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Offlinemonkeyking
Stranger
Registered: 01/06/05
Posts: 23
Last seen: 18 years, 10 months
Kratom- false positive for opiates?
    #3683207 - 01/26/05 01:23 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

I've got a buddy that is convinced that kratom will cause you to test positive for opiates. I did a seach and some people were unsure while others that it was a stupid question. I've got a job that tests "randomly" (usually people under 30). Then when we change and get a new contract we get tested at the new site, so I really don't want to risk it. Can anybody help me out?


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"My Fear Is My Only Courage" Bob Marley

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Offlinedelta9
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Registered: 10/28/04
Posts: 5,390
Loc: California
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: Kratom- false positive for opiates? [Re: monkeyking]
    #3683220 - 01/26/05 01:25 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

This topic was just discussed in this forum, I believe, and it can indeed give false positives, according to mjshroomer, but we're waiting for sources and such. Let me see if I can find the thread.


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delta9

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Offlinedelta9
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Registered: 10/28/04
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Re: Kratom- false positive for opiates? [Re: delta9]
    #3683231 - 01/26/05 01:27 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Uh, do you even read your own threads? Failing a drug test for legal herbs


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delta9

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Invisiblegdman
badger, badger,badger...
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Registered: 12/10/02
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Re: Kratom- false positive for opiates? [Re: monkeyking]
    #3683310 - 01/26/05 01:45 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

I don't know, mjshroomer says yeah, but I have my doubts. I don't think he responded in that thread after those posts. Granted, he knows quite abit, but no one knows everything :wink:. If he proves me wrong I'll shut up :smile:. It just does not make sense, the alkaloids in kratom or more similer to psilocybin and yhombine that to morphine or codine. The opiate tests test for morphine metabolites.


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Offlinedelta9
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Re: Kratom- false positive for opiates? [Re: gdman]
    #3683370 - 01/26/05 01:55 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

*nod* Neuro raised some good chemical points as well, so I am waiting to see what mj comes back with :smile:


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delta9

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OfflineHolly
pastede on yay

Registered: 12/13/04
Posts: 37
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
Re: Kratom- false positive for opiates? [Re: delta9]
    #3684837 - 01/26/05 06:43 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Whoo. I just took a drug test for a new job and did some Kratom soon afterwards. I'm glad I didn't do it in the other order...


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Future events such as these will affect you in the future...

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Invisiblezerozero
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Registered: 08/31/04
Posts: 782
Re: Kratom- false positive for opiates? [Re: Holly]
    #3687347 - 01/27/05 02:36 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

i think i should do some krantom and take a drug test, just for fun, to see the outcome. and i think i should tell the doctor to look for krantom and ignore all the THC. :smirk:

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Offlinemonkeyking
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Registered: 01/06/05
Posts: 23
Last seen: 18 years, 10 months
Re: Kratom- false positive for opiates? [Re: zerozero]
    #3687422 - 01/27/05 03:10 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks guys I'm going to ask erowid and see if they know for sure,
Delta9, I did read my own post, but no one was sure, after talking to a buddy who was convinced I thought I would ask again specifally on kratom


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"My Fear Is My Only Courage" Bob Marley

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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Kratom- false positive for opiates? [Re: monkeyking]
    #3688677 - 01/27/05 01:41 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Doesnt kratom act on the kappa sigmoid receptors. If it does im sure it would be a false positive.

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Offlineneuro
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Re: Kratom- false positive for opiates? [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #3690104 - 01/27/05 06:45 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

>>Doesnt kratom act on the kappa sigmoid receptors. If it does im sure it would be a false positive.

This is a wrong assumption. Just because a chemical acts on a receptor doesn't mean it causes false positives.


With the large group of chemicals we have found that act on opiate receptors and the varying subtypes, Salvinorin, Opiate Narcotics, and what we call Opioids like the Fentanyls, it is no longer safe to say that a chemical that acts on opiate receptors will be structurally similar to the classical opiates like morphine and codeine. And this is the key to the detection of drugs, specifically drug metabolites, in urine: their structure. Fentanyls are very much different than the classical opiates like morphine and codeine. Thus a new immunoassay must be developed, that is new antibodies must be produced that bind to the fentanyl structures.

Drug tests work by testing for metabolites of illegal drugs.

When a drug is ingested by the body it goes through several modifications. These modifications are usually done with first (in some cases) digestive juices and enzymes and second peripheral circulatory and cellular enzymes or liver enzymes not included in the initial digestive pass.

The enzymes that act on drugs are sometimes specific and sometimes not, for example MAOIs have certain wide affects on drugs Indoles and Phenethylamines aren't too closely related but MAOIs of a certain type will act on both.


Drug detection works by proceeding through a specific chemical reaction called an immunoassay. Drug-test dip sticks contain antibodies, that are produced in test animals or cell cultures as part of the immune system, on them that can bind with drug metabolites of a specific type.

An example:

Morphine can be made into heroin (diacetylmorphine) by the addition of two acetyl groups. Heroin, after injection, smoking, etc.. is quickly metabolized in the body to 6-acetylmorphine by the removal of one acetyl group and, then, morphine after the removal of the second acetyl group.

These antibodies, that are made for the testing device, are made to specifically bind to a drug such as morphine. However, the morphine antibody will also bind drugs that are very similar in chemical structure to morphine. Codeine is very similar in chemical structure to morphine, as are three synthetic narcotics: Dilaudid (hydromorphone), Percodan (oxycodone), and Vicodin (hydrocodone). The immunoassay screening tests for opiates will detect to varying degrees all of these narcotics. The synthetic narcotics Darvon (propoxyphene), Demerol (meperidine), and methadone are not detected by the opiate immunoassays.

Heroin, morphine, codeine, Dilaudid, Percodan and Vicodin are all narcotic analgesics that can be abused and are addictive. A positive morphine screen with test stick kits can be caused by any of these drugs and, also, consumption of several teaspoons of poppy seeds. This is true with all opiate immunoassays, whether lab or on-site rapid screens.

A comparison of Morphine and Kratom Alkaloid:






On a side note:

However, the 6-acetylmorphine metabolite is detectable in urine for only several hours after use of heroin, while morphine is detectable above the 2,000 ng/mL for about a day. It has been shown that consumption of poppy seeds in most cases will not result in a morphine concentration of 2,000 ng/mL or greater. With no 6-acetylmorphine found, detecting the presence of morphine or codeine. Codeine can be present from use of codeine and from use of heroin. If the codeine level is higher than the morphine level, the source is probably codeine use. Raising the cutoff for opiates from 300 ng/mL to 2,000 ng/mL reduces the time window of detection for heroin, morphine and codeine to about a day after use. It, also, eliminates most poppy seed positives.

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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Kratom- false positive for opiates? [Re: neuro]
    #3693551 - 01/28/05 12:57 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

thank you for clearing that up.

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Offlinefalseliberty
Prophet
Registered: 01/20/05
Posts: 30
Loc: Not The U.S.
Last seen: 19 years, 1 month
Re: Kratom- false positive for opiates? [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #3694912 - 01/28/05 06:33 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Ya thanks neuro, very informative


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"You better hope we've got some Thorazine in this bag or your in some big f*cking trouble." Hunter S. Thompson

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Offlinegarbage

Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 316
Last seen: 11 months, 22 days
Re: Kratom- false positive for opiates? [Re: falseliberty]
    #3695755 - 01/28/05 09:54 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

nice post neuro.


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  Vaporbrothers :smile:

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