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 Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
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 "Making" People Feel Good 
#3699103 - 01/29/05 04:42 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Norman Vincent Peale and other feel-good type of salesmen will tell you (and correctly) that the secret to friendships, romance and making sales is to "make" the other peson feel good about themselves and hence - about you. Empathy, compliments, taking interest in their hobbies, mimicking body language etc. are all part of the game.
This form of blatant manipulation may well get you what you want, but is it a higher form of teaching as usually presented? Is flattery really that different than an insult?
If we are to be truly "authentic", does any interpersonal "technique" including flattery, have it's place?
This being said, I stopped a guy with a hand-crafted leather jacket in the supermarket. He looked taken aback until I said, "Hey, cool jacket, man!" Then he beamed. I wasn't flattering him in the sense of trying to accomplish some goal by controlling his emotions nor fabricating some observation.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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 skystone
stop the motion
Registered: 11/08/04
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Last seen: 19 years, 2 months
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 Re: "Making" People Feel Good [Re: Swami]
#3699167 - 01/29/05 05:05 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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In fact, flattery without truth is worse than an insult.
Insult, as misled by personal mindset it may be, is at least honest.
In case of flattery you have two layers of problem. One is
the true belief in the root (like "this guy is an asshole") and
there is one more layer put on top of it and that is lie.
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"..and suddenly it began to rain"
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
 
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: "Making" People Feel Good [Re: Swami]
#3699228 - 01/29/05 05:32 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Some people give just because giving feels good and some people like to see others feeling as good as they do. If that's selfish then I am selfish because I want for everyone to feel as good as I do for no other reason then, joy loves company.
Some people just like to share their good thoughts feelings and interests in moments of inspiration with others because it feels good to connect with another for that moment. No hidden agenda beyond that.
I can't remember how many times I have said or did something nice to someone I know I will never see again. What was to gain, but that one moment in time, where you connect in a sharing giving and receiving way of a good feeling with another because you felt inspired to by something of interest or beauty to you?
When something gives rise to your feeling good and you want to share that feeling with the one who brought the inspiration for the feeling into your life, that's a good thing and that happens a lot too.
Of course when you go to buy something a salesman may say anything to make the sale. How and that people manipulate feelings for personal gain is not new news.
Not everyone is always on the make and take. Some people are just filled with so much light and joy and good feeling, they just want to spread it around and share it asking for nothing in return.
Gomp and I talk about a related concept a lot. Say someone does say something to you that seems to make you feel better. If you end up feeling better, believing they meant it, does it matter?
If one goes around through life thinking that ever nice word and deed they receive is done with il or manipulative intent and are lying about the nice thing they said, they must have really low self esteem bordering paranoia tendencies.
If the sales girl says she loves your hair style, maybe she does maybe she doesn't but if you allow for it to make you feel good, then, you gain anyway. You are still free to say, I am just browsing today and walk out of the store.   
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Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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skystone
stop the motion
Registered: 11/08/04
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Last seen: 19 years, 2 months
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You don't have to lie to spread light.
the trick is to get yourself to really honestly do that every day
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"..and suddenly it began to rain"
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
Registered: 09/11/04
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Re: "Making" People Feel Good [Re: skystone]
#3699489 - 01/29/05 06:44 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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"Making" People Feel Good
as, People Feel Good "Making"?
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Disclaimer!?
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides
Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1 
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Re: "Making" People Feel Good [Re: Swami]
#3699523 - 01/29/05 06:52 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well, it's a matter of motivation, really. If you're doing this to get something from the other person, that's just selfish manipulation. Genuinely nice people will do it, because, well, they actually like the person...
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: "Making" People Feel Good [Re: Le_Canard]
#3699534 - 01/29/05 06:54 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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What if they like the person because they were previously manipulated by them? A good manipulator is hardly obvious.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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kaiowas
lest we baguette
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
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Re: "Making" People Feel Good [Re: Swami]
#3699551 - 01/29/05 06:57 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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wow a secret to romance and friendships huh?
