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Invisibleblacksabbathrulz
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Hypothetical question about oil/alternate fuel
    #3682027 - 01/26/05 07:05 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Suppose today, some scientist had a stroke of genius, in which he discovered an alternate fuel source not only more efficient than oil, but much cheaper, produced no emissions, and was extremely cheap to implement. Granted this would never happen, but just suppose it did. What do you think the impact on the economy would be? The impact on global politics? etc.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Hypothetical question about oil/alternate fuel [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #3682061 - 01/26/05 08:00 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Just out of interest why do you think this would never happen?

I personally think it would be hard for an invention such as this to catch on in the current climate due to the level of addiction the world has to burning oil. Its like when you offer a nicorette patch to a smoker, most arent really interested.
The global brain doesnt seem ready to give up smoking yet...when it finally does you may be surprised at how quickly the sort of technology you dismiss appears.

spelling.


Edited by GazzBut (01/26/05 08:08 AM)


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Invisibleblacksabbathrulz
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Re: Hypothetical question about oil/alternate fuel [Re: GazzBut]
    #3682373 - 01/26/05 11:16 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

GazzBut said:
Just out of interest why do you think this would never happen?

I personally think it would be hard for an invention such as this to catch on in the current climate due to the level of addiction the world has to burning oil. Its like when you offer a nicorette patch to a smoker, most arent really interested.
The global brain doesnt seem ready to give up smoking yet...when it finally does you may be surprised at how quickly the sort of technology you dismiss appears.

spelling.




I don't think it would happen, because I really don't foresee us finding a more efficient fuel than oil, let alone a more cost effective one. However I think if this was discovered, it would most likely be bought and buried by oil companies.


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InvisiblePaou
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Re: Hypothetical question about oil/alternate fuel [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #3682409 - 01/26/05 11:35 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

blacksabbathrulz said:
Suppose today, some scientist had a stroke of genius, in which he discovered an alternate fuel source not only more efficient than oil, but much cheaper, produced no emissions, and was extremely cheap to implement. Granted this would never happen, but just suppose it did. What do you think the impact on the economy would be? The impact on global politics? etc.



Actually, it's practically already here. It's called biodiesel. As for the impact, the impact is for oil companies to lobby Washington not to use this fuel source and instead continue with the status quo. Of course, when I say it's cheaper, I'm taking into account the cost of our foreign policy which serves the interests of the oil industry.


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OfflineJ4S0N
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Re: Hypothetical question about oil/alternate fuel [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #3682641 - 01/26/05 12:48 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Such an energy does exist, its called electricity. When Tesla came to America and discovered AC power, and how to generate it, he also discovered how to transmit wireless electricity using the earth's atmosphere. All you need to do was place a wire in the ground. The technology never got up and running because there was no way to meter it (make money from it). So his tower was destroyed. This was a hundred years ago, imagine if the world had free energy a hundred years ago. What a different world it would be.

This is not made up either, just do some research on this man. He was a true genius.


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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: Hypothetical question about oil/alternate fuel [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #3683303 - 01/26/05 03:44 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

It's called ethanol. When you burn ethanol you are left with CO2 and H2O.


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Offlinephi1618
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Re: Hypothetical question about oil/alternate fuel [Re: SoopaX]
    #3683512 - 01/26/05 04:21 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Ethanol takes more energy to produce than it releases:
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/031128.html

The world's fat production isn't currently high enough to convert the economy entirely to biodiesel; also, modern intensive agriculture practices require large amounts of fertilizer and pestisides. Fertilizer in particular has disruptive environmental effects and requires alot of energy to produce. However, unlike ethanol, biodiesel has some potential as a fuel source.

Most electricity is generated using coal, a fossil fuel.


If a scientist figured out how to use water, for instance, as a safe and effective fuel, I think it would change the world. I doubt even the oil companies could keep a lid on something so huge, though some might try. Lots of people would lose money, but most people's quality of life would improve. It might even lead to a nominal and temporary contraction in the economy, because less goods would need to be bought and sold. This would quickly be countered by the lowered price of commerce and trade. We'd still have plenty of problems, but it would relieve alot of them.


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Offlinei_rage_against
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Re: Hypothetical question about oil/alternate fuel [Re: phi1618]
    #3683568 - 01/26/05 04:31 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Car and Fuel companies are currently working on different types of effecient and burnable (no to mention renewable) alcohols, actually some grain alcohols are proving to be very effectient. The reason car and fuel companies have become so involved with this is because geologists have figured that with the amount of resource and reserve oil left on our planet we have less than 50 years worth of oil left if we continue to spend it the way we are currently. That said, ride a bike, sister earth like that best anyway.


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Offlined33p
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Re: Hypothetical question about oil/alternate fuel [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #3683755 - 01/26/05 05:01 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Well once a stable form of element 116 can be mass produced and the 2nd law of thermodynamics broken all will be peachy.

