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 Swami
Eggshell Walker
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 God & Sports 
#3697924 - 01/29/05 10:58 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Serena Williams' trophy acceptance speech on winning the Australian Open: "First, I would like to thank God for my victory."
If the most powerful force in the Universe was truly on her side, isn't that a slight edge - akin to cheating? (Kind of like a beauty contestant sleeping with a judge.)
If not, should she receive a full psychiatric evaluation for this delusion?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
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 Re: God & Sports [Re: Swami]
#3697950 - 01/29/05 11:05 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Perhaps she was just thanking God for putting her on this earth, and thereby allowing her to develope and train, just as he did the same to her opponent?
Doubtful she actually meant God's long arm stretched into the tournament and hit the ball past her opponent or whatnot.
If she thanked her mother and father in her victory speech (as God as often viewed as, the creator of life,) then would she be insinuating that their powers helped her win by cheating, or that they gave her life and inspired her to become a great tennis player? Probably the latter.
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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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California
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Re: God & Sports [Re: Swami]
#3697957 - 01/29/05 11:06 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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That "God" dude sure is popular with those sports types, actors also. Do actors and athletes know something?(extremely rhetorical)
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 skystone
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Re: God & Sports [Re: Swami]
#3697978 - 01/29/05 11:11 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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I can't believe this, just leave the woman alone.
Why do you force truth so much? Sometimes it just doesn't matter.
What matters is that she is succesfull.
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"..and suddenly it began to rain"
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Phluck
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Re: God & Sports [Re: Swami]
#3697993 - 01/29/05 11:14 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Maybe she should be cursing God for helping her to win something as trivial as a tennis match, while leaving millions of starving kids overseas to die.
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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: God & Sports [Re: Ravus]
#3697997 - 01/29/05 11:15 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Perhaps she was just thanking God for putting her on this earth, and thereby allowing her to develope and train, just as he did the same to her opponent?
If that is what she meant (which I doubt, as there was a recent article on her in a Christian magazine), then is that not unnecessary to state? Do athletes publicly thank other live-giving, yet neutral elements such as water, oxygen and sunshine?
If that is what she meant, then why not thank publicly than God for her losses as well - both personal and sports related. "I would like to take this opportunity to thank God for the murder of my sister..." or "I would like to take this opportunity to thank God for my complete collapse, stomach pull and humiliating defeat."
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The proof is in the pudding.
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exclusive58
illegal alien
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Re: God & Sports [Re: Swami]
#3698006 - 01/29/05 11:17 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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I've often heard that profesional sportsmen and sportswomen have some kind of mystical experiences during the time whent they are deeply concentrated on the game they are playing.
For example, i heard of a soccer player saying at one point when he was in possession of the ball, all of a sudden time slowed down (kinda like in the matrix) and he had a total lucid perception of what was going on on the field.
I'll try to find some more of these experiences to post later.
But i think this would relate to the fact that through hard work, motivation and will, one may be able to develop one's spiritual potentials and have a metaphysical experience which makes them think that God must be responsible for what happened, when really none only than themselves are responsible.
So does Serena need a psychiatric evaluation? Well i'd say the only help she needs, for all i know, is that there is no separation between god and herself. She's probably deeply rooted in duality mode, and if you consider a psychiatric to be some sort of spiritual teacher, then yes, an evaluation would be good.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: God & Sports [Re: skystone]
#3698016 - 01/29/05 11:20 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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I can't believe this...
You could if you had faith!
Why do you force truth so much?
Please explain what I am forcing.
Sometimes it just doesn't matter.
Which is why you took the time to respond? 
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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I have had those moments of which you speak, yet there is nothing religious about not being mentally distracted or having one-pointed awareness. During or afterwards, there is no hint of the cosmic or divine about it. It is just a well-tuned and disciplined mind working nearly perfectly for a short time.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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skystone
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Re: God & Sports [Re: Swami]
#3698050 - 01/29/05 11:27 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Swami..
What are you forcing?
You are always expecting people to spend their lives questioning their beliefs and testing them to see if they are true.
If the woman feels confortable believing in her god, let her, as long as she doesn't hurt anyone in the name of her belief.
If kids want to believe in santaclaus, let them, if they want to believe in fairtales, let them.
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"..and suddenly it began to rain"
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Paou
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Re: God & Sports [Re: skystone]
#3698060 - 01/29/05 11:30 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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What about the people back in the 1800's who were comfortable believing that black people were subhuman, and therefore that slavery was justified? Beliefs SHOULD be questioned. That is how we make progress.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: God & Sports [Re: skystone]
#3698074 - 01/29/05 11:32 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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And if your sister wants to drink cyanide-laced Kool-aid...