I caught my sister reading a book similar to that and it said the way to make lots of friends is to talk about them and their interests.
now I think a once in a while thing is no problem, after all, you don't want to be sitting there talking about yourself all the time either. As usual, balance is the key.
besides, if you really cared about the person you are talking to, then these questions here really don't matter then do they?
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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: "Making" People Feel Good [Re: kaiowas]
#3699580 - 01/29/05 07:04 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yes, the secrets of initiating romance are:
a. non-sexual touching as soon as possible.
b. directly facing your "prey"
c. subltly mimicking your prey's body position and gestures
d. using your prey's pet word's or phrases
e. taking real or feigned interest in their hobbies
f. intense eye-contact. make them look away first.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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kaiowas
lest we baguette
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
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Re: "Making" People Feel Good [Re: Swami]
#3699594 - 01/29/05 07:08 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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heh, does romance even need to be initiated though?
shouldn't it already be there?
love shouldn't require effort, at least not in my book 
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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides
Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Re: "Making" People Feel Good [Re: Swami]
#3699611 - 01/29/05 07:10 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hmmm, interesting question, and I really have no answer to that. I will say that I try to be nice to everyone I meet, and it is not because I can "get" something from them. It just feels good I guess. (yeah, I know - corney answer, but true nonetheless) I dunno, I was just raised that way...
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: "Making" People Feel Good [Re: kaiowas]
#3699616 - 01/29/05 07:10 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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If you think courting is effortless you must be female or incredibly rich.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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kaiowas
lest we baguette
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
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Re: "Making" People Feel Good [Re: Swami]
#3699661 - 01/29/05 07:16 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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I was referring to love not courting.
then again you said romance which is more along the lines of courting, so that was a semantic error on my part.
then again the lady I am with right now required no effort. it just happened, and it's pretty sweet.
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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,888
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: "Making" People Feel Good [Re: kaiowas]
#3699679 - 01/29/05 07:20 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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" making you feel good, is making other feel good"
-B.S.-Portal. 
[Now did I just hear someone think, "calling doctor feel good"? hiiiHAa! off to wonderworld (sleep)]
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Disclaimer!?
Edited by Gomp (01/29/05 07:23 PM)
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: "Making" People Feel Good [Re: Swami]
#3699909 - 01/29/05 08:16 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Being nice to people by giving complements...even people you don't really like is not fake. It is showing basic kindness. ANY behavior you exhibit towards others IS manipulation, but not all manipulation is bad. There is nothing wrong trying to manipulate others as long as you show respect to that person. Manipulation is so ingrained in us we only notice it when it is blatant, but isn't the spirit of community based on cooperation? He who puts others first is never last.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
Edited by Huehuecoyotl (01/29/05 10:23 PM)
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skystone
stop the motion
Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 465
Loc: state,country,etc.
Last seen: 19 years, 2 months
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Re: "Making" People Feel Good [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#3699944 - 01/29/05 08:21 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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But there is an alternative, you can open yourself to the differences and accept them for what they are. That way your showing of affection would not be a lie.
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"..and suddenly it began to rain"
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13eetleJuice
the ghost with the most
Registered: 10/28/04
Posts: 2,253
Loc: 6' under pushin up shroom...
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Re: "Making" People Feel Good [Re: Swami]
#3700118 - 01/29/05 09:14 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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I've asked myself this same question countless times before. I find that I manipulate the people around me all the time. I have quite a gift (or maybe it's a curse) for just this very thing. I've purposely manipulated people in certain ways just to see if I could pull it off. It's not something I'm proud to say I've done and I feel it's wrong but... I dunno I have such mixed emotions about this topic.
Before I get too far into this and begin confusing anyone, I'll give some examples of what I'm talking about. My father, for example can be easily manipulated, probably because his love for me as his child further clouds his feelings on certain things. I can, and have in the past, started a controversial conversation about a topic that I knew we both agreed on and asked for his opinions. He would tell me just what I knew he was going to say then I would counter by defending the other side of the argument and by the time I was done I had so twisted him in so many different directions he began to agree with me. Of course I had to tell him "I was only joking". To which he would reply, "It's not funny. Now I don't know what to think".
