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Offline13eetleJuice
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Re: "Making" People Feel Good [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3700397 - 01/29/05 11:07 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

This thread is reminding me more and more of a theory my freind once suggested to me. I can't present this theory nearly as convincing as he ever did but I'll make a feeble attempt.

Basically it says the root of every and all emotion is selfishness. It begins from our very first days as a young child. We cry when we are hungry and get fed. We cry when we are wet and that tall person comes to clean us up. We soon learn that for certain actions that we take there is an appropriate response by those with whom we interact. Ever notice how much time you spend as a parent trying to teach your children not to be selfish? For those without children maybe you can remember your own upbringing or a friend who has children of ages 3 to 5.

Now to the part where people are going to start being in disagreement. Love is selfish for we love in order to be loved in return. Giving gifts is selfish for it makes US feel good to give something to someone else. Spreading joy is selfish for it gives US joy to do so. Everything that we do is done because it gives something back to US. Selfishness can be seen in every action that we do throughout our entire lives.

Now, I'm not sure whether I believe this theory or not or if I do I'm not sure that certain exemptions to the rule exist but it is nonetheless very interesting and I think it fits quite well into this conversation. I leave it up to you to form your own opinions about it's relevancy and it's implications on the topic of manipulation.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: "Making" People Feel Good [Re: 13eetleJuice]
    #3700421 - 01/29/05 11:15 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

I have agreed with the part that says, even sharing good because it feels good is selfish if you do it to feel good, but I think their are ALSO times in addition to those times that we just blurt out stuff before we had a nano second to even consider why we are saying it.

Were you ever taken off guard by something and just as quickly out of your mouth came an "I'm in awe of the beauty of that" type comment when NO ONE is even around? I think their are also times, where we just become overwhelmed with good feelings and we just can't contain them and they come out in word or deed.

I think those are the moments we are in spirit, in the awe of it as in in-spired and thats what i was really wanting to pint out. Thats as genuine as it comes and its real.

Because it can happen when you are alone, I think it can also happen when you are not, and even the intent to make yourself feel good by sharing good had NOTHING to do with it coming out of your mouth or your being moved to act. Just my experience that I experience both.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

Edited by gettinjiggywithit (01/29/05 11:16 PM)

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Offline13eetleJuice
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Re: "Making" People Feel Good [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3700461 - 01/29/05 11:28 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

In argument to that, (not that I don't agree with you. I'm simply offering the logical argument in defense of the above stated theory,), we are so programmed to do these things from our very first days in this world, that we are not even aware of it and we do these things without needing a nano-second to think about it because it is ingrained in us down to the level of being near instinctual.

But, like I said. I'm still undecided as to whether or not I support this theory. :shrug: Honestly it doesn't really matter why we do these things does it? If I pay you a complement and it makes you smile and I'm happy because you've smiled then it's a good thing. No need to fix (or in this case, question) that which isn't broken.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: "Making" People Feel Good [Re: 13eetleJuice]
    #3700497 - 01/29/05 11:37 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

I think the inspired moments, in spirit and awe ones where overwhelming emotion just comes out is ingrained in us as in the spirit within is well ingrained in us and I think that is just holy pure and natural as it gets.

I also think some of it is just learned habit that requires no thought like when some one says, Oh, I love your dress and you say, Oh, I love yours too and you do mean it, but probably might not have said it first, because does it mean anything to anyone any more this world has become so pretentious? Maybe it does for some so like you said, thats a nice thing to have ingrained in you as learned behavior anyway.

Here's the automon one I love, when people ask you how you are doing and don't even listen for the responce and just keep talking. Next time some one asks you just for fun, with a big smile and happy voice say, "fucking lousy how bout you?' and see if they even caught it.


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Offline13eetleJuice
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Re: "Making" People Feel Good [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3700560 - 01/29/05 11:53 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Omg, I deteste programmed responses. I constantly make an attempt to say something/anything other than what the initiator is expecting. I also try not to initiate programmed responses myself. I try my hardest to stay away from conversational dribble such as "How's it goin'?" or "What's up?" because people are so accustomed to hearing it they just reply with a preprogrammed response. It's always, "fine", "not bad. yourself?", or the worst most abused of them all, "You're welcome" or "No Problem" which is of course in response to "Thank You". I mean it's fine if you genuinely feel what you are saying but in 99% of the cases when these things are said there is absolutely no thought whatsoever behind the words that are coming out of the mouth of the person saying it and that aggravates the hell out of me for some reason.

Whoops off topic a bit here. :shrug:


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: "Making" People Feel Good [Re: Swami]
    #3700740 - 01/30/05 12:39 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
If you think courting is effortless you must be female or incredibly rich.




Or you're just naturally positioned well on the Luck Plane.

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: "Making" People Feel Good [Re: Sclorch]
    #3700841 - 01/30/05 01:24 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, can't discount good karma (or good genetics).


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Offlinerelativexistance
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Re: "Making" People Feel Good [Re: 13eetleJuice]
    #3700843 - 01/30/05 01:27 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

13eetleJuice said:
Omg, I deteste programmed responses. I constantly make an attempt to say something/anything other than what the initiator is expecting. I also try not to initiate programmed responses myself. I try my hardest to stay away from conversational dribble such as "How's it goin'?" or "What's up?" because people are so accustomed to hearing it they just reply with a preprogrammed response. It's always, "fine", "not bad. yourself?", or the worst most abused of them all, "You're welcome" or "No Problem" which is of course in response to "Thank You". I mean it's fine if you genuinely feel what you are saying but in 99% of the cases when these things are said there is absolutely no thought whatsoever behind the words that are coming out of the mouth of the person saying it and that aggravates the hell out of me for some reason.

