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InvisibleSwami
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Serial Killers
    #3700854 - 01/30/05 03:34 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Most are between the age of 20-35. Damn! Guess my window of opportunity has passed. *Swami rethinks next career move*


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offline13eetleJuice
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Re: Serial Killers [Re: Swami]
    #3700859 - 01/30/05 03:37 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

No, I don't believe age is a dis-qualificant for application. It's just that we prefer at least semi-intelligent white males between the ages of 20-35 in our little club.


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: Serial Killers [Re: 13eetleJuice]
    #3700870 - 01/30/05 03:46 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

eat your wheaties


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Offlinerelativexistance
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Re: Serial Killers [Re: Swami]
    #3700872 - 01/30/05 03:47 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I think there is logical reason for that age range. If you consider the fact that most people really don't have their maximum mental capacity until at least that age, they won't be able to deviate such diabolical plans. Sure you may have a young person that could murder many people, but do they have the ability? Some may, but as your statistics show, its improbable. They just cant get away with their sick plans. Then those that finally realize they are sick fucks and it is their calling fully engage it once they realize this at said age. People don't just develop sick-murder-death-kill-mindsets when they are 50. A potential exists when they are born and their unbringing can either enhance or suppress these tendencies. They fully develop their potential to multiple murder and relatively get away with it at that age period.


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Offlinezahudulallah
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Re: Serial Killers [Re: Swami]
    #3700881 - 01/30/05 03:54 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

That's about the average age for suicide bombers.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Serial Killers [Re: Swami]
    #3702172 - 01/30/05 02:22 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Did you see the show on the green River killer. he killed at least 61 women over a twenty year span and went for his first kill at age 15, he stabbed a six year old Boy and left him for dead.

he said he hated his mother who made fun of him and criticized him for not being able to read well and be wetting at his age of 14. he wanted to kill her so much to stop her ridicule but knew she also took care of him. He was so overwhelmed with anger, he had to know what it felt like to kill and stabbed the boy.

Later, it became women he raped and strangled. He said it was a way of giving a temporary relief to the rage he had built up within him at his mother. It was also said that there was no love or affection in his home. He said that he was angry he had no control over his mother and compensated for that by being able to control these women.

Had someone helped him to understand his rage and forgive his mother, the murders never would've happened. he was left to stew over the same hateful thoughts, build rage and vent his need to kill her (quiet her criticism) over and over again through killing them.

It's not an excuse, just an explanation. They finally put him away at age 50.

I just saw it on a dateline special a few nights ago and wanted to share this real life story since the topic came up. I wish this country would put mental and emotional health and well being as a first priority before any of the 3 Rs and fancy cars. With early intervention, they all could've been helped.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: Serial Killers [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3702887 - 01/30/05 05:59 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
I wish this country would put mental and emotional health and well being as a first priority before any of the 3 Rs and fancy cars. With early intervention, they all could've been helped.




:thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:
:thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup: :thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:

physical health also  :mushroom2:


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Serial Killers [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3702950 - 01/30/05 06:19 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Most serial killers do not fit into the category of insane. They usually have personality disorders, but so do many non-violent individuals. The individuals are usually control freaks...but then so am I and I don't run around torturing and killing people. I really don't think mental health is a consideration. As the actor Ed Harris said in the movie "Just Cause", they were born with a "predisposition to an appetite".


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: Serial Killers [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3702975 - 01/30/05 06:25 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

killing is genetic in all humans, so if you take a genetic standpoint all humans are killers. some more than others, but never to a degree that makes you a born killer. that is nonsense


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: Serial Killers [Re: fresh313]
    #3702996 - 01/30/05 06:32 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I don't know. This raises the old question of "nature versus nurture". I do however, tend to agree with you that killers are "made", but there may be some genetic predisposition at play here too...


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: Serial Killers [Re: Le_Canard]
    #3703011 - 01/30/05 06:35 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

its both. 
ill make a hypothesis
nature : 10%
nurture : 90%
now its a theory
now its a fact
write it down
i love the scientific method
:jester:


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Serial Killers [Re: fresh313]
    #3703195 - 01/30/05 07:18 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Really? You suppose much. I didn't say it was all genetic. Always it is a mix between upbringing and genetics. With some individuals genetics may have more influence. With others upbringing is the primary factor. My point is that there is no predicting serial killer tendancies so as to minimize them in our society.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Serial Killers [Re: fresh313]
    #3703738 - 01/30/05 08:49 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

So hue, if upbringing is in the mix then that is where we have the opportunity to intervene by nurturing the nature to not kill and to nurture love instead of hate, forgiveness instead of blame and judgment and anger, compassion and understanding instead of ridicule and punishment.