I've questioned whether or not I should use this form of persuasion when it really matters and more importantly if I could even stop myself from doing so. I think sometimes, I do manipulate people on a level thats unconscious even to me. Still remains, is the question of whether or not it is the morally correct thing to do.
Previously I had thrown my hands up about the matter and told myself, "If they're too stupid to see it coming, fuck em", but in the case of manipulation in romantic situations, I find that I have a hard time having any respect for someone who I feel I have manipulated into feeling something for me or feeling a certain way about me, regardless of the fact that their feelings are indeed very real, and now, very much their own.
Heh, I'm sort of feeling a bit of shame as I write this and I'm hoping that you will not veiw me in a lesser light. I've hurt people with my interactions with them in my past and I'm attempting to change the ways I deal with people in my life right now. This is a very intersting topic for me though, and I'm curious as to which direction it will head and I anxiously await to read everyones opinions about manipulation and when/if it should be used, if ever.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: "Making" People Feel Good [Re: skystone]
#3700262 - 01/29/05 10:03 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
skystone said:
You don't have to lie to spread light.
the trick is to get yourself to really honestly do that every day
Of course you don't have to and most of us don't.
I was talking about being sincerely inspired to share the real McCoy. You were talking about lying manipulators and I replied to your reply to change the tone of this thread.
Why is it a trick to honestly think and feel good things and share those thoughts and feelings with the source of the inspiration?
Feeling and thinking good thoughts does come naturally or easily for many people.
Even swami shared that he said something to nice to someone, who in turn "beamed" and that he wanted nothing from the man other then to tell him, he thought his jacket was cool. Swami saw it and appreciated it and let the guy know he had something he could appreciate.
That's a beautiful thing and the world could use a lot more of that! 
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Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: "Making" People Feel Good [Re: skystone]
#3700318 - 01/29/05 10:35 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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You misread my words. ANY INTERACTION WITH OTHER HUMAN BEINGS COMES DOWN TO MANIPULATION. This is not dishonest as we all give to get. This does not mean you should not accept people for who they are. It is not fake unless you make it so. It is not possible to be nice expecting nothing in return...every action has a motive, if your motive is to make the other person feel good then that was your return. This is manipulation also. There is no escaping that fact. I am not talking about tricking people...this is merely reality.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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I just finished reading the rest of this thread after skys second reply and am wondering wtf? Not to you sky, you cleared up your whole view on this.
Swami, you refer to women you romance or someone you want something from as as "prey". Why?
To me, romance is capturing a feeling or a mood that just is and being inspired to act within it.
Look guys, women know the difference when its being faked and when a guy is swept away in that essense. If you are manipulating with flowers , vacations, wine and chocolates and thinking you are getting away with it, ha ha ha don't bet on that, she knows it and if she is still around, you are being used for something yourself or she is hoping you will come around to feel the real deal.
I can understand manipulation in business, as for most people in it, its about money and personal gain, but personal friendships and romantic relationships? I don't get it. I thought those were for sharing in mutual interests, respect, love and the joy that comes from that.
Hue, you never meant a nice thing you ever said to your wife or children or said something just because it felt good to you to say it to them without wanting to manipulate a thing from them from it? I wouldn't believe it if you told me everything you ever said to them was a manipulation and not really felt, thought or meant.
Have any of you ever been so in love, you wanted to get on a mountain top and scream, "I LOVE THIS PERSON", just because the good feeling was so overwhelming powerful you couldn't contain it and wanted to share the joy with the world?
I just got done watching the stepford wives and now some of you guys have me wondering if I may be sharing the world with some robots.
I'm confused by this thread.  Maybe I am not and am actually understanding it all in which case I am then disturbed by some of it.
I won't say its a guy thing because I know men who are in touch with the emotional energy field. If some of you arn't, that sucks for you and I think it sucks many men were raised not to be.
You guys got cheated, but its not to late to open up to it. You're still alive with hearts that can feel good soft feelings and minds that can think good soft thoughts. Maybe some of you guys should google some sites on calling in and up your own goddess energy. You might like it!
Why should the women be getting the best of both in this day and age? You guys can too!
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Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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