Whoops off topic a bit here. :shrug:




I can completely relate, unfortunately I have social inhabitions that force me into acting in such manner. Its often why I try to avoid talking with certain people where its not that I don't like them or we have nothing in common. It's just that I have nothing to say to them. Not that I have nothing to say, but nothing comfortable to say to them.

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Offline13eetleJuice
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Re: "Making" People Feel Good [Re: relativexistance]
    #3700848 - 01/30/05 01:29 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

I know lots of people who make entire conversations without ever really saying anything to you. My mother is one of them. Just talks and talks and hasn't really said shit.


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Offline13eetleJuice
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Re: "Making" People Feel Good [Re: 13eetleJuice]
    #3700850 - 01/30/05 01:31 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Oh, lol, and my father is the guy who tells everyone he speaks to all day about what he did yesterday. Arrgghh, that is so annoying! I suppose growing up with these two it's something that's just always on my mind.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: "Making" People Feel Good [Re: 13eetleJuice]
    #3700851 - 01/30/05 01:31 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

What is your point?


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Offline13eetleJuice
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Re: "Making" People Feel Good [Re: Swami]
    #3700853 - 01/30/05 01:33 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

"No point really. I just like to tell the story is all" - Grumpier Old men


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Offlinerelativexistance
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Re: "Making" People Feel Good [Re: relativexistance]
    #3700858 - 01/30/05 01:37 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

To get back on topic, flattery and insult can be somewhat the same. However they can also be entirely different. As others have posed the idea that we do things that as an end result are good for us and somewhat inherently selfish, I feel this can be true but is not always so. It is the intent for the actions which matters. If someone intends to make someone feel good about themselves it isn't always because they desire to feel good about theirselves. Sometimes people realize others are in such a dark place that they need these methods of support to increase the living quality of that individual. This has nothing to do with self needs, more along the lines of the needs of others. Also people can genuinely intend to make someone feel better I dont really know how I could describe it more as just love, and I dont really think we could truely capture the essence of love in words.

Edited by relativexistance (01/30/05 10:37 AM)

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: "Making" People Feel Good [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3702351 - 01/30/05 01:29 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Swami, you refer to women you romance or someone you want something from as as "prey". Why?

To me, romance is capturing a feeling or a mood that just is and being inspired to act within it.


You are too funny, jigster. There are active hunters like lions and passive hunters like a spider. Women are passive hunters.

But in your mind, spending many, many dollars and hours on makeup, nails, hair, colored contacts, implants, stockings, perfume, jewelery, short skirts, showing cleavage; etc. in order to arouse male interest is somehow capturing a mood "that just is". Too much!  :tongue2: :heart: :sun: :grin:


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: "Making" People Feel Good [Re: Swami]
    #3702416 - 01/30/05 01:53 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Ha ha, your example of the female web isn't a part of the mood I was addressing. Webs have to be fabricated.

Capturing the mood of an already existent ambiance and allowing yourself to be swept up by it is another story. Like that expression, "love is in the air". maybe romance is an attitude or a state of being open to something beyond the tangible.

Lets get back to the hunting thing as many men and women both do it but do they ever stop and realize what it is they are doing? What does a hunter hunt for and do with his/her prey? They either consume and devour it's life force and meat and use skins, furs or feathers for creating goods or they stuff and mount their catches and display them like trophies.

Neither is hardly romantic and both sound a little warped in a funny way don't they?

Maybe the difference with unadulterated romance is that people are doing nothing to make one or another feel good but that a good feeling from and ambient environment overtakes them BOTH as its prey ha ha.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: "Making" People Feel Good [Re: Swami]
    #3702427 - 01/30/05 01:56 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I think toiletduk said it.. it comes down to intention.
If you intention is to make the other person feel good about themselves, so you can manipulate them.. of course that's selfish
But if your intention is to make that person feel good, because you want them to be happy..out of love.. then what is wrong with that? Nothing.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: "Making" People Feel Good [Re: Shroomism]
    #3702444 - 01/30/05 02:02 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

If one is susceptable to flattery, then one is also susceptable to criticism. Better not to be moved off-center by either tactic.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: "Making" People Feel Good [Re: Swami]
    #3702461 - 01/30/05 02:06 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Both serve their purpose.. better to learn from them rather than avoid altogether.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: "Making" People Feel Good [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3702480 - 01/30/05 02:12 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Capturing the mood of an already existent ambiance and allowing yourself to be swept up by it is another story.

Agreed if you are already in a relationship. But if you are a single man or woman, the whole idea of "just letting it happen" or "leaving it up to fate" is largely a feminine myth. And that is why I laugh at the extraordinary lengths (most) women go to for something that is allegedly "a natural unfolding".

I unexpectedly stopped by to see my ex a few months ago (we were "soul-mates" for years and I have seen her through everything imaginable), She whispered through the cracked door, "You can't come in. I look horrid. I have no make-up on!" she stated. I didn't care, but she did. I had to come back at another time. (No, she did not have company.) So much for spontaneity.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: "Making" People Feel Good [Re: Swami]
    #3702552 - 01/30/05 02:26 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Well, if she wanted to have a web prepared for you first then she must consider you prey, weather it be something to consume, get goods from or trophyize.

You felt like soul mates and you never saw her without makeup on? Thats confusing. Soul mates recogise the soul not the body. Interesting.

Now, she could've openned up to the romanticism of your just showing up and allowed herself to be swept away by it, but she choose not too. Maybe that is an essense that people feel under the spell of and it makes them uncomfortable because they like to be in control.

I never really thought through any of this until this post and it's all humorous anyway I look at it now.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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