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OfflineStonedShroom
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Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples
    #3690071 - 01/27/05 06:33 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

http://www.gay.com/news/article.html?coll=news_articles&sernum=2005/01/26/1&page=1

LGBT organizations strongly criticized the nation's new secretary of education for her handling of a cartoon on the Public Broadcasting System (PBS) that features four lesbians in one episode.

The unaired episode of "Postcards from Buster" shows the title character -- a cartoon bunny -- on a trip to Vermont's maple sugar farms. While visiting, Buster meets several characters, including two lesbian couples. (Vermont is also known for recognizing same-sex civil unions.)

On Tuesday, Education Secretary Margaret Spellings attacked the show in a letter to Pat Mitchell, PBS president and chief executive.

"Congress' and the [Education] Department's purpose in funding this programming certainly was not to introduce this kind of subject matter to children, particularly through the powerful and intimate medium of television," Spellings wrote.

The education secretary then demanded a refund of government money that had funded "Postcards from Buster."

PBS responded the same day, saying the nonprofit network would not distribute the episode to its 349 stations.

"Ultimately, our decision was based on the fact that we recognize this is a sensitive issue, and we wanted to make sure that parents had an opportunity to introduce this subject to their children in their own time," said Lea Sloan, vice president of media relations at PBS, in a quote published by the Associated Press (AP).

LGBT organizations decried the move.

"Gay families should not be censored and hidden by the Bush Administration," said Dave Noble, head of the National Stonewall Democrats. "Our families are the normal neighbors of millions of fellow Americans. Yet, in an episode that does not even mention gay issues, the portrayal of an actual family is viewed as a shameful threat by this White House. The Bush Administration is not only attempting to segregate our families into a second-class status in law, but in the public mind as well."

"The secretary's first act in office denies children an education about the diversity of American families," said Human Rights Campaign Political Director Winnie Stachelberg in a prepared statement.

"Teaching children about respect for differences promotes tolerance of their fellow human beings. Those are the values our children should be learning. Instead, Secretary Spellings is sending the message that differences should be concealed. This creates a dangerous environment for children's growth," Stachelberg added. "Gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender youth are disproportionately at risk for suicide. Creating a climate in which children are taught that differences should be feared does nothing to promote understanding for peers."

WGBH, the Boston public television station that produces the show, has not changed course following Spellings' actions. The station plans to air the episode March 23 and make it available to other stations.
:sad:


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OfflineCatalysis
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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: StonedShroom]
    #3690323 - 01/27/05 07:40 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I don't understand why sexual references need to be made in childrens cartoons anyways. Not that its wrong, its simply inappropriate. Convince me otherwise and then I will debate the whole gay thing.


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: Catalysis]
    #3690336 - 01/27/05 07:44 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

how is it a sexual reference? Couples are a fact of life, sexually driven or not.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: vampirism]
    #3690377 - 01/27/05 07:52 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Exactly, how is a depiction of a lesbian couple more of a sexual reference than the depiction of a husband and wife?


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OfflineCatalysis
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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: vampirism]
    #3690448 - 01/27/05 08:03 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Well you are probably right. Having not seen the show, i was probably jumping to conclusions. However, a child does not generally see a male/female couple on TV and even consider the factor of sexuality. That is why I think trying to incorperate gays into a children's cartoon would be more of a reference to sexuality than anything whereas a male/female relationship is thought to be more like a family/parent association.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: Catalysis]
    #3690709 - 01/27/05 08:42 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I don't think a child is going to think sexual things when he sees lesbians on TV.

Unless he's an early bloomer.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: StonedShroom]
    #3691281 - 01/27/05 09:55 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

What are lesbian couples doing in a cartoon anyway? I disagree with the decision, but it's for kids. I've yet to even meet a lesbian couple (that I know of as being a lesbian couple) in real life, why do they need to include one in the cartoon?

They should know that with the society of America today this wouldn't be accepted, gays can't even get married, less likely appear on children's cartoons.


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InvisiblePaou
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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: Ravus]
    #3691322 - 01/27/05 10:00 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Some people do know lesbian couples(I've met a few myself), and it's best if kids learn to accept them rather than condemn them for being different. If they're exposed to them on such a casual basis, they're less likely to be judgemental of them. Remember, some kid in their school might have two moms, and you can bet that those kids are gonna get their asses kicked unless the other kids learn to be more open-minded about such families.


