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OfflineSWEDEN
Miracle of Science

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 2,577
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: Braveheart Bush [Re: Swami]
    #3684769 - 01/26/05 06:24 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

(Pst... that is a sign that he knows you are right and wants to move the debate in another direction to try and cover his own ass!)


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
Re: Braveheart Bush [Re: Paou]
    #3684794 - 01/26/05 06:36 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Paou said:
Quote:

snoopaloop53 said:
that is not what i'm saying, i'm saying yes it's bad there but you are just focusing on small areas getting a lot of news and not the larger areas getting a little news



First of all, Baghdad is NOT a small area. It's about the size of Los Angeles. Second, the other areas(which are much less populated, btw) are irrelevant in this discussion. That's like complaining about the media focusing on the L.A. riots by saying they're not focusing on all the areas in the US that aren't rioting. How did you manage to pass grade school?




So roughly 75% of the population of iraq is irrelevant in a discussion about a national Iraqi election? Try not to insult people about intelligence while sounding like you have the intelligence of a carrot.

Also that straw man argument doesn't make you look any smarter.


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I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Braveheart Bush [Re: d33p]
    #3684840 - 01/26/05 06:44 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Recent tests have shown the average carrot to have an IQ of 130. Read about it here.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisiblePaou
Seeker

Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 376
Loc: Transcendence
Re: Braveheart Bush [Re: d33p]
    #3684852 - 01/26/05 06:47 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

d33p said:
Quote:

Paou said:
Quote:

snoopaloop53 said:
that is not what i'm saying, i'm saying yes it's bad there but you are just focusing on small areas getting a lot of news and not the larger areas getting a little news



First of all, Baghdad is NOT a small area. It's about the size of Los Angeles. Second, the other areas(which are much less populated, btw) are irrelevant in this discussion. That's like complaining about the media focusing on the L.A. riots by saying they're not focusing on all the areas in the US that aren't rioting. How did you manage to pass grade school?




So roughly 75% of the population of iraq is irrelevant in a discussion about a national Iraqi election? Try not to insult people about intelligence while sounding like you have the intelligence of a carrot.

Also that straw man argument doesn't make you look any smarter.



What straw man? He's the one trying to divert the attention away from the discussion of the violence in Iraq. Of course the majority of the population is not affected by that. But if 75% of the population isn't affected, that means 25% is, which is a huge portion.

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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
Re: Braveheart Bush [Re: Swami]
    #3684883 - 01/26/05 06:54 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Recent tests have shown the average carrot to have an IQ of 130. Read about it here.




:lol: i like your sense of humor; your politics, not so much.


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I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Braveheart Bush [Re: d33p]
    #3684899 - 01/26/05 06:57 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

I am guessing that none of your friends or relatives has yet to be killed in Iraq.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: Braveheart Bush [Re: Swami]
    #3684930 - 01/26/05 07:07 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Swami writes:

All one has to do is read the daily news in which Iraqi police are killed, polling sights are bombed and those encouraging the vote have their throat's slit.

And what do these facts tell you? Especially coupled with Zarqawi's recently delivered rant about how democracy is the enemy of Islam.

Kind of makes those claiming the ones setting carbombs and beheading people are just poor pissed off Iraqis upset that the Americans deposed Hussein look pretty stupid, doesn't it. Anyone with the intelligence God gave a carrot can tell that the last thing these dead-enders want to see is the Iraqi populace deciding for themselves which 275 Iraqis will represent them under a federal republic form of self-ruled free nation.

Phred


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
Re: Braveheart Bush [Re: Paou]
    #3684945 - 01/26/05 07:10 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Paou said:
What straw man? He's the one trying to divert the attention away from the discussion of the violence in Iraq. Of course the majority of the population is not affected by that. But if 75% of the population isn't affected, that means 25% is, which is a huge portion.





The straw man where you compared the situation to one with los angles. The differences are so staggering that it cannot even be compared in principle. Seriously just admit that the comparison was retarded and lets move on.

I wasn't saying only 25% is being affected, that 25% is just the population that makes up Baghdad. But i digress, that number is meaningless as the estimate of the voting population is 16 million, out which who knows how many are affected. But to say that all areas other than Baghdad are irrelevant is down rite retarded. Heck, the population of Baghdad is only roughly 5.7 million.

And i will repeat myself once again; why do you all think the insurgency is so bad? If you take two seconds to think about the amount of munitions lying around and the estimated number of insurgents you too would be surprised at how reserved the insurgency is. I wouldn't have been surprised if hundreds were dying every day in attacks. I think the situation is going fairly well.