I don't know about you but my school courses did not consist of anger management classes or dealing with a need to control issues. My schools also did nothing to intervene with how my nature was being nurtured at home or in the school itself for that matter.

They weren't allowed to. Why? Guess which type of parents have a problem with that and won't allow it in the public schools?


Do you know that EVERYONE who is in jail for a violent crime was physically, mentally and or emotionally abused as a child. I wouldn't call that a lucky coincidence.

What is this illness, that cause adults to power trip on their children and abuse them children who in turn do it to theirs who in turn do it to theirs and so on through the ages?

Does anyone care to identify it and break the chain and turn it around? Not enough. As a society we care about good grades and good jobs and fancy homes, titles looks and clothes, being the best, having the most or we just don't give a fuck about anything.

The guy responsible for the green river murders was assaulting girls in high school and no body brought it to any ones attention. He slipped through the cracks because the girls were confused and afraid. Maybe they thought they deserved it or that he would come after them. They had no one to talk to and no one talking with them about this stuff.

This illness, society prefers to sweep under the rug and pretend it doesn't exist. It's still taboo.

Is there a psycho path gene? I don't know. If so, do all who have it serially kill no matter how they were raised? If caught, do we have preventative measures we can take? Why isn't this stuff a medical science priority of our governments from birth?

The bottom line question is, do you believe it is just something we as a collective of intelligent human beings have zero preventative control over and we'll just have to live with it?

I can't accept that. Why do we say we fail our children if they don't get the grades but no one says we failed them if the are mentally and emotionally fucked up to the nines by the adults in their lives? Why aren't people connecting the dots that they go on to fuck up other peoples lives and then they also get put in jail and never had a fighting chance.

Do we not have the resources in America to insure every child gets a chance at love, mental, physical and emotional support and care?

We MORE then do.

I don't want to argue about this, I want to understand it and I want to raise awareness about where our priorities are as US citizens and human beings. I want to raise awareness about speaking up when you see children being mentally physical and or emotionally abused intimated, ridiculed and neglected in environments devoid of love affection and support.

If any reader thinks they were one of them and wish some adult had intervened for them, well, all you can do now to heal is forgive, love, nurture, understand and support yourself and become that adult who intervenes for another child to stop it.

So Hue, predicting aside, what do you have to say about prevention?


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineMrBump
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Re: Serial Killers [Re: 13eetleJuice]
    #3704311 - 01/30/05 10:47 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

13eetleJuice said:
No, I don't believe age is a dis-qualificant for application. It's just that we prefer at least semi-intelligent white males between the ages of 20-35 in our little club.




preferably the ones who got rejected by the cheerleader types in high school. :smirk:


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If it weren't for the bloody corpses, I wouldn't have any corpses at all.

There are two ways to get to the top of an oak tree: start climbing or sit on an acorn.

Are you a carrot, an egg, or a coffee bean?


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Serial Killers [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3704396 - 01/30/05 11:03 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

"Do you know that EVERYONE who is in jail for a violent crime was physically, mentally and or emotionally abused as a child. I wouldn't call that a lucky coincidence."

That is a false statement. Ted Bundy professed a relatively happy upbringing, primarily by his grandparents who doted on him, and later by his mother who had him from a teen pregnancy with much support from her parents. Jeffrey Dahmer professed a happy upbringing with loving parents also defies this statement. Many serial killers had poor upbringings, but just as many had normal ones. Domestic violence usually is caused by parents who exhibited this behavior imprinting it on their young, and is preventable, but the causes of serial killer tendencies cannot be easily correlated. You are lumping all violent criminals together when each strain has it's own peculiarities. When discussing people one cannot generalize like this as each person is unique. For the record, though, I think the prevention of many kinds of violence (not all) rests on parents taking responsibility for their actions and teaching this to their children. A society where both parents were not required to work (a traditional - almost tribal - type of society), and gender roles (woman cooks...man gets food) were less confused, combined with involved traditional communities would create more responsible, centered adults. Would this affect the already rare occurrence of the serial killer...I doubt it. Most women, sadly, would say I am a sexist for promoting traditional families.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Serial Killers [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3704595 - 01/30/05 11:42 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I like the idea of tribal oriented communities and the idea of strong family and community bonds which so many children lack these days.

