... great discussion.


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OfflineNoviseer
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Re: The Psychedelic Experience by Timothy Leary [Re: Rose]
    #3707209 - 01/31/05 01:23 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Its an interesting read, it really sucks you in. I don't really believe much of it, though. ANd I don't think that if I was tripping balls, I'd be calmed by hearing my goofy friend say

"O intrepid traveler
you are now entering the third bardo
daemons and angels await..."

yada yada. I'd be like wtf are you talknig about buddy, just having a rough time here, I don't need to hear your pseudobuddhist crap.

Your bullshit detector is off the charts while tripping. Not that buddhism is bullshit, but if my friend started doing hindu chants at me, I'd just start laughing. Tripping and religion don't mix for me, but if that stuff works for you, go for it.


--------------------
_______________________________________________________________
namaste said:
no flamz in da ODD, if you got nothing to contribute then keep yo lips zipped
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InvisibleKahSol
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Re: The Psychedelic Experience by Timothy Leary *DELETED* [Re: Noviseer]
    #3707797 - 01/31/05 04:08 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Post deleted by KahSol

Reason for deletion: .



--------------------
I was strolling through the park one day...
On a very merry month of May..
When I was taken by surprise!
By a pair of Cube-ee Psi's!
In the merry merry month of May!


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
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