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: Catalysis]
    #3691843 - 01/28/05 12:10 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Catalysis said:
I don't understand why sexual references need to be made in childrens cartoons anyways. Not that its wrong, its simply inappropriate. Convince me otherwise and then I will debate the whole gay thing.




I totally agree.


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Offlineunbeliever
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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #3691869 - 01/28/05 12:24 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
Quote:

Catalysis said:
I don't understand why sexual references need to be made in childrens cartoons anyways. Not that its wrong, its simply inappropriate. Convince me otherwise and then I will debate the whole gay thing.




I totally agree.




How is simply being gay "sexual"? If that's the case, than so is being straight. Fact of the matter is, there are millions and millions of gay people in the world and like it or not, you and your kids are going to interact with at least some of them in some way. And guess what, you're not going to "catch the gay" or go to hell for it either. Shocking but true!


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InvisiblePaou
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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: unbeliever]
    #3691912 - 01/28/05 12:38 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Exactly. Everyone has a sexual orientation, but they're not constantly engaged in sexual behavior.


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Offline13eetleJuice
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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: Catalysis]
    #3692227 - 01/28/05 02:46 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Catalysis said:
Well you are probably right. Having not seen the show, i was probably jumping to conclusions. However, a child does not generally see a male/female couple on TV and even consider the factor of sexuality. That is why I think trying to incorperate gays into a children's cartoon would be more of a reference to sexuality than anything whereas a male/female relationship is thought to be more like a family/parent association.




You're appearantly missing the whole point probably in part because you have a prejudice against gay couples. I'm not saying that you are being conciously prejudiced but you obviously have some subconcious issues with this that you may or may not be aware of. I come to this conclusion because you self admittedly say you see a male/female relationship to be more of a family relationship whereas you do not see a same sex partnership in this light.

I think that's the whole point of including this in the cartoon is to teach children from an early age that gay couples are just as much a family as a straight couple. I think they chose to insert this into cartoons in order to teach children these things so they can form such an opinion before they get bombarded by the prejudices of the world.


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Offlineendokrin
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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: Ravus]
    #3692658 - 01/28/05 08:27 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
They should know that with the society of America today this wouldn't be accepted, gays can't even get married, less likely appear on children's cartoons.




So, Americans who believe in something which is currently being repressed by the government should just lay down because their beliefs clash? If we did that, nothing would ever change.
************************************************************************

Maybe gay couples shouldn't be portrayed in a cartoon for children, but maybe you and I think that only becuase we never saw it in a cartoon either.

If you don't think this sort of thing should be shown to children, the question arises: When, then, is the appropriate time to introduce to children the fact that gay couples exist?

Should we keep them on the "straight" and narrow? Should we expose them only to the sexual orientation of the majority, ignoring any minorities? Is it better, to produce a more 'stable' child, that we teach them as little as possible to get by, hoping they can make it through childhood and begin to form their own opinions? This 'condensed soup' approach is likely to produce failure: Campbell's condensed tomato is much cheaper and easier to produce, but wouldn't you rather have Progresso's Chicken with Wild Rice?

Where do we draw the line between simply exposing a child's mind to all the possibilities out there in the world and forcing our own opinions upon the young mind? In my view, selectively limiting the information a child receives is in itself a form of 'opinion shaping'. By not exposing the child to certain facts of life (in this case, gay couples), you are admitting to the child that the only real, correct form of union is the marriage between a man and a women. What do you expect to happen when this child grows up and begins to form his/her own opinions? Will the result be what you hoped for? Will this person enter the world with an open mind, free of prejudices and hate? No, he or she will be biased, will be prejudiced, and this will stem from a fear: fear of the unknown.

The answer, I believe, lies somewhere in the realm of: It should be up to the educated, informed parent of the child to choose when it is appropriate, based upon that parent's beliefs, to expose the child to such facts as gay couples. I would hope the parent would choose sooner rather than later. I can assure you the answer does not lie, however, in the hands of the BuSh administration.

Education is the key! The more you know!


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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: StonedShroom]
    #3693312 - 01/28/05 11:55 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

If this show is going to be aired, how did they "yank" it?

What if this cartoon featured some KKK members? Would you all be in favor of that as it's just showing the multiplex of interesting characters that live in our world?