How am I stopping anyone? What is your great fear about discussing this topic? Don't like it, then don't participate! How can it get any simpler? Did I force you to read this and reply? (Sorry, I forgot to turn off my psy-waves - my bad!)
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The proof is in the pudding.
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exclusive58
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Re: God & Sports [Re: Swami]
#3698089 - 01/29/05 11:36 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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I have had those moments of which you speak, yet there is nothing religious about not being mentally distracted or having one-pointed awareness
Well hey, i guess different people make different associations huh?
Maybe you don't feel that having a metaphysical experience is religious, yet religion IS metaphysical.
It is easier to understand where Serena is coming from when you assume that she is closed-minded enough to make a relation between the idea of God that she made up in her head, and her experience.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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The moments I experienced were those of acutely sharpened clarity or no-fear. This is not beyond the physical, not can I understand how this even remotely relates to unity, love, understanding, life-after-death or whatever else that is mystical that you are trying to point to.
Being in-the-moment is complete. It does not lead to a "conclusion" nor require a belief system of any sort.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Phluck
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For example, i heard of a soccer player saying at one point when he was in possession of the ball, all of a sudden time slowed down (kinda like in the matrix) and he had a total lucid perception of what was going on on the field.
Think it's a coincidence that what you've described is one of the effects of adrenaline?
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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: God & Sports [Re: Phluck]
#3698184 - 01/29/05 11:59 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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I am not sure about that, but I do know that many unseasoned athletes in long events lose because of excessive adrenaline release which is quite exhausting.
Many are surprised that sometimes tennis players play their best near the end of a grueling match. This is because they no longer have to slowly dole out their energy and keep a reserve. In a similar way, I was nearly exhausted when running in a half-marathon, yet ran the fastest ever in my life during the last half-mile.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Phluck
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Re: God & Sports [Re: Swami]
#3698220 - 01/29/05 12:08 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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I remember once when I was about 11, I was playing football or something at school, and the fastest kid in the school accidentally kicked me in the nuts and took off with the ball. It hurt like hell, but something in my head snapped, and time seemed to slow to a crawl, I effortlessly ran after him and took him down, and then some other kids pulled me off of him.
Maybe it wasn't adrenaline, but there's something that can happen that results in time slowing down, and increased strength and speed, and it can be triggered by blind illogical rage, which I wouldn't exactly consider spiritual. The guy who kicked me in the nuts definitely did it by accident, and he was a good friend of mine, and continued to be afterwards.
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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us
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SkorpivoMusterion
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Re: God & Sports [Re: Swami]
#3698345 - 01/29/05 12:39 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think superstition is very common in athletes.
As knowledge and emotional maturity is the antidote to transcending such primitive methods of thought - superstitions, etc., it seems that most athletes are usually not the type of individuals who invest substantial energy into erudition and academics. Instead, their bodies and skills become enhanced through rigorous training and frequent visits at Bally's Fitness gyms.
The absence of factual knowledge and objective information often leads the untrained mind to form their own 'models of reality', and often with unstable, insubstantial foundations due to lack of consistency, factual information and so on.
This is most commonly demonstrated in children. But the common difference between children and adults is that children are still in their very open-minded state of being, and are naturally sponges of information with little to no resistance of truths that they encounter in life.
In adults there is the higher tendency to shield their egos and build onto their existing framework of beliefs and so forth.
God forbid they discover that their entire framework is all meaningless, valueless and all worthless and has zero relationship to the divine Ground.
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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.
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Ravus
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Re: God & Sports [Re: Swami]
#3698495 - 01/29/05 01:17 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
If that is what she meant (which I doubt, as there was a recent article on her in a Christian magazine), then is that not unnecessary to state? Do athletes publicly thank other live-giving, yet neutral elements such as water, oxygen and sunshine?
If that is what she meant, then why not thank publicly than God for her losses as well - both personal and sports related. "I would like to take this opportunity to thank God for the murder of my sister..." or "I would like to take this opportunity to thank God for my complete collapse, stomach pull and humiliating defeat."
Do you have a copy of what she said in Christian magazine? From her quote, I don't see how you can just jump to the conclusion that she was thanking God for Divine Interference or help in her game, rather than her just thanking God for his inspiration and power that she feels from him and that without she felt her victory would not be possible. Does she feel encouragement and power from water, oxygen and sunshine? Her body does, but if she's a typical God-believer, she believes God created all of it, and is the source of everything. Thanking God is thanking everything he gave her, her inspiration, her victory, the water she drinks and the air she breathes.