And if something like that was produced the inventor and anyone who knew of it would vanish.


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Offlinecb9fl
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Re: Hypothetical question about oil/alternate fuel [Re: d33p]
    #3683804 - 01/26/05 05:09 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Isn't element 116 Unobtanium?


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Hypothetical question about oil/alternate fuel [Re: J4S0N]
    #3683813 - 01/26/05 05:10 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

This is not made up either*, just do some research on this man. He was a true genius.

* By you.

If you do some research on this man, you will find a lot of people who claim this is true.

You will not find any with proof.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
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Offlined33p
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Re: Hypothetical question about oil/alternate fuel [Re: cb9fl]
    #3683950 - 01/26/05 05:47 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

cb9fl said:
Isn't element 116 Unobtanium?




Woops my mystake i meant element 115.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Hypothetical question about oil/alternate fuel [Re: cb9fl]
    #3684129 - 01/26/05 06:33 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

"Unobtanium." Fucking priceless.


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: Hypothetical question about oil/alternate fuel [Re: J4S0N]
    #3684150 - 01/26/05 06:43 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

J4S0N said:
Such an energy does exist, its called electricity. When Tesla came to America and discovered AC power, and how to generate it, he also discovered how to transmit wireless electricity using the earth's atmosphere. All you need to do was place a wire in the ground.




Yes, it's called "Magnetic Induction" and has been well known and used before Tesla came about. It's the principal behind electric motors and alternators/generators. Also, EM power transmission is very inefficient.

Quote:

The technology never got up and running because there was no way to meter it (make money from it). So his tower was destroyed. This was a hundred years ago, imagine if the world had free energy a hundred years ago. What a different world it would be.




Er..how do make the leap from your first statement to "free energy"? There ain't no such thing, I'm afraid. The closest we can ever hope to come is to perfect atomic fusion, and even that won't be "free"
Quote:

This is not made up either, just do some research on this man. He was a true genius.




I'm certainly not disputing the fact that the man was a genius in his time, but technology has moved beyond Tesla's discoveries....


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Offlinephi1618
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Re: Hypothetical question about oil/alternate fuel [Re: i_rage_against]
    #3684202 - 01/26/05 06:57 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

i_rage_against said:
Car and Fuel companies are currently working on different types of effecient and burnable (no to mention renewable) alcohols, actually some grain alcohols are proving to be very effectient. The reason car and fuel companies have become so involved with this is because geologists have figured that with the amount of resource and reserve oil left on our planet we have less than 50 years worth of oil left if we continue to spend it the way we are currently. That said, ride a bike, sister earth like that best anyway.




The reason companies are working on alcohol fuel projects is that they recieve government subsidies.
Growing grain requires energy to make fertilizer and pestisides, to power farm equipment, and to transport the grain. Distilling alcohol requires energy. Add up all the imputs to make alcohol, subtract the amount of energy you get from burning it, and you get a positive number; that is, you lose energy. Alcohol is a fine fuel; it's just more expensive (monetarily and environmentally) per unit energy than gasoline.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Hypothetical question about oil/alternate fuel [Re: J4S0N]
    #3687836 - 01/27/05 11:17 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Electricity is just a form of energy, it does not create energy. Energy has to come from somewhere, usually the sun.

All fossil fuels are solar energy that was collected and concentrated by living organisms millions of years ago. There is no such thing as free energy.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Hypothetical question about oil/alternate fuel [Re: phi1618]
    #3687848 - 01/27/05 11:20 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

The reason ethanol is economically unfeasable is because only simple carbohydrates can be used to make ethanol. Most chemical energy in plants is in the form of cellulose, which is a complex carbohydrate, which until recently could not be made into ethanol.

Some company recently found a way to break down cellulose into simpler carbohydrates which can be fermented into ethanol.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Hypothetical question about oil/alternate fuel [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #3687855 - 01/27/05 11:23 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

If you want to stop using petroleum, you can get a diesel vehicle, and convert it to run on straight vegetable oil. The cheapest source of bought vegetable oil that I have found is $3 a gallon at Sam's Club.


Or you can buy a $400 filter that will clean waste vegetable oil good enough to burn in your vehicle. You can then usually find free sources of waste vegetable oil from restaraunts, which usually have to pay people to haul it away for them.


www.greasel.com


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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: Hypothetical question about oil/alternate fuel [Re: phi1618]
    #3688211 - 01/27/05 01:16 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Read B_H's post about enzymes producing ethanol. Ethanol isn't that hard to produce, it's just that petroleum formed ethanol, for some odd reason, isn't accepted for consumption or burning. It's the grain growers $ versus the oil producers $.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Hypothetical question about oil/alternate fuel [Re: SoopaX]
    #3690193 - 01/27/05 09:12 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I'd rather give my $ to farmers than the oil industry and terrorist states.


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