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Offlinedeafpanda
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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: StonedShroom]
    #3693348 - 01/28/05 12:08 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I don't understand why people think children shouldn't learn about sex until a certain age. It's dumb.


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Offline13eetleJuice
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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: SoopaX]
    #3694250 - 01/28/05 04:41 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

That's a mighty fine comparison of gay relationships to the Klu Klux Klan. Oh yes, of course you're absolutely correct. Those damn gays are just as evil and as much a plague on the human race as a bunch of redneck white supremesists running around in bedsheets stringing up "them niggers" from oak trees. [/endsarcasm]


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OfflineCatalysis
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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: 13eetleJuice]
    #3694290 - 01/28/05 04:53 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Apperantly im just not being clear enough. My point is I don't understand why we are even having this discussion. I don't understand why people are making a direct effort to include various sexual preferences in a children's cartoon. As if we have some kind of duty to "sensitize" them at an early age for living in our culture.

Basically, I don't think cartoons and entertainment are the right medium to attempt to "acclimate" our children. Besides the fact that when I just want to sit down and watch some fun TV with my kid, I don't want to start having a discussion about why suzy likes to lick pussy. I don't care if its straight or gay, thats what I mean when i say its simply an inappropriate forum. There is a time and a place for that stuff.

To be perfectly honest, I actually don't mind one way or another. Im trying to present the typical parent's opinion which is somewhat understandable to me.


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Offline13eetleJuice
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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: Catalysis]
    #3694306 - 01/28/05 04:57 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I totally agree with you on that very valid point. I think cartoons should be merely for the child's own entertainment but as you can see our government has a hand in that just like everything else. The government funds PBS to "educate" the children through use of these cartoons and if PBS doesn't teach what the government wants they will as you can see refuse to fund them. Propaganda some might say.


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OfflineCatalysis
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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: 13eetleJuice]
    #3695018 - 01/28/05 06:56 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Yes, you are totally right and that is a boundary that i am finding hard to even define where i stand. I am an avid supporter of smaller government and less intervention in our lives. However, just recently i have begun to understand people who would simply prefer not to be bombarded by sexuality everywhere they go. There is something to be said for non-sexual, non-violent, good entertainment. I guess its because i have sex on a daily basis that i like to enjoy non-sexual moments in life. Im afraid of that type of entertainment being replaced by people who want to get a hard-on from superbowl half-time shows and pseudo-reality shows.

Ideally, people should use thier own judgment to know what they are watching and make the decision to watch it or not. That would take government control totally out of the picture and put more responsibility on people, which i always like. The only problem is people slipping in certain things like this cartoon show which kind of threatens the whole honor system. Lets face it, the most likely reason for putting lesbians in a children's cartoon is to make a point about sexuality where as putting a male/female couple would simply make sense because the child's parents are probably a male/female couple. You can make the argument that gays can adopt etc., but i think you see my point.


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Offline13eetleJuice
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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: Catalysis]
    #3695302 - 01/28/05 07:56 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

No, I don't see your point. Whats the difference if in a cartoon as the kids are out playing and riding thier bikes down the street they pass by a married heterosexual couple on the sidewalk and say the female has her arm around her husbands waist and he has his arm around her shoulders and they are both facing in the direction of the street watching the children but obviously sharing a moment of casual embrace between one another. Now, take that same scenario and insert a homosexual couple who are doing this very same thing. How is this example, any different, wrong, or in threat of this honor system you speak of?


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OfflineCatalysis
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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: 13eetleJuice]
    #3695382 - 01/28/05 08:16 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I think im coming off in the wrong way. Its not that its "wrong" per se. My point is that when a couple is presented in a children's cartoon show, it is usually totally devoid of sexual innuendo and most likely related to the parental/family structure. However, when people start intentionally inserting gay characters, while it may be devoid of sexual innuendo, thier intent is most likely to influence a response from the child about the relationship that will inevitably progress to the sexual conotations of the situation being questioned. Basically, they are not introducing gay characters just because it reflects real life and they think the child will best identify with this and, therefore, appreciate the cartoon. They are doing it to intentionally illicit a response as to the nature of the relationship from children in an attempt to further thier agenda of "adapting" these impressionable youths into a model of society that they think is best. I think that is wrong.