As for the latter question, that is all human nature. It is obvious why humans do not thank God or a higher power for their losses, because though they often believe it's God's will, they did not want it to happen. She is no Buddha or Christ, after all, just a simple tennis player thanking God after achieving a victory.
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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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Swami
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Re: God & Sports [Re: Ravus]
#3698580 - 01/29/05 01:44 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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It is obvious why humans do not thank God or a higher power for their losses, because though they often believe it's God's will, they did not want it to happen.
And you do not see that as indicative of a lack of faith? Believers do not give thanks to God for their losses as they do not truly believe what they state they believe in.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
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Re: God & Sports [Re: Swami]
#3698604 - 01/29/05 01:52 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Why is it that God is always held responsible for the good that occurs, but we blaim the bad on mankind? Was the asian tsunami God's work on Earth....or was it just a freak of nature?
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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"Thank God I survived!" said one tsunami victim. "Too fucking bad about the other 150,000", he continued.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
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Re: God & Sports [Re: Swami]
#3698615 - 01/29/05 01:58 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Why didn't he get pissed at God for making that monster wave? Why haven't all of the worlds religions denounced God in protest of the disaster and demanded he take better care of us?
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Prosgeopax
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That would involve questioning false beliefs.
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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.
You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite
Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.
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PhanTomCat
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 Re: God & Sports [Re: Swami]
#3698830 - 01/29/05 02:58 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said:
Serena Williams' trophy acceptance speech on winning the Australian Open: "First, I would like to thank God for my victory."
Usually this statement is followed up with: "I would also like to thank my parents and family for their love and support" - type of statement.... Eehhhh....? (Can that safety be assumed...? I don't watch a lot of sports....)
Would it not be pretentious to say after a victory: "I would like to thank no one except MYSELF because of MY hard devoted time & training.... Without ME and MY own actions exclusively, I would have never been able to win...." It would be interesting indeed to hear this type of statement.... But, what would YOU honestly feel about it and the person saying it after having heard it....?
Quote:
If the most powerful force in the Universe was truly on her side, isn't that a slight edge - akin to cheating? (Kind of like a beauty contestant sleeping with a judge.)
You are kinda~ suggesting that God -through some sort of divine intervention- gave her some extra powers for the purpose of "cheating" to win the race, JUST because she openly proclaimed her faith after the fact...? Doesn't that counterdict what "blind faith" & "spiritual beliefs" are all about -to expect nothing in return...? And if there is a God, would he/she not be on Everyone's side - weather they had faith or not....?
The "sleeping with the Judge" anecdote doesn't really fit, does it...?
1) She would have had devious intentions to have slept with a judge before the event to GET the "victory" for payments rendered- clearly a pre-meditated barter method of cheating.... (Is having "faith" considered a devious intention or a "barter"...?)
2) I highly doubt that if she HAD slept with a judge to get an edge that she would have openly and proudly admitted it - after the fact....
Having "faith" for inner spiritual strength, and "sleeping with a judge" do not seem to relate, nor be "akin" to each other in the least sense of intentions....
If I am correctly following your line of reasoning, and my statement above is correct about secondly thanking her parents and or family, would having this "love" and support from her family be considered an "Edge" over someone who did not have those same pillars of support in their life leading up to the event....? Could you, or perhaps, would you consider this an unfair advantage akin to cheating - again, through you line of reasoning....? I guess that would be dependent upon YOUR belief that "Love" is also one of the most powerful "forces" in the Universe.... Eeeehhhhh....? You can't "see" love, but can you honestly deny that it exists....?
Quote:
If not, should she receive a full psychiatric evaluation for this delusion?
If she had said "I would like to thank God for this victory, because GOD directly gave ME special powers over the others (as discussed between us) so that I could win the event -because we decided that I DESERVED to win...." Then YES, straight-jacket-city and butterfly nets galore....! Their coming to take me away.... Their coming to take me away, Ha Ha....
>^;;^<
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I'll be your midnight French Fry.... 
"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Before I tackle your entire post, pretend she had said, "I thank Satan for my victory", how would you take that?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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skystone
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Re: God & Sports [Re: Paou]
#3698858 - 01/29/05 03:07 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Paou said:
What about the people back in the 1800's who were comfortable believing that black people were subhuman, and therefore that slavery was justified? Beliefs SHOULD be questioned. That is how we make progress.
you wouldn't post this if you had read my EVERY word.
