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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
How to proceed with guitar learning?
    #3673430 - 01/24/05 07:22 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I have some guitar questions.

I know a few scales. Unfortunately, I find myself confined to a 4 fret area when I solo on a scale. I would like to open up the fret board more when I solo. I am torn between two philosophies when it comes to doing this.

Philosophy #1 Tying finger patterns together:

Let?s say I am doing a major pentatonic scale in the key of C (I will include all notes in a particular scale in my diagrams?not just from the root to the next octave):

---------------------------------5--8------
--------------------------5--8-------------
--------------------5--7-------------------
-------------5--7--------------------------
-------5--7--------------------------------
-5--8--------------------------------------

This pattern covers frets 5,6,7, and 8.

The notes in the major pentatonic scale in the key of C are C, D, E, G, A. I can move up, down, and sideways on this first fingering pattern very quickly all day long.

Now if I move three frets down so that I am ?tied in? by one fret to the original scale, the finger pattern for the pentatonic major in the key of C is:

----------------------------------3--5
----------------------------3--5------
---------------------2--5-------------
--------------2--5--------------------
--------3--5--------------------------
-3--5---------------------------------

This pattern covers frets 2,3,4, and 5.

If I move up two frets from my original pentatonic major scale fingering pattern I have this fingering pattern for the pentatonic major in C:

---------------------------------------8--10--
-------------------------------8--10----------
-------------------------7--9-----------------
-----------------7--10------------------------
----------7--10-------------------------------
--8--10---------------------------------------

This pattern covers frets 7,8,9, 10.

As you can see it is quite easy to make fingering patterns that fit together and that manage to hit all of the notes in a scale. It is not too much of a challenge to make enough finger patterns to cover twelve frets, which means that every note in that scale everywhere on the fret board can be played.

My only worry with this technique is that it will ?box me in?. I am worried that I will only use those fingering patterns and be incapable of going in between those patterns. For example, I would be able to play the pentatonic major in C if I started on fret 5 or fret 2, but what if I wanted to jump around on frets 3,4,5, and 6? Would me being used to the 2,3,4,5 and the 5,6,7,8 patterns confuse my brain when I was playing if I tried to play outside of those finger patterns?

Philosophy #2 Knowing all of the notes in the key of the scale that I am playing:

This concept is pretty easy in theory. It would require that I learn the fret board very well(by looking at a fret and a string I would immediately know which note it was?as of now I have to sit there and think about it for a second). I would then decide what scale to play and in what key. I would have to memorize all of the notes of the scale in that key. The amount of memorization required for this technique would be massive. Imagine learning all of the notes for 10 different scales in every key. That would be 120 different variations I would have to remember. It doesn?t sound terribly efficient.

So basically, I am wondering if I should memorize finger patterns or the particular notes in a scale. I need to pursue the one that will be most amiable to improvisation and habit. I don?t want to have to stop and think about where I need to go next. I?m thinking that philosophy #1 is the better one. Because I could just see myself hesitating while I was thinking, ?ok?I am playing the major pentatonic in this key so I have to only play these notes and where is that note..? etc?To me it seems as if the finger patterns would allow for easier learning and quicker playing. ?There would be no thinking involved with the finger patterns I think.

Any help on how I should progress in my learning would be greatly appreciated.


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Invisiblenewusername222
Stranger
Male
Registered: 08/14/03
Posts: 3,079
Re: How to proceed with guitar learning? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3673450 - 01/24/05 07:27 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Free online guitar lessons at:

http://www.cyberfret.com/index.php

You can learn everything you need to get you going on that site.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: How to proceed with guitar learning? [Re: newusername222]
    #3673506 - 01/24/05 07:40 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

The thing is, I already know a lot about guitar. I know a bunch of chords and scales. I am fast with both my left and right hands. I have just never gotten around to moving up and down the fretboard when playing a scale. I don't need lessons...I need someone who is experienced and who will tell me the best way to learn it.

But, nonetheless, thanks for the link. I will check it out.