What ever happened to stuff like thundercats, fraggle rock, sesame street, superman....cartoons that really tried to influence root values like just being nice and helping everyone. Now we have to directly teach 5 year olds about homosexuality and racism? What happened to preserving the innocence of youth in the hopes of raising a generation that is better than us in every way?

I guess that the "progressives" will just have to find out that teaching children about differences will only make them differentiate. I believe that only by preserving our children's conceptions will we defeat prejudice and hatred. I mean, do children hate? do they have the same prejudices as adults? or are those just "differences" learned over time?


Edited by Catalysis (01/28/05 08:28 PM)


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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: Catalysis]
    #3695744 - 01/28/05 09:50 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I have a number of points I would like to touch on in regards to your recent post. First I'd like to point out what I thought should be the obvious which is the fact that young children view the coupling of adult pairs in a different light than we as adults do. Many young children who do not yet have a grasp on the intricacies of sexual relationships will view my aforementioned example without regard and just "accept" it as being normal.

You spoke of preserving the innocence of youth. To do so you must keep them in the dark about the world. So it's the same as to say you want to preserve the ignorance of youth. This is not going to bring about the generation that is better than us in every way that you so hope for. How can we hope them to surpass us if we seek to hide from them the truths about the world which they will certainly find out one day for themselves and by then it may be too late for they have already formed their prejudices.

You also mentioned cartoons that influence root values like being nice and helping everyone. Doesn't everyone include homosexuals? Shouldn't they be allowed the "acceptance" I spoke of earlier? You said that you believed the only way to deafeat prejudiced and hatred was to preserve our children's conceptions. What conceptions are you referring to? That man and woman come together in marriage and make a family and that's the way it should be and anything outside of this union is somehow abnormal?

If this is your thinking that's fine. You certainly have the right to your own opinion. Because it is abnormal. It's un-natural. Some homosexuals may not like to hear this but it certainly isn't the way nature intended it.

But, whatever natures intentions are, it's irrelevant for we are complex emotional creatures. We are dealing with people and for one reason or another some of the people we inhabit this planet with prefer to be with a same sex partner and we need to learn to accept this and not judge them for thier choices. We also need to show our children from the start that it's normal that they will encounter these people and they are no different than anyone else but thier sexual orientation.

I can understand you wanting to protect your children and believe it or not I hold many of the same values as you. I personally want to see my children grow up, marry someone of the opposite sex, and start making me some grandchildren. But, what I want first and foremost is for them to be happy. And if happy for them is with a same sex partner then that's fine by me. And just to clue you in to a little about me, I'm a single heterosexual male with no children. I say this only to show you that I possess the very same morals and values that you do it just seems we only differ on the subject of child rearing. :smile:


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: Catalysis]
    #3695775 - 01/28/05 09:59 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I guess that the "progressives" will just have to find out that teaching children about differences will only make them differentiate.

I don't follow your logic here. Should they have not put Gordon (the black guy), on Sesame Street, because it just taught kids to think black people are different?

I think they should include homosexual couples on children's programs, but they should be treated exactly the same as heterosexual couples are, that way, the children don't learn to see them as something strange and different, but just as other members of society.

I'm not sure your argument here has any real basis. Are you honestly suggesting that by not exposing children to the idea of homosexual couples, they're going to treat homosexual couples as more normal?

If that were true, wouldn't it mean that meeting a human who could fly would seem more normal now than if I hadn't been exposed to flying people in the past?


--------------------
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OfflineCatalysis
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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: 13eetleJuice]
    #3695838 - 01/28/05 10:17 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Well here im in the position of not wholly agreeing with either side of the argument.  I disagree that we should intentionally incorperate these issues of prejudice into our children's entertainment, however you guys are correct in saying that homosexuality is not a bad thing.  Im trying to convey that i agree with that.  Actually I completely agree 100% with you on child rearing and if my (hypothetical) child is happy being gay, thats great.  Both my cousin and one of my step-sisters are homosexual and I have great relationships with them and they are very happy.  I am (maybe badly) trying to convey that this is less of a "hot button" issue of progressive parenting than it is simply an inappropriate incorporation of issues that really don't need to be addressed at that age, in my opinion.