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I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang

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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: Braveheart Bush [Re: Swami]
    #3684948 - 01/26/05 07:11 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Swami writes:

Do a search of the Archives where I predicted Halliburton (and other powerful assoicates) would get the lion's share of the Iraqi contracts about ONE YEAR before the NO-BID contracts were "awarded" and long before Moore's expose.

This "prediction" is supposed to impress us? It was no secret that Halliburton had been re-awarded the no-bid contracts while Clinton was still president and that the term of the contract had not yet expired. A simple Google search would have shown that. Moore didn't "expose" a thing with his homage to Leni Riefenstahl.

Big whoop.


Phred


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
Re: Braveheart Bush [Re: Swami]
    #3684970 - 01/26/05 07:17 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
I am guessing that none of your friends or relatives has yet to be killed in Iraq.




Please answer these two questions.

If you lived in Iraq and your brother was killed by stray debris from a tomahawk explosion how would you feel and what would you do?

If you lived in Iraq and your brother was killed by a car bomb set by insurgents how would you feel and what would you do?


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I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang

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InvisiblePaou
Seeker

Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 376
Loc: Transcendence
Re: Braveheart Bush [Re: d33p]
    #3684971 - 01/26/05 07:17 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

d33p said:
The straw man where you compared the situation to one with los angles. The differences are so staggering that it cannot even be compared in principle. Seriously just admit that the comparison was retarded and lets move on.



What's retarded about it? It was only to point out his straw man in saying that we weren't focusing on the part of Iraw where violence isn't going on. Why should we focus on that part? That's not the part we need to worry about.

Quote:

I wasn't saying only 25% is being affected, that 25% is just the population that makes up Baghdad. But i digress, that number is meaningless as the estimate of the voting population is 16 million, out which who knows how many are affected. But to say that all areas other than Baghdad are irrelevant is down rite retarded. Heck, the population of Baghdad is only roughly 5.7 million.



I didn't say they were irrelevant period. I said they were irrelevant to the discussion. If there's nothing going on there, there's nothing to discuss.

Quote:

And i will repeat myself once again; why do you all think the insurgency is so bad? If you take two seconds to think about the amount of munitions lying around and the estimated number of insurgents you too would be surprised at how reserved the insurgency is. I wouldn't have been surprised if hundreds were dying every day in attacks. I think the situation is going fairly well.



Yet another irrelevant straw man argument. The fact that the insurgency could be worse does not matter so long as it is bad enough to prevent a large portion of the population from voting.

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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: Braveheart Bush [Re: Swami]
    #3684988 - 01/26/05 07:20 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Swami writes:

And what is up with Iraqi-Americans being able to vote for an Iraqi leader?

Gee, I don't know. What's up with American-Germans being allowed to vote for the US leader? i can see an Iraqi who moved to America and renounced his Iraqi citizenship being disallowed from voting, just as I can see an American who moved to Germany and renounced his American citizenship being disallowed from voting.

I can't see an Iraqi citizen who managed to flee the country of his citizenship a day ahead of Hussein's wood chipper feeders being denied the right to vote for someone to replace the thug who stole his country. If ever there was a real case of disenfranchisement, that would qualify -- not this whiny American Democrat-style "disenfranchisement" where having to stand in line for four hours is food for the outraged bloviations of sore losers.

You apparently feel differently. Oh well. Takes all kinds to make a world.



Phred


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Braveheart Bush [Re: Phred]
    #3685053 - 01/26/05 07:33 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Do you believe a naturalized Iraqi-Amercian should be able to vote for leaders in two different counrties?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/13/03
Posts: 13,673
Loc: Smokey Mtns. TN Flag
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: Braveheart Bush [Re: Swami]
    #3685080 - 01/26/05 07:37 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Swami you need to come in P&L more often.

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Offline13eetleJuice
the ghost with the most
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/28/04
Posts: 2,253
Loc: 6' under pushin up shroom...
Last seen: 5 years, 4 months
Re: Braveheart Bush [Re: Phred]
    #3685386 - 01/26/05 08:22 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

pinksharkmark said:
Swami writes:

And what is up with Iraqi-Americans being able to vote for an Iraqi leader?

Gee, I don't know. What's up with American-Germans being allowed to vote for the US leader? i can see an Iraqi who moved to America and renounced his Iraqi citizenship being disallowed from voting, just as I can see an American who moved to Germany and renounced his American citizenship being disallowed from voting.

I can't see an Iraqi citizen who managed to flee the country of his citizenship a day ahead of Hussein's wood chipper feeders being denied the right to vote for someone to replace the thug who stole his country. If ever there was a real case of disenfranchisement, that would qualify -- not this whiny American Democrat-style "disenfranchisement" where having to stand in line for four hours is food for the outraged bloviations of sore losers.

