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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Brown Rice Flour, Pressure Cooker, Rye Grain, Vermiculite, Wild Bird Seed

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Offlinelaughingbuddha
That's freakinAWESOME!

Registered: 10/19/04
Posts: 159
Loc: the Moment
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
moist is a funny word...
    #3700414 - 01/30/05 01:14 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

:mad2: the persisent non-moistness of my rye, however, is not funny. i seek your advice, oh venerable mushroom & rye gurus, on possible reasons why my rye grain keeps coming out of the pressure cooker looking dry and moist-less. i have beseeched advice on this question before, to which i did receive a few responses, but despite my sincerest efforts, i again seem to have created dry, lifeless monsters of rye.  i will describe my procedure:  soak 1 cup of rye per jar for 12-24 hours.  then, simmer the rye for at least 45 minutes. in fact, just today i simmered for 60 minutes, thinking that since my rye had been previously only simmered for 15-20 minutes on the past three attempts, and has come out disgustingly dry, i would go fucking crazy overboard and simmer the hell out of the stupid rye berries. after simmering the bastards for 60 minutes, i rinsed them. 3 i rinsed and strained in room temperature water, and then i thought to rinse and strain the other 3 jars i was preparing in cold water. 2 layers of tyvek, courtesy of the united states postal service, went on top of the 1 qt jars i use, followed by the lid, rubber side DOWN, then the band, screwed tightly, then followed by 2 squares of aluminum foil. the 6 jars are placed in my pressure cooker, 3 quarts of boiling water is added, the lid is securely tightened, and the heat is turned up to high. once the pressure regulator cap is placed on and it begins to rise to 15 psi, i lower the pressure to medium. i leave the pressure cooker to pc the rye jars at 14.5 psi (for some reason my pc will never reach 15 psi) for 60 minutes. then i place the pc in a cooler locale, wait for the pressure cap to fall, open the pc, and lo and behold! dry, disgusting rye--it looks the same as the rye that i foolishly attempted to inoculate on two previous occassions. it is hard to describe, but the rye simply looks dry, like it's dusty or something...if i had a picture i'd upload it and you could all share in my frustration and horror. but i don't.

:mad: previously, i placed the stupid things in my stupid TiT incubator and not a damn thing happened, not even any contaminants. the only possible contam was the black scourge, and that only occurred on one of the 15-20 jars of rye that i have ATTEMPTED, and i must emphasize ATTEMPTED, to get the damn moisture content correct. if one were to compare the way my rye jars look when they come out of the pc--whether they were simmered for 15, 25, or 60 minutes--to, say, magash's, one would be disgusted and might lose control of their bowels; yes, in fact my rye jars are that dry. admittedly, simmering for 60 minutes did seem to increase the percentage of wet, clumpy, non-shakable rye at the bottom of my jars, but these rye berries, what looked to be ideal in terms of moisture content, represented only a fraction of the rye in the jar, and despite vigorous shaking, did not seem to contribute their bounty of moisture to their dry and parched rye compatriots. :thumbdown:


if you cannot tell, my sarcasm is an attempt to veil sincere annoyance and frustration. how is it so easy for others, children, chimpanzees, dolphins even, to get it right on their very first try, when i--the most type-a and obssessive and meticulous and anal and thorough person you're likely to ever meet--cannot succeed in keeping the moisture within my jars? i just want to be treated like a human being. i thought perhaps they're losing moisture content while pressure cooking, but how would that be possible? they're screwed tight, extra tight, rubber lid side down. please, mushroom sages, hear my pleas for assistance, and guide me to the light. 


:confused: brf & vermiculite, a la PF Tek, in 1 quart jars? yay, or nay?


--------------------
"The more I read, the more I meditate; and the more I meditate, the more certain I am that I know nothing." -Voltaire


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: moist is a funny word... [Re: laughingbuddha]
    #3700507 - 01/30/05 01:39 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

1. Simmering for 1hour should turn them to goo...Sounds like perhaps you're opening the PC to soon maybe...I've heard of moisture being sucked out of the jars b/c of that...and do you let you pressure cooker get hot the whole time(leaving it on high) and let lots of excessive moisture out thats inside of the jars..?..

2.Maybe there's something i'm not thinking of, but i'll think about it and look around and see what i can find...good luck till then...


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InvisibleMagashM
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Registered: 07/25/02
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Re: moist is a funny word... [Re: laughingbuddha]
    #3700617 - 01/30/05 02:04 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

When you do the rye right it often has a dry look to it, buuuuuuuuuuuut if it hasn't shrunk down it is still fine.  :mushroom2:


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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Offlinelargosnook
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Re: moist is a funny word... [Re: Magash]
    #3700638 - 01/30/05 02:08 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

So are you saying that if the berries have shrunk, thats a good indicater that they are no good? After pc'ing I mean


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"I Love my Honey-Bunny!"


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: moist is a funny word... [Re: largosnook]
    #3700661 - 01/30/05 02:16 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Depends on how much they have shrunk. If the jars look like they have hardly went down or lost any volume after shaking them they should be fine. With the disk that has a small hole, tyvek or poly and foil it should be fine. (depending on how long pc'd)


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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OfflineCPT_InSaNo
Just anotherfreak in thefreak kingdom

Registered: 01/08/02
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Re: moist is a funny word... [Re: largosnook]
    #3700664 - 01/30/05 02:16 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Using the look of things can often be deceiving. Have you tried innoculating? what were the results? In my opinion growing is a trial and error process.


--------------------
"We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been. Spiral out. Keep going, going..."
Tool, Lateralus




Anything in my above post is 100% fictional.