Also, I understand your point about gordon on sesame street and i disagree with adding a black guy if its just for the sake of having "that one black guy" so kids can adapt to it.  Shit, Ernie was like orange and Bert was yellow.  Cookie monster was fucking blue for christ sake lol. Who was "the white guy"?  Should they have made characters with malcom X crosses and ku klux klan hoods to demonstrate racism better?  Where does it stop?

edit: and yes, ive heard about them trying to put an HIV positive character on sesame street.  In my mind, they have totally lost thier way.  Pretty soon they are going to have the marine puppet and the muslim so they can "get with the times" because they are just so progressive.  :rolleyes:

Maybe if we introduce are kids to racial and social divisions at an earlier age they will somehow learn that we are all the same.  Im not sure how but i guess that is the trend so we will see how it turns out.


Edited by Catalysis (01/28/05 10:39 PM)


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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: 13eetleJuice]
    #3696079 - 01/28/05 11:39 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

13eetleJuice said:
That's a mighty fine comparison of gay relationships to the Klu Klux Klan. Oh yes, of course you're absolutely correct. Those damn gays are just as evil and as much a plague on the human race as a bunch of redneck white supremesists running around in bedsheets stringing up "them niggers" from oak trees. [/endsarcasm]




i'm not saying that they must portray them in a positive light. do you want your kids exposed to that at a young age, or would you rather them preserve thier 'innocence' until they are old enough to understand what you are explaining to them?


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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: SoopaX]
    #3696083 - 01/28/05 11:40 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I'm sure plenty of kids saw the South Park episode that had the KKK in it.


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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: Paou]
    #3696084 - 01/28/05 11:41 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Was it funded by tax dollars?


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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: SoopaX]
    #3696091 - 01/28/05 11:43 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

No. Was this? I didn't catch that part.


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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: Paou]
    #3696097 - 01/28/05 11:46 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Well its PBS so i think they are a government funded channel but im not sure about the details.

Quote:

i'm not saying that they must portray them in a positive light. do you want your kids exposed to that at a young age, or would you rather them preserve thier 'innocence' until they are old enough to understand what you are explaining to them?




Thats my problem. I think the whole point of some of this is to try and expose the kids to this stuff BEFORE they are old enough to understand it so we can "mold" them into the people we want them to be.


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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: SoopaX]
    #3696098 - 01/28/05 11:46 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

SoopaX said:
Quote:

13eetleJuice said:
That's a mighty fine comparison of gay relationships to the Klu Klux Klan. Oh yes, of course you're absolutely correct. Those damn gays are just as evil and as much a plague on the human race as a bunch of redneck white supremesists running around in bedsheets stringing up "them niggers" from oak trees. [/endsarcasm]




i'm not saying that they must portray them in a positive light. do you want your kids exposed to that at a young age, or would you rather them preserve thier 'innocence' until they are old enough to understand what you are explaining to them?




I've already answered that question in post #3695744. Feel free to read it if you'd actually like to know the answer. I however feel you assumed this an obvious answer and meant it as a rhetorical question. Nevertheless we do share a difference in opinion but hey, that's a good thing. Democracy in action. Majority rules and all that shit. I'm all for it. *goes off to wave the flag*


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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: Paou]
    #3696121 - 01/28/05 11:57 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Yes. Southpark is also explicitly not for children, while this was. Apples and Garlic cloves.


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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: 13eetleJuice]
    #3696125 - 01/28/05 11:59 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

13eetleJuice said:
No, I don't see your point. Whats the difference if in a cartoon as the kids are out playing and riding thier bikes down the street they pass by a married heterosexual couple on the sidewalk and say the female has her arm around her husbands waist and he has his arm around her shoulders and they are both facing in the direction of the street watching the children but obviously sharing a moment of casual embrace between one another. Now, take that same scenario and insert a homosexual couple who are doing this very same thing. How is this example, any different, wrong, or in threat of this honor system you speak of?




Lets say that it's five people who are planning an orgy. All of them are hugging and kissing each other in a way that would be acceptable for children to view heterosexual couples. Good or bad? Or too "mature' for their mindsets?


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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: SoopaX]
    #3696132 - 01/29/05 12:03 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

What is acceptable is subjective to who you ask but whatever is acceptable in a cartoon for a heterosexual couple should be acceptable for a homosexual couple. If you can't see this then you have a prejudice against homosexuals whether you realize it or not. That is all.