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Invisiblenewusername222
Stranger
Male
Registered: 08/14/03
Posts: 3,079
Re: How to proceed with guitar learning? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3673534 - 01/24/05 07:47 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I'm kinda in the basics learning mode still. Have been for way too long and need to get more serious about it. That site has a forum where I bet you can get answers more readily than here but I'm sure there are others here who can help you out given time. Good luck bro.


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Offlinestefan
work in progress

Registered: 04/11/01
Posts: 8,932
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 4 months, 24 days
Re: How to proceed with guitar learning? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3676011 - 01/25/05 04:24 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I'd say you learn one of those seperate patterns at a time (like the parts of the major pentatonic in C you posted) practice each a few days and later put them all together :thumbup:


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Offlineblaze2
The Witness
Male

Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 1,883
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
Re: How to proceed with guitar learning? [Re: stefan]
    #3681562 - 01/26/05 03:36 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Learn Scale Shapes, know where the root notes are and move the root notes to whatever note you want your scale to be for instance the standard pentatonic scale the root apears on the low E string for both major and minor(they are shaped exactly the same) all you have to do is know the notes on teh low E string so you can tell where to put the scale. From there you memorize the SHAPE of the scale.

The pentatonic can be divided up into a bunch of "boxes". This is what you are stuck in and why you only go up and down the strings not up and down the neck. Learn the "boxes" on either side of the main pentatonic box then start to experiment with differnt ways to transition between them. once you have those down add the next two on either side of the first two.

All scales repeat after twelve frets. If half of a "box" is cut off at your last fret. those notes will apear up at the nut(obviously not the same pitch, the shape will recycle up there is what i mean)

Now if you want to read sheet music you need to learn the notes on the entire fretboard(maybe not the whole thing but the more you know the easier it is) I play classical guitar primarily, and tabs can only take you so far. To learn the notes and how to read sheet music i bought a work book. It tells you that this note on the staff is this fret on this string and you sit there and copy it down and fill in the blanks they give you. This may seem dull and like "school work" but its the repitition that makes it work. It took me a week to work through the book(it only covered the notes up to the 5th fret), but i was reading sheet music in one week. It took me considerably longer to understand the rythems, but at least i knew where to put my fingers.

Hope i helped some. peace

blaze2


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Offlinestefan
work in progress

Registered: 04/11/01
Posts: 8,932
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 4 months, 24 days
Re: How to proceed with guitar learning? [Re: blaze2]
    #3682070 - 01/26/05 08:06 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

you put it so much better into words than I did :thumbup:


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OfflineFocusHawaii
Keeper of theMagic Garden

Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 1,013
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
Re: How to proceed with guitar learning? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3684021 - 01/26/05 06:04 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

You'll learn a lot more about the guitar if you memorize the fretboard. There are a lot of tricks you'll find as you go along that will aid this immensely. I suggest getting a metronome (or anything that keeps a beat i.e. a clock) and choose a note, say A for instance; then, while keeping the beat, play each the note you've selected on each string. Knowing the fretboard is crucial.

Second, you need to learn intervals. Intervals are the size of the step between each note i.e. C to G is a perfect fift C-F is a perfect fourth. If you know music theory then all you need to do is start noticing where the intervals occur when you play the major scale and everything fits nicely. If you don't know music theory you can search the internet or buy the book "Elementary Rudiments of Music" by Barbarra Wharam; I warn you, this book is all about rote so you do an insane amount of writing for one concept but once you've done it it will stick.

Finally, you should learn all the different "boxes" to the particular type of scale. You'll notice that depending on which box you use and where you use it the root of the scale will be different. This allows you to solo almost anywhere and over any chord progression that fits. Once you've learned all the different shapes of the scale you'll be able to start extending from one scale to the next all the way up and down the neck. So learn all of them and practice them!

This kind of stuff doesn't happen over night, hell I haven't mastered everything I'm talking about, but keep at it and you'll improve on the guitar quite a bit.


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