R.I.P. Hunter S. Thompson


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Registered: 05/08/04
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Re: moist is a funny word... [Re: CPT_InSaNo]
    #3700695 - 01/30/05 02:26 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Also did you shake te jars? You have to shake them up...while warm still is best....a good shake will livin them up a bit.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Offlinelaughingbuddha
That's freakinAWESOME!

Registered: 10/19/04
Posts: 159
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Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: moist is a funny word... [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3702755 - 01/30/05 05:21 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

thank you.

simmering for 1 hour does not and did not turn them to goo. in fact, they could've been simmered for 2 hours, and still not likely turned to goo. as for the pressure cooker being hot the whole time...i think you'll need to clarify your statement. it's a pressure cooker--it's supposed to be hot. but as i said, i leave the heat on high until the pressure starts to rise and then i turn it down to medium, adjusting it in minute amounts when i feel it appropriate. i have absolutely no idea if excessive moisture is escaping from the jars while pcing. how would someone be able to tell this while pcing? as far as i know, there are no transparent pressure cookers, nor have i figured out a way to shrink myself down and make myself impervious to 250 degree farenheit pressure. admittedly, the jars do look much more moist before i pressure cook them. to be honest, i'd rather it be any other problem in the world than a pressure cooker issue. it is by far the most tedious and time consuming and unknowable aspect of this process, and i am loathe to consider that it is the pressure cooker causing this. i sincerely doubt it is--it's a pressure cooker. it works, it doesn't explode or leak or leap about, it cooks things via pressure and does its job like it should, as far as i can tell.

no, i did not open the pressure cooker too soon. i shall explain: this has been my fourth attempt at preparing rye jars. on the first occassion i let the jars cool thoroughly in the pc before i opened it up, over 12 hours in fact. the rye jars for that first attempt, i now realize, look quite similar to the ones i just prepared yesterday & simmered for 60 minutes. the second time i let the jars cool down in the pc again before shaking them, they too appeared the same as the latest dry batch. i thought, perhaps, that the fact that i was not shaking them soon after they were done pcing was reducing the moisture content. thus, on the third and fourth attempts i shook the jars vigorously, maniacally, frantically, frothfully even, after the pressure had dropped. in fact, the third batch looked just like the first and second--i didn't even bother innoculating it.

yes, i have tried innoculating two times, the first two times i attempted to prepare rye. i incubated at 86 F, left the bastards for more than a month. no results. nothing. zilch. not even any contams. just rye. to ward off the mention of this as a problem, the spores are from THE, they are visible in the syringes, and i am skeptical that they are bunk spores. after a month in the TiT, they began to smell. an insignificant minority developed the black plague, but in fact i couldn't tell if it was the black plague or just rotting rye. i think it was rotting rye.

yes, i shake the jars. like a wild animal. if by shaking the jars vigorously and diligently, one could make gold appear before them, or, better yet, beautiful, young and eager, nubile women would manifest themselves on your bed by shaking the jars, you can begin to understand the mindset that i have while i shake the jars. the jars are shook, thoroughly, while still warm. no, they are not inoculated while still warm, and yes, i understand that even though they may be cool to the touch the innards may still be warm and spore-destructive. this has always been accounted for.

this leaves me with magash's commentary. i am skeptical, to say the least, that if i take your advice i will have mycelium networks growing throughout my jars. the issue is that this is the fourth time i have tried to get rye jars correct and they look like crap. they've always looked like crap. this time they did, however, have less craptastic berries on the bottom, but in fact i think that these bottom berries are TOO moist, they are close to the sludge consistency that is indicative of too much moisture. they are close to this point, but not quite what i'd call sludge. i suppose i could inoculate one or two of them, but i'm leary of wasting any more innoculant. as for rye shrinkage, i am uncertain. the jars do look different after i shake them, but not in a good way. there are more clumps of rye after they're pced and shook, but shrunk? i can't tell...i'll have to look more closely. in the coming days i'd like to post a few pics and get your opinion.

i would try a different spawn but the way i see it, if i can't get the moisture content in rye correct, what good is it going to do me to try other spawns? from what i have read they are all, if anything, harder to get the correct moisture content in than rye, especially popcorn and even more so with wild bird seed. the other thing is that rye is fastest to colonize, apparently, and i don't really want to spend forever waiting for colonization (although at this point it's a moot point; i could've started some BRF jars on my first attempt with rye, two months ago, and they'd probly be colonized by now.) but i only have 1 qt jars and i was told not to do BRF in 1 qt jars--too clumpy and sticky.

i really don't want to give up but this is ridiculous. it's supposed to be a hobby, an enjoyable diversion, not a time-sucking career. i'm a student first and foremost--i don't have the time or money to spend 6 hours in the kitchen every weekend testing out methods to keep my moisture content viable. what gives?


--------------------
"The more I read, the more I meditate; and the more I meditate, the more certain I am that I know nothing." -Voltaire


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Registered: 11/06/04
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Re: moist is a funny word... [Re: laughingbuddha]
    #3702810 - 01/30/05 05:39 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

thats too much to read and what i meant was...they turn to goo Eventually...if you let them sit in the jar for 1 week...you get goo....if not..then i donno, all ur info is all jumbled together...so i'll passon reading All of it and wish you the best....sounds like you're in one hell of a pickel....but u'll fix it i'm sure...good luck


-gnostic


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Offlinelaughingbuddha
That's freakinAWESOME!

Registered: 10/19/04
Posts: 159
Loc: the Moment
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: moist is a funny word... [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #3702935 - 01/30/05 06:13 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

i suppose i could post my replies one word at a time...


--------------------
"The more I read, the more I meditate; and the more I meditate, the more certain I am that I know nothing." -Voltaire


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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Brown Rice Flour, Pressure Cooker, Rye Grain, Vermiculite, Wild Bird Seed

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