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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: 13eetleJuice]
    #3696140 - 01/29/05 12:05 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Watch Ren & Stimpy sometime. It's full of homosexual undertones.


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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: 13eetleJuice]
    #3696141 - 01/29/05 12:06 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

So what about four men all kissing and hugging. Acceptable or not?


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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: SoopaX]
    #3696162 - 01/29/05 12:18 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Well, I'm not sure what context you're referring too when you say "all kissing and huggin". Are they doing so in a loving embrace such as you might see a married couple do at the front door just before the man gets in the car heads off to work? Or are they doing so in a fashion that might resemble a teenage boy and girl going at it with groping hands, heavy breathing, and lots of tongue?

It's still irellevant either way. If something is deemed by you as acceptable for a hetero couple but the very same thing is not acceptable for a homo couple then you have prejudices. And it's ok if you do. You are entitled to your opinion and I would expect someone who harbors prejudices against others to want to teach this same thing to thier children. And that's fine as well. That is what is so great about this country. It doesn't however make it right.


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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: 13eetleJuice]
    #3697055 - 01/29/05 05:28 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

:loveeyes: 13eetlejuice :heartpump: 

I love reading your posts.:oogle:


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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: StonedShroom]
    #3697529 - 01/29/05 08:41 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

What if the eposode got taken off the air because an interracial couple happend in to the show? Whould that change things?

What about showing a black person as anything other then 'the help'.

Basicly, the people in power currently want gay people to be viewed as a plague, the second class citizans. This is accomplished by things like making sure any refference to gay's in children's media is contested. (to make sure that it is preceived as dirty, or not sutable for children because it it incorrect)

The part about this whole non cence that really gets me, is that they justify disrespecting gays because they have a 'choice' in the matter. It would be like telling black people to become more pure, like Michael Jackson.

"Ya see nows, them could take the high road and bleach there personality away, but they just gotsta be a mockery and keeps there nigger coloured skin."


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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: Catalysis]
    #3697640 - 01/29/05 09:35 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)


Also, I understand your point about gordon on sesame street and i disagree with adding a black guy if its just for the sake of having "that one black guy" so kids can adapt to it. Shit, Ernie was like orange and Bert was yellow. Cookie monster was fucking blue for christ sake lol. Who was "the white guy"? Should they have made characters with malcom X crosses and ku klux klan hoods to demonstrate racism better? Where does it stop?


The point isn't to show differences though, or to demonstrate racism. It's to present the similarities. Gordon was certainly black, but he was a friendly Seasame Street dude, just like all the other people on the show. They didn't bring him on and say "this is the BLACK GUY".

We've reached a point in time where we've been so innundated with political correctness that it's started to seem ridiculous, and people are lashing out against it. But they forget that there are some benefits. It's stupid to have a multicultural cast on a sitcom just so that you can represent all ethnic groups, but it's not stupid to have a few different people on a children's show, so that children learn not to treat outsiders suspiciously when they grow old.

It's important to remember that, despite its faults, political correctness began to address a very real set of problems, and by directly attacking political correctness in children's television, we're promoting those problems rather than addressing the negative issues related to political correctness.

Who was "the white guy"?

David and Mr. Hooper were both white.

HIV positive muppets, and a muslim muppet would be silly because it's trying to explain complex issues to kids. Having people that look different, or have different kinds of families is fine, but there's no way a five year old is going to pick up the details of religious or health issues.


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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: SoopaX]
    #3697654 - 01/29/05 09:38 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Lets say that it's five people who are planning an orgy. All of them are hugging and kissing each other in a way that would be acceptable for children to view heterosexual couples. Good or bad? Or too "mature' for their mindsets?

That's a dumb question. "Planning an orgy" in a manner that would be acceptable for children to view if they were heterosexual couples?

Do you even think before typing?


--------------------
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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: Catalysis]
    #3697663 - 01/29/05 09:40 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Thats my problem. I think the whole point of some of this is to try and expose the kids to this stuff BEFORE they are old enough to understand it so we can "mold" them into the people we want them to be.

Well, that's the whole idea behind the concept of "education".

Is it wrong to teach children not to steal at an early age because it's just forcing them to behave the way we want them to be?