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"..and suddenly it began to rain"
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Prosgeopax
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Re: God & Sports [Re: Swami]
#3698862 - 01/29/05 03:07 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said:
Before I tackle your entire post, pretend she had said, "I thank Satan for my victory", how would you take that?
 That would be so cool... "horns up!"
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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.
You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite
Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
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Re: God & Sports [Re: Swami]
#3698885 - 01/29/05 03:15 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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"First, I would like to thank God for my victory"
Actually, if I heard Serena correctly, she said "I would like to thank MY God."
When she said that, it seemed odd to me that HER God was different from MY God. Isn't God God?
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Anxiety is what you make it.
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Prosgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?
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No, people make up many different gods.
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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.
You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite
Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
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My God can whip your God any day...AND my God is bigger and more omniscient than your God as well. He also smites much harder.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
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"I would like to thank my parents"
Serena thanked her mom, and her mom's reaction struck me odd. Her mom actually seemed disgusted or at least not glowing with the pride of a daughter who had just won a tennis Grand Slam. It just so happens that her mom is her "coach", and throughout the match mom didn't look too happy with Serena. Lots of eye rolling. 
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Anxiety is what you make it.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
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LOL. Reminds me of the old Ken-L-Ration commercial - "My dog's bigger than your dog, my dog's bigger than yours."
Wow, how odd God spelled backwards is dog. Or is that doG?
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Anxiety is what you make it.
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PhanTomCat
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Re: God & Sports [Re: Swami]
#3698914 - 01/29/05 03:27 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said:
Before I tackle your entire post, pretend she had said, "I thank Satan for my victory", how would you take that?
As I understand religion and evil, evil is here to deceive and place question in one's faith.... BUT, could not actually/directly change the outcome of an event.... ----IF--- they do indeed exist....
BUT, my religious education is limited, so as you could consider me ignorant on the topic.... My post was purely based on how I perceive religion, or how my impression of "good and evil" work in this world....
But how would I take that statement.... I would consider it very ballzy~....! I also think that the statement (in our current society seemingly based on sensationalism) would serve to haunt her in her future endeavors in the spotlight.... ESPECIALLY if she was sponsored by "wholesome sponsors".... I would think that a sponsor would not want to be associated with such "negative" and controversial statements.... Perhaps, but who knows...?
>^;;^<
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I'll be your midnight French Fry....
"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
"I would like to thank my parents"
Serena thanked her mom, and her mom's reaction struck me odd. Her mom actually seemed disgusted or at least not glowing with the pride of a daughter who had just won a tennis Grand Slam. It just so happens that her mom is her "coach", and throughout the match mom didn't look too happy with Serena. Lots of eye rolling.
That is sad....  Sad indeed.... For not having faith in her daughter, and for not celebrating in her victorious moment of being the best.... Sound's like one of those 3-5yr old "pageant" mom's with a drive to live her dreams of success thru her daughter - at all costs....
>^;;^<
On a sidenote, I have to leave now, but I will be back later to answer any posts directed towards me.... 
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I'll be your midnight French Fry....
"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
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"Sounds like one of those 3-5 year old "pageant moms".
Good analogy. For some reason, the dad (Richard Williams) used to be the "pageant mom" who was always present at matches and seeking attention of his own, but now he isn't to be seen and the mom is the focal point.
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Anxiety is what you make it.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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What's up with her hair?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: God & Sports [Re: Swami]
#3699013 - 01/29/05 04:03 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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"What's up with her hair?"
It's big.
Did you notice Serena looking at her reflection in the trophy and adjusting her hair?
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Anxiety is what you make it.
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....
Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
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Re: God & Sports [Re: Swami]
#3702121 - 01/30/05 11:53 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said:
Before I tackle your entire post, pretend she had said, "I thank Satan for my victory", how would you take that?
Did you trip before you got a chance to tackle it....?
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I'll be your midnight French Fry....
"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,888
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said:
Why is it that God is always held responsible for the good that occurs, but we blame the bad on mankind? Was the asian tsunami God's work on Earth....or was it just a freak of nature?
I'm interested in how you separated the two,...
the tsunami was natures(God's) work..? cant help it, but say; just freaking like you moving a finger.. ..is nature/God/your work.
and unless someone, type up the way the nerves connect from my (in) brain, to mind. that would go against it. it could (?) do some grand turnover on science :P I'm blabbering a lot of topic. I'm gonna hit the shower.. he he :P
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Disclaimer!?
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