Agreed that a serial killer is unique to a one time "loss of control". I think we have the technology for distinguishing genetic or neurological differences between a serial killer and and an isolated incident.

Happy is a relative term. Passive neglect of mental and or emotional needs can also be considered a form of child abuse. Like the parent who substitutes gifts for love or watching TV in place of interactive activities. Vital healthy developmental needs are not being met when passive neglect is going on and the abuse is not obvious or violent in nature.

I learned that Dahmers mom was emotionally distant and physical affection was not a part of his upbringing.

I learned that Bundy was was spoiled to the point of believing he was godlike given no sense of he could do wrong.

I would call both of the above passive neglect abuse.

I am surprised in this day and age with all we know that parenting classes are not mandatory in High School.

I think there is so much that can be done from a preventative position and its not because as a society we have not made mental and emotional health related to child development a priority.

We care that they walk on time, use the potty on time and can read on time, but we are more then physical mental beings. The emotional and spiritual is so neglected in my opinion.

Well, I appreciate anyone hearing me out and your taking the time to reply hue. I can't solve the worlds problems by myself overnight, but I know I would start with making child development a top priority.

Hey swami, why did you bring this topic up anyway?


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Serial Killers [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3704854 - 01/31/05 12:28 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I myself am, as was my mother, a very emotionally distant person. I have been told I have Asperger's Disorder by a professional. If this is true my emotional state is somewhat determined by the disorder. I don't consider myself abusive. I have learned to pretend emotions that I often do not feel or do not seem to have the capacity to feel in order to seem less distant, but I am sure it is transparent. I myself, even while being very much lacking in the empathy department, have never been tempted to be a serial killer. There are a few people in my life I would have liked to kill for personal reasons, but I did not. My children seem normal (what is normal) as well.

"I think we have the technology for distinguishing genetic or neurological differences between a serial killer and and an isolated incident."

If this were possible would we have the right to cause a change through medical means to prevent this? Ever read "A Clockwork Orange"? That is an interesting thing to consider.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Serial Killers [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3704975 - 01/31/05 12:52 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

That movie came out when I was teen and I saw it but remember nothing other then it was disturbing and artsy.

It is an interesting thing to consider because on the one hand, you would not want a loved on to fall into the hands of a serial killer, nor for your own child to suffer the fate of becoming one if it is purely genetic, or neurological and preventable.

On the flip side, and looking at the BIG PICTURE, where would our opportunities for soul growth in developing forgiveness, and understanding compassion come from and non judgment if we genetically created peaceful benevolent beings of ourselves overnight?

During the 2 hour special I saw, they showed a portion of family members of the victims addressing the killer, forget his name. Most all pretty much told him they wished he suffered a horrible death and rotted in hell. One woman, who in tears told him, you can't hold me any longer because I forgive you. He started crying too. That was the only time he did through it all.

I would have to say that by making the decision to correct such genes as a whole of society, we would only be doing so out of compassion for those with the genes and their potential victims. That would tell me that we already achieved the growth we were seeking in that area.

I know that's a stretch yet, I think anyone who would say no to it, is still requiring some soul growth in the compassion fellow feeling area. I wouldn't wish either experience on anyone myself.

This would make for a good new topic spin off. Heavy stuff, but I don't condone sticking our heads in the sand either.

I still want to know why swami brought this up.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: Serial Killers [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3706180 - 01/31/05 05:27 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

once we get the genome mapped and what not the solution would be to genetically profile every baby, for health reasons primarily, with this information you could predict genetic abnormalities that correlate with known diseases, treatment could start as soon as needed. the pathogenic process could be halted minimizing greatly the amount of damage, greatly increasing the prognosis. could also be used to study the link between violence and genetics, more importantly the lack there of.
all the rest of the fun genetic cross-plays.  /waits for the day
:mushroom2:


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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