--------------------
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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: Catalysis]
    #3697700 - 01/29/05 09:48 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I wouldn't say that american media is filled with sex. American media is probably the most sexaphobic and repressed, in the entire industrialized world. That's not to say it isn't filled with titillation, there are scantily clad, gyrating women to spare, but there's rarely any frank discussion or depiction of sex.

Most other countries, including Canada and most of Europe, have softcore (even hardcore in some places) porn on late at night, sex talk shows where people discuss technique and safety, and even ("Won't somebody think of the children!?") naked female breasts on primetime television... and sometimes in commercials.

Yet somehow the US still manages to have the highest teen pregnancy rate in the industrialized world.

Coincidence?

The USA is like a nation of Catholic school girls.


--------------------
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http://phluck.is-after.us


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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: StonedShroom]
    #3697707 - 01/29/05 09:50 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I do not know if anybody has mentioned it yet but this show contains live scenes. Buster visits different real places like maple sugar farms. What may have happened is the owners, employees or friends of the owners are gay.

I am sure this is not the creators intentionally drawing gay characters but just people in the real world.


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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: phreakyzen]
    #3697740 - 01/29/05 09:59 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, that makes the controversy even dumber.

That means they're actively trying to prevent kids from being exposed to same sex couples.


--------------------
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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: Phluck]
    #3697769 - 01/29/05 10:14 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Cable-(Mtv)-is the place for lesbos not PBS.


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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: California]
    #3697776 - 01/29/05 10:18 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Why?


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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: California]
    #3697780 - 01/29/05 10:19 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Oregon said:
Cable-(Mtv)-is the place for lesbos not PBS.



There's a big difference between showing hot lesbians getting it on in a music video and simply showing a lesbian couple going about their normal day.


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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: Paou]
    #3697887 - 01/29/05 10:49 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

PBS=Public Broadcasting System, Mtv=private media company.
PBS=Funded in part by our tax dollars, Mtv=funded by crappy commercialism.
Context is definitely an issue, but there is a proper time and place for everything.


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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: California]
    #3697907 - 01/29/05 10:54 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Last time I checked, homosexuals pay taxes too.


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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: Paou]
    #3697936 - 01/29/05 11:01 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Majority RULES!


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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: California]
    #3697943 - 01/29/05 11:04 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Actually, the majority sucks.


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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: California]
    #3697948 - 01/29/05 11:05 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

So if the majority wanted to actively demonize homosexuals, should we do that too?

The majority isn't always right.


--------------------
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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: Phluck]
    #3697973 - 01/29/05 11:10 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I am not saying the majority is RIGHT. I say they RULE, and they do, and will continue to do so until they become the minority.


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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: California]
    #3698001 - 01/29/05 11:16 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Well, obviously they don't rule that much if homosexuals are on PBS.


--------------------
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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: Phluck]
    #3698008 - 01/29/05 11:18 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

The article said they were mad because they weren't on PBS?


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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: California]
    #3698031 - 01/29/05 11:23 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

WGBH, the Boston public television station that produces the show, has not changed course following Spellings' actions. The station plans to air the episode March 23 and make it available to other stations.


--------------------
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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: Phluck]
    #3698090 - 01/29/05 11:37 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

We'll see March 23 then.


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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: California]
    #3703168 - 01/30/05 05:12 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Homosexuals are gay if you ask me.


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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: el_duderino]
    #12741876 - 06/14/10 02:28 PM (10 years, 28 days ago)

Well. . .To be fair, lesbian couples ARE a scientifically proven threat to the failings of the heterosexual family unit.


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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: Blushing_Bunny]
    #12741951 - 06/14/10 02:43 PM (10 years, 28 days ago)

5 year old thread, lol


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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #12741986 - 06/14/10 02:49 PM (10 years, 28 days ago)

There's plenty of links out there discussing the dangers of homosexuallity.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=homosexuals+dangers&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=610e7dd948e54cca


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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: GI_Luvmoney]
    #12742239 - 06/14/10 03:37 PM (10 years, 28 days ago)

Bet I can find more on the dangers of heterosexuality. :lol:


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Re: Bush Administration Yanked PBS Cartoon for Showing Lesbian Couples [Re: Icelander]
    #12743225 - 06/14/10 06:44 PM (10 years, 28 days ago)

Bet I can find more on the dangers of fear and censorship. :laugh:


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