You apparently feel differently. Oh well. Takes all kinds to make a world.



pinky




I was just watching the news yesterday and they were covering a story about an American citizen that came here from Iraq 17 years ago. The big discussion was how hard it was on him because he had to travel over 150 miles to register to vote in the Iraqi elections and then return just two weeks later to actually cast his vote. You say yourself you can see where he should be disallowed from voting but the fact is that he isn't. In fact he is being encouraged to vote. And can you imagine why? Just who do you think he's going to vote for?


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
Re: Braveheart Bush [Re: Paou]
    #3685528 - 01/26/05 08:43 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Paou said:
What's retarded about it? It was only to point out his straw man in saying that we weren't focusing on the part of Iraw where violence isn't going on. Why should we focus on that part? That's not the part we need to worry about.




You said during the LA riots it would be stupid to mention the peace occurring elsewhere in the US.... duh, the riot is restricted to LA, unlike the insurgency. Also the media is not analogous to people. The media has certain practices that determine what they focus on.

But I've come to the conclusion that this debate was based on a misunderstanding and has just snowballed. Snoop was originally saying that swami was overplaying the violence in Iraq and the amount of voting it may prevent which is why he mentioned the other areas. He was not saying we should focus on areas without violence, yet that it is not as bad as swami makes it appear. I guess you didn't understand why snoop said what he did so you thought he was just trying to divert the debate which he wasn't. Because you talked about Baghdad and made that comparison with LA then mentioned "all the other areas are irrelevant" i thought you meant everything outside of Baghdad is irrelevant. Not that every place where violence isn't occurring is irrelevant which is what you meant. This is why i made my comments.

Quote:


Yet another irrelevant straw man argument. The fact that the insurgency could be worse does not matter so long as it is bad enough to prevent a large portion of the population from voting.




Wow you compleatly missed what i was saying. I started a completely separate train of thought on violence in Iraq and how it would affect elections. Can i do this in the same post as other stuff or should i have to make a separate post just to make it clear?

Also whether people choose to vote on jan 30th is their decision. The only people who will have been prevented from voting are those killed by insurgents which i hope will be as few as possible. (although any killings of the sort should make the insurgency look worse)


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang

Edited by d33p (01/26/05 08:53 PM)

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Braveheart Bush [Re: Swami]
    #3686360 - 01/26/05 10:45 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Summation:

1. Iraqi voters have been "reassured" that voting will be safe despite the fact that three candidates were killed last week.

2. Long-time (Iraqi) Americans can vote for the candidates/parties that will best help America.

3. NO ISSUES, let me repeat this: NO ISSUES have been publicly discussed.

4. The candidates in general, have nothing published as to what they stand for.

5. Each Iraqi gets ONE vote for an ENTIRE party, not individuals nor issues.

6. Basically, this is a form of census, not an election. If I am a Shi'ite, I will vote for the local Shi'ite party. End-of-story.

Even though this is meaningless, it is somehow lauded as a landmark action and may well lead to further civil unrest.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleRavus
Not an EggshellWalker
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
Re: Braveheart Bush [Re: Swami]
    #3686498 - 01/26/05 11:02 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

The Iraqis and Arabs have often spoken as under the knowledge that this election doesn't really mean anything. It is, however, reassuring to the American people, as it's finally something they can relate to amid all the violence and wars without reasons, so they cling onto it and say, "Look, we're making progress! We may be losing marines everyday, and seeing constant violence, and insurgents may be as common as ever, but look, they can vote if they're foolhardy enough to risk the carbombs and terrorists near the polling stations!"


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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OfflineSWEDEN
Miracle of Science

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 2,577
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: Braveheart Bush [Re: Swami]
    #3686505 - 01/26/05 11:02 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Well look at Germany and Japan! They were once facist dictatorships, and now America has helped transform them into shining exaples of democracy! If it worked for them, eventually it will work for Iraq... won't it?

(This has been a leading question by SWEDEN)


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Offline13eetleJuice
the ghost with the most
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/28/04
Posts: 2,253
Loc: 6' under pushin up shroom...
Last seen: 5 years, 4 months
Re: Braveheart Bush [Re: SWEDEN]
    #3686588 - 01/26/05 11:13 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

And in other news...

I believe it was CNN that conducted a poll of the Iraqi people and the results were that more than half of them didn't know exactly what they were voting for. Most think they are voting for a new ruler to take Saddam's place when in fact they are voting for a congressional body to begin writing new laws that will govern the